Prosecuted without Railcard when onboard.

[Aerofantastic9]

Background:

I boarded a train with a ticket which was valid with only a 16-25 Railcard. Unfortunately the only problem was that I didn't have my railcard with me at the time. The thing is I thought I had it, and always check before I set off anywhere. Later I find out that it was in another bag of mine (long story, not necessary)

So essentially, I boarded a train from Brighton to London Kings Cross Station. All was good until I was asked for my ticket with railcard and I frantically looking through all my lugagge for the railcard. I was then handed this notice, I was relieved at how lenient the conductor was and thanked him because I genuinely forget it:

Anyways, I then sent the letter with my railcard stating the number to the address.

With the following letter and attached railcard photocopy.

I've cut some of the information for privacy, however it's most definitely mine. And you can see that it still has 1 month till expiration which means that I had it even before the incident, and valid! (Mod note - see attached)

About 2 months later I was given a letter from the prosecution office as shown below:

So now I'm wondering what I said wrong or did wrong that my letter wasn't accepted and second is that what can I do about my situation now.

I'm really sorry for the long post but I just wanted to clear everything out before, because I'm really scared and upset about this and hoping for this to not lead me in going to court.

Thank you all so much for reading and hoping for some great insights to my dilemma.

P.S. If there's anything needing more clarification please don't hesitate to ask. Honestly anything!

 

[bb21]

Were you told by the RPI to just send in your Railcard and all would be fine on that day? From what I can see, there is nothing on the slip of paper you were given to indicate that the matter would be resolved by simply supplying your Railcard afterwards. The paper refers to season tickets which were forgotten at home, which most train companies make an allowance for for a number of occasions within a given time period. The same does not normally apply to Railcards.

What conversation took place between you and the RPI on the day of the incident?

I can't see what the letter from the train company says as it is too small.

(PS I have taken the liberty to block out your personal information on the Railcard as I don't think it is wise to leave that on a public forum.)

 

[MikeWh]

It looks to me like the RPI showed discretion but the prosecution department have either overruled him or not realised what he was trying to do. I can't see why a season ticket form would even be filled in for this scenario. Surely a UPFN would be more appropriate documentation? It's also unusual for a case to be sent to court without first asking for the passengers side of the story. If this really is all the correspondence and there is no previous history then it appears as if there has been a breakdown in the system.

I'm not qualified to suggest how to proceed, but hopefully someone else will be along who can help.

 

[najaB]

Hi,

Could you either upload a larger scan of the letter, or transcribe it into a post as the image you've attached is too small to be legible.

Thanks.

 

[185]

The letter from the TOC mentions FCC - (travel was in June 2014) but could have been sent by a prosecutions company. I can see Julia Burgess, FCC, Kings Cross Prosecutions unit & letter demands attendance at Crawley Magistrates.

 

[tony6499]

It's a tear off slip of a Travel Irregularity Report that the OP has been given, so the Conductor who issued it has submitted the report of what has happened and the 'powers that be' have then issued the letter as appropriate which is too small to read

 

[swt_passenger]

This scenario is fairly common in these forums. People get mixed up because the relevant section on the form is designed for a season ticket being forgotten, for which there is a published procedure; but this doesn't apply to missing railcards.

Perhaps the 'fail to carry' section should be suitably amended.

 

[MikeWh]

This scenario is fairly common in these forums. People get mixed up because the relevant section on the form is designed for a season ticket being forgotten, for which there is a published procedure; but this doesn't apply to missing railcards.

Perhaps the 'fail to carry' section should be suitably amended.

OK. It still sems strange that there has been no "what is your side of the story" letter? Unless the OP has ignored it?

 

[furlong]

So is it your position that?

1) The rail company made a verbal agreement with you that the matter would be resolved amicably if you sent in a copy of your railcard and the company has reneged on this? (If it went to a court hearing you might call the employee as a witness to confirm this?)

2) You did send in the railcard immediately?

It strikes me as odd for a company that is aware of this to pursue a prosecution in these circumstances, as there must be a risk that the court would opt for a discharge and make the company bear all the costs.

