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Western RUS draft out for consultation
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Whats wrong with Banbury?
Shunts at Oxford with trains terminating from Banbury and the same from London. Why not join the service groups up?
Additonally I think its been mentioned in the Chiltern thread about their proposed new timetable that they don't seem keen to serve Stratford Upon Avon so why not extend some of the fast Oxfords to / from Stratford? Thats another load of shunts removed.
swt_passenger
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Oxford will be the electrification boundary in the timescales they are discussing. The DMU Banbury stopper will presumably have nothing useful to join up with. Perhaps they should transfer it to Chiltern, who'll have a nice big DMU depot at Banbury by then...
Just as a comment on the approach to these studies (not this Banbury discussion in particular), it would be not sensible to envisage route improvements by thinking in terms of present franchise boundaries. I see the same issues with the mindset of SWT and FGW boundaries in this study. There has to be a regional borderline to a regional study, but 'no man is an island'.
This is particularly true of transport. E.g. people travel from Banbury to Bournemouth, not take a trip on XC or SWT.
swt_passenger
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Reading to Gatwick is discussed in this study, also at some length in the Southern study just published, and both of those mention that the possibility of electrification will be discussed in both the SW study (yet to be published) and the renewed electrification study.
In a different example like the West of England Mainline, I'd expect most detail to be given in the SW route study, as 95% of the route is in the NR Wessex area. Then with the short section at the Exeter end (mainly regarding shorter distance stopping services across Exeter) being covered in the GW route study as we've already seen.
HarleyDavidson
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I had to laugh when I saw some of the crass suggestions about services to Bedwyn & such like, when Oxford & the Midlands are a far more advantageous target for services to/from Gatwick & South Coast.
I read those suggestions in the view of removing the need for so many trains to terminate at Reading. However the report does say that linking two services from either side of Reading may require the need to undertake a timetable recase over a large area (i.e. even the author doesn't sound that sure or was told to write it and so put in something to cover their back).
It's interesting that you pick out the later date for the North of England RS; in the copy of the plan I have (dated 02/01/2014) it was due to be started in mid-June 2014, and be delivered in mid-April 2016. I am guessing that it has been pushed back in connection with the future involvement of Rail North being taken into account.
Doctor Fegg
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Not even that, I'm afraid; it's just been deprioritised and looks unlikely to happen at all.
No, it has not been deprioritised, the councils sought funding from the government but the A40-A44 link road was not near the top of their wishlist, so was knocked back this time round.
See http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/archive..._too_low_priority__to_be_given___12m_funding/
The rolling stock assumptions page doesn't seem to cover every service (eg. no Cardiff-Portsmouth), but suggests 158s would be used on a Suburban stopping service across Exeter. What are the details of this service (origin, destination, journey time etc.)?
158s on the Barnstaple to Axminster services.
It has been a (very well known) secret for quite a while now.
Oh just to stop this thread being infested with the boring old stuff.
This service will be run by FGW, there is absolutely no suggestion that it will be operated by SWT using portion working off the Waterloo to Exeter services, it is and always has been intended that FGW will operate these services with their rolling stock.
What about the Exmouth branch? That would appear to fit into the Exter suburban category.
Makes sense for an Axminster-Exeter/Barnstable service to be Great Western, since Axminster is closer to Exeter than Salisbury. There would have to be some pretty serious operational reasons to give it to SWT.
I don't like the idea of using 158s on it though, sounds like a waste of 158s to me. Barnstable to Exeter is perhaps a bit too long a journey to do on a 150, but 158 dwell times aren't ideal for lots of stops. They make sense on the Cambrian coast line but only because they then have a good run through to Shrewsbury/Birmingham with only a few stops. Is that the sort of thing this consultation is for?
Paignton to Exmouth goes half hourly (they are looking at making Exmouth 3 an hour but it would need a lot of track/signalling alterations) so longer trains looks to be the way forward.
Barnstaple gets 2 trains an hour, a fast to Axminster (calling Eggesford, Crediton plus one other station I cant remember) and a stopper to Exeter calling at all the small stations.
These are what is being talked about in the messroom so please take with a pinch of salt but it does seem reasonable.
I would be very surprised if Barnstaple gets two an hour (maybe as far as Crediton will). A major infrastructure upgrade would be needed as the only loops are at Crediton and Eggesford (with half an hour current journey time between Crediton and Eggesford and 24 mins (down) & 29 mins (up) Eggesford - Barnstaple both by limited stop trains, hourly is barely possible).
If such a major upgrade was done (and I think that is in flying pig territory) then it would make it even more likely that the fast services to Axminster would be run as an extension of the service operarted by those who also operate numerous class 455s and shalt not be mentioned......
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Rather than running all services to Barnstaple, could there not be an option (at least early on to limit the level or works which need doing at the outset) to run some services to Okehampton?
Then, once passenger numbers beyond the junction justify it, the extra works can then be undertaken.
The RUS is looking at schemes for up to the early 2040's so not everything needs to be done in one go.
It's Barnstaple. I see the natural tendency to think of horses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally should we not be referring to the 'WRS' and not a RUS?
Most of the passengers are from Barnstaple, running half hourly to Crediton achieves nothing.
It is rather an odd line as the vast majority of passengers go from one end to the other with very little intermediate travel which is why the solutions also appear odd (at first).
Its a very nice ride out though especially on a 143 with its big windows, there are some lovely views.
It is rather an odd line as the vast majority of passengers go from one end to the other with very little intermediate travel which is why the solutions also appear odd (at first).
Its a very nice ride out though especially on a 143 with its big windows, there are some lovely views.
CC 72100
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Agreed on all counts - very nice journey, not too slow in places either. I've often been the only person to alight & board at Crediton.
I am sure I will be your driver at some stage!
I will leave you to decide if that is a good or a bad thing!
David St John Thomas did a study of that line in the '60s and recommended that most intermediate stations were closed and a faster service to Ilfracombe/Bideford was run instead, dividing/joining at Barnstaple.
On the Ilfracombe and Bideford lines most users were people who went to Exeter and beyond as the buses were more convenient frequent and cheap for those who went to Barnstaple. Unfortunately after the line transferred to BR western region they managed to lose most of the Exeter passengers (and damn nearly did for the Barnstaple line as well) by pegging trains at Exeter St Davids (after a slow all stations run) for several years instead of Central (where Exmouth services terminated), meaning a long walk up the hill to the City Centre.
The only intermediate stations that seem to see significant intermediate use are Crediton (pop 6,800) , Umberleigh (a.k.a. Torrington and South Molton Parkway) and Eggesford (for Chumleigh pop 1,308). I think there is talk of running buses between Torrington and South Molton via Umberleigh station, whether it will ever happen remains
I think Bideford is still in long term reopening aspirations, but can't see it happening when Stagecoach run a bus (21/21A) there from Barnstaple Station forecourt every 10 minutes with a journey time of less than 30 minutes, especially as the station was the wrong side of the river in East the Water.
Stagecoach have massively improved the buses since they took over the routes from First North Devon a couple of years ago. They run a through service 21/21A from Ilfracombe (every 20 mins) and Braunton (every 10 mins) to Bideford (every 10 mins) and Westward Ho/Appledore (each every 20 mins) all calling at Barnstaple Station, with half hourly evening services running up to approx 23.00 even on Sundays. http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_37279_21, 21A.pdf
The now defunct First North Devon service ran separate services (more infrequently in most cases - basically its gone from every 15 minutes/30 minutes to every 10/20 minutes) 1&2 to Bideford Appledore/Westward Ho and (3) to Ilfracombe. None, bar one journey a day mon -fri served Barnstaple Station http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/service/North_Deven_booklet_V6_FINAL.pdf
Stagecoach are now very well dug in at both ends of the Barnstaple line......
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Ash Bridge
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Out of interest, what would the journey times have been between Barnstaple Junc.- Bideford after the dmu's took over from steam haulage, 20-25 mins?
In 1965, the last year before it shut, DMU times were 20-23 minutes. Trains terminated at Barnstaple, except one to Salisbury and two to Taunton via South Molton See table 71 here: http://www.timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=12§ion_id=15
Its only since Stagecoach took over a couple of years ago though that through bus/rail journeys have been convenient as you had to walk to Sticklepath Hill to get to Bideford (which wasn't that bad but nowhere near as convenient as the station forecourt, especially if you are elderly or have luggage) but to get to Braunton/Ilfracombe you had to walk all the way over the river to the bus station, bar one or two journeys Mon - Fri.
I suspect Stagecoach operating the services direct to Barnstaple Station forecourt is not unconnected with the continuing year on year rises in pax at Barnstaple, despite the recession. Were through trains to London operating, I'm sure even more spectacular rises in both rail and 21/21A bus use would occur, as with a convenient connection like that, going by public transport from London to Ilfracombe/Bideford would be quite practical again for the first time in 50 years, something Ilfracombe in particular desperately needs.
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Ash Bridge
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Thanks for that, I suppose today a 150/153 would manage it in around 17/18 mins,like you say though with the station being on the wrong side of the Torridge maybe another 5/10 minutes would have to be factored in to journey time for the town centre.
CC 72100
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I am sure I will be your driver at some stage!
I will leave you to decide if that is a good or a bad thing!
I'll go in with an open mind for the time being
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Ash Bridge
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I think that is a very good point you make about the good view the passenger gets from a pacer when used on scenic routes such as the North Devon Line etc.This one positive aspect of these units tends to get forgotten with all the negative things that are said about them, perhaps not such a good thing when used on commuter services passing through the scenic delights of Ashburys, Gorton, Brinnington, Hyde, Guide Bridge etc
A Pacer is a fine unit when used on routes that are suitable for them.
And that is the problem, they are being used on routes where a 150 (or even a 156/158) would be more suitable but successive governments have starved the regions of cash and forced them to use unsuitable trains on unsuitable routes, that is most certainly not the trains fault!
And that is the problem, they are being used on routes where a 150 (or even a 156/158) would be more suitable but successive governments have starved the regions of cash and forced them to use unsuitable trains on unsuitable routes, that is most certainly not the trains fault!
Just how off-topic is that actually though? As I asked earlier, without getting an answer, is this consultation a valid avenue to point out where the rolling stock assumptions would not pair trains with routes/services they are suited to operate?
As I have already said, putting 158s on suburban stopping services doesn't sound like playing to the strengths of that type of unit. The faster Barnstaple-Exeter service you suggested earlier maybe, but not all-stops commuter trains.
The 150s will be used on the stoppers, the 158s will only be used (yeah I know
Given that there is no infrastructure on that line for both fasts and stoppers, I think it is fair to say that once the 158s come in, trains that stop anywhere other than Crediton, Eggesford and Umberleigh are going to be few and far between.
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