Can you prove that you really sent this important letter, and you're not instead now just wishing you had? If you're confident on the telephone, you could call the company to check that they received it and that they were aware of the agreement and try to negotiate a settlement out-of-court.

But otherwise at this stage, I think you ought to seek professional legal advice from a local defence solicitor who could make this call for you and if need be, represent you in court.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
However, if the employee did not instruct you to send in your railcard, then your position is much weaker, but you might still be able to negotiate a settlement with the company out-of-court, reimbursing them for their costs in pursuing you, as you will see if you read some of the other threads in this forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, was the railcard not signed?

 

[Aerofantastic9]

SUCCESS!

I took furlong's advice and gave them a call, they've told me that they don't have anything on the database and that I should send my railcard photocopy through email and the case will be closed.

thank you all for comments, I'm so sorry for any inconvenience caused.

In any case, basically the conductor asked for my ticket and railcard, told me that I should send a photocopy of my railcard to that address and I know the slip says Season ticket, but it was for a railcard pass.
No I wasn't given a letter which would ask for my side of the story before the prosecution.
Just for clarification, he asked for my railcard to be sent not a season ticket (even though the slips states otherwise).

If anyone wants anymore info on the case again don't hesitate to ask!

 

[Clip]

Ahh sounds like a good result - I couldnt really read the letter but glad that the outcome is favourable to you.

 

[bb21]

All sounds a bit messy but i am glad that that it worked out for you in the way you were told.

 

[ainsworth74]

SUCCESS!

I took furlong's advice and gave them a call, they've told me that they don't have anything on the database and that I should send my railcard photocopy through email and the case will be closed.

thank you all for comments, I'm so sorry for any inconvenience caused.

No inconvenience it's what we in this sub-forum are here for. I'm glad you got such a positive outcome but of course the key thing to take away from this is not to do it again! They're unlikely to be as lenient a second time around

 

[Haywain]

No inconvenience it's what we in this sub-forum are here for. I'm glad you got such a positive outcome but of course the key thing to take away from this is not to do it again! They're unlikely to be as lenient a second time around

It's worth mentioning that most other TOCs would not be so lenient either.

 

[furlong]

Make sure the railcard is signed.

 

[Aerofantastic9]

No inconvenience it's what we in this sub-forum are here for. I'm glad you got such a positive outcome but of course the key thing to take away from this is not to do it again! They're unlikely to be as lenient a second time around

Yeah ofcourse, first and last time (hopefully).

It's worth mentioning that most other TOCs would not be so lenient either.

Yeah suppose I got lucky, I'm always very cautious and would never test my luck in these scenarios.

Make sure the railcard is signed.

Yeah can't believe my signature on the railcard got overlooked, I never noticed and nor was I told for it to be signed when purchasing it.
Thanks for the advice, I've rectified it.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!

 

[RJ]

Make sure the railcard is signed.

That's what I was going to say - I get every single person who buys one from me to sign. I don't sell discounted tickets unless the railcard is signed, seems there are many clerks out there who can't be arsed to send customers away with a valid railcard.

 

[DelayRepay]

Does the signature actually get checked? I would have thought the photo was more important in confirming that the card was held by the genuine owner? Or does the signature on the card indicate acceptance of the T&Cs?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Does the signature actually get checked? I would have thought the photo was more important in confirming that the card was held by the genuine owner? Or does the signature on the card indicate acceptance of the T&Cs?

Firstly, many Railcards do not include a photo.

Secondly, it would be more correct to say that by writing the holder's signature satisfies one of the Conditions, rather than implying that doing so indicates acceptance. Without the holder's signature, the discount is not applicable - because the signature is a condition.

 

[reb0118]

That's what I was going to say - I get every single person who buys one from me to sign. I don't sell discounted tickets unless the railcard is signed, seems there are many clerks out there who can't be arsed to send customers away with a valid railcard.

Another gold star for RJ!

I always make a point of getting folk to sign their railcards' when I find unsigned ones on the train. Now don't get me started on unsigned debit cards.........

 

[RJ]

Does the signature actually get checked? I would have thought the photo was more important in confirming that the card was held by the genuine owner? Or does the signature on the card indicate acceptance of the T&Cs?

Yes, it does. I had an EMT RPI attempt to withdraw my railcard and accompanying ticket and sell a new one for a mere £74 because he thought my railcard wasn't signed. Unfortunately for him, it was signed, he just wasn't able to see it under the light. Anyhow, I share that cautionary tale with railcard holders who exclaim that they've never been asked to sign their card before, which hopefully demonstrates the merits of having a clearly signed railcard.

 

[furlong]

SUCCESS!
I should send my railcard photocopy through email and the case will be closed.

Now, make sure you get some sort of emailed or written confirmation once this has happened. Then I suggest you contact the court yourself, e.g. phoning them to make sure a note is made and sending them a copy. If the prosecutions team didn't register your original response, paperwork has already gone astray once, so take it upon yourself to make sure that the court is aware the matter has been resolved out-of-court and provide a phone number so they can contact you quickly if need be.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does the signature actually get checked?

Only occasionally in my experience. I'd be using a 16-25 Railcard for about six months, unsigned (by accident), before an XC guard picked up on it and told me to make sure I sign it when I got home (which I did!).

 

[bnm]

Crikey. I've just checked my current Railcard which expires this month and I'd not signed it!

So, for 11 months I've been travelling (and I do a LOT of rail travel) with invalid tickets.

 

[island]

SUCCESS!

I took furlong's advice and gave them a call, they've told me that they don't have anything on the database and that I should send my railcard photocopy through email and the case will be closed.

thank you all for comments, I'm so sorry for any inconvenience caused.

In any case, basically the conductor asked for my ticket and railcard, told me that I should send a photocopy of my railcard to that address and I know the slip says Season ticket, but it was for a railcard pass.
No I wasn't given a letter which would ask for my side of the story before the prosecution.
Just for clarification, he asked for my railcard to be sent not a season ticket (even though the slips states otherwise).

If anyone wants anymore info on the case again don't hesitate to ask!

Make sure you obtain a letter from them confirming the case has been closed and the prosecution will not be taken forward, and that a copy of the letter gets sent to the court in question.

 

[tixy]

I think Areofantastic9 was lucky from initial meeting with the RPI. FCC ( at that time) runs a PF scheme and was surprised that a TIR was filled with advise to send the railcard in. This would have been a closed door £20 PFN as the ticket was not valid full stop. Although this was a good result for the OP we need to stipulate this is a rare occasion and normally there would be a penalty to pay if you forget your railcard. So advice to all is check for your railcard when at the TVM, just as you would be asked at the ticket office. And don't get a discounted ticket, if you don't have it in your hand as you purchase. It could have been much worse.

 

[Andrewlong]

I have been using my Network railcard without having signed it for months. When issued, the ticket office didn't prompt me to sign it. Have done so now!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I have been using my Network railcard without having signed it for months. When issued, the ticket office didn't prompt me to sign it. Have done so now!

Likewise, with me! Why, when the Railcard is being printed, don't ticket clerks use those few seconds to remind the purchaser that the Railcard must be signed before first use? :?
Most folk would readily sign it there and then, to eliminate the possibility of forgetting to do it later.

 

[Starmill]

Likewise, with me! Why, when the Railcard is being printed, don't ticket clerks use those few seconds to remind the purchaser that the Railcard must be signed before first use? :?
Most folk would readily sign it there and then, to eliminate the possibility of forgetting to do it later.

Ticket office staff who are taking care with what they are doing at the time of serving people will usually offer a pen and ask for it to be signed right there. I used to have to get mine reprinted once a fortnight because it faded so quickly, though I now have one of the new more durable ones which does not suffer so.

 

[mailbyrail]

I'm a relatively new holder of a Senior Railcard and I've never been asked to show it on board with my ticket, yet ticket holders close by with tickets bought with a Young Persons Railcards are regularly asked for their cards. I've used it on at least half a dozen train companies all with the same result. I've always had the card and am now deliberately waiting to see how many more trips before I'm asked for it.