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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

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LDECRexile

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An alternative that I recently discovered and may work if your software is similar to mine: right click on the link (whether or not it appears in shortened form) in the previous post or other document, and from the menu that comes up select "Copy Link Location".

I'll give it a go next time, thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Youtube video on the Windhoff wiring train

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmRSiYobB70

Wow! Fascinating from so many viewpoints.

Even better is the Alladin's Cave you've opened for me with umpteen other films showing as links. I've already drooled over Nottingham Victoria in the 1960s and Wooferton in 1961.

Great stuff, warm thanks.
 
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snowball

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The first caption on that film is WCRM OLE, which makes me fantasise about graffiti-ing it to WORMHOLE.
 

deltic08

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Updated "where we're up to" spreadsheet below.

The news from Man Vic sounds encouraging, but I couldn't see how to incorporate it below. Suggestions welcome.

Many thanks yet again. So good for those too far away to see first hand and keeps us up-to-date with progress.
 

LDECRexile

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Thank you for your kind remarks.

I've just spent a spellbound hour delving into railway material on uTube thanks to the link posted above. I've only scratched the surface, but there is some seriously fab stuff there. Anything by Chris Ward always merits a look, and the shorts in and north of Nottingham Victoria take me straight back fifty years and more.

Back to our electrification, my wife was suitably impressed with her first sight of wires when I bade her look northeast as we went under the Wigan Branch M57 bridge on our way back from our Tuesday grandparenting stint. Well, I think she was impressed!
 

PDG1949

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I'll give it a go next time, thank you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Wow! Fascinating from so many viewpoints.

Even better is the Alladin's Cave you've opened for me with umpteen other films showing as links. I've already drooled over Nottingham Victoria in the 1960s and Wooferton in 1961.

Great stuff, warm thanks.

Glad that was of so much assistance - as you can guess, the original YouTube quote was for the wiring train, but I'm glad the situation gave you access to so much.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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So, we are looking at about February 2015 then?
But still no word from NR, so I have now sent them an email over this.

Rail today has a statement by NR on the subject.
It simply says Phase 2 "will be completed slightly later than planned....making every effort to complete the work as soon as possible...working closely with Northern Rail to ensure there is little, if any, impact on passengers".
It blames difficult ground conditions and "technical issues with wiring equipment".
It also says the rest of the NW electrification programme is unaffected.

I'm not sure I believe the last statement, but we can only wait and see.
 

DJH1971

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Rail today has a statement by NR on the subject.
It simply says Phase 2 "will be completed slightly later than planned....making every effort to complete the work as soon as possible...working closely with Northern Rail to ensure there is little, if any, impact on passengers".
It blames difficult ground conditions and "technical issues with wiring equipment".
It also says the rest of the NW electrification programme is unaffected.

I'm not sure I believe the last statement, but we can only wait and see.

Do you have a URL link to this?
 

LDECRexile

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I did a road tour today to photograph places where trains don’t stop (plus a few others!)

I was excited to spot some orange near Sankey Viaduct as I passed. On investigation there was a crew of two teams; one was erecting scaffolding on the south side of Column 7 and the other was preparing access to the base of Column 4.

Not for the first time the crews were properly mindful of their and my safety then thoroughly pleasant and happy to talk about what they were doing, and with pride. In the ten months I’ve been following this project I can count on one finger the number of Orangemen (and women) who gave me the “what do f you want?” look.

Apparently masts are to be erected on Columns 2, 4, 7 and “10” with the most easterly being Column 1. Column “10” is part of the Western end of the viaduct and doesn’t appear as a separate column like the conventional nine. One of the photographs might make this a bit clearer. Column 7 is immediately East of the Sankey Brook itself and Column 4 is next to the public footpath. Column 10 is on private land and Column 2 is the worst to get at, being in a bog polluted with Japanese Knotweed.

The “Access Team” (my description) have to create stable access for staff and vehicles, prepare the ground for scaffolding and associated work then, when the job is done, put it all back as found (minus Japanese Knotweed, presumably.) Access to the worksite is opposite the end of Dingle Avenue.

The scaffolders were already well up Column 7, South Face. I believe the design of the work itself is 1. take out stonework from the top of the parapet down to a ledge near the arches, 2. Build concrete bases for masts in the voids created by removing the stonework, 3. Cut the away the backs of the removed stone blocks where concrete now exists, then 4. Replace the slimmed down stone blocks as found. The end result will be that the stonework looks like the original stonework because it is the original stonework. If I have this wrong it is my fault, not that of the person who explained it.

As I arrived at St Helen Junction a team was just packing up, having worked on substantial foundations to the TTC mast at the eastern end of the westbound platform. The extra work is to underpin the TTC to ensure it doesn’t topple over northwards. The very pleasant and informative engineer said the job should be done in days. He confirmed that the base at the eastern end of the eastbound platform is redundant. When the TTC is set and solid, wires can be slung through the station. He also said that work should be starting on Carr Mill Viaduct with access from Laf**** Road, St Helens.

I toured other sites as per the linked Flickr, ending up at Carr Mill. I couldn’t see an access point on Laf**** Road, nor any sign of activity on the viaduct, though I did learn from going up close that the viaduct must have been four track in the past.

On arriving home I found that start of work on Sankey and Carr Mill viaducts had been announced, so I can confirm 50% of that “on the ground”.

29 new photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/
 

DJH1971

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I did a road tour today to photograph places where trains don’t stop (plus a few others!)

I was excited to spot some orange near Sankey Viaduct as I passed. On investigation there was a crew of two teams; one was erecting scaffolding on the south side of Column 7 and the other was preparing access to the base of Column 4.

Not for the first time the crews were properly mindful of their and my safety then thoroughly pleasant and happy to talk about what they were doing, and with pride. In the ten months I’ve been following this project I can count on one finger the number of Orangemen (and women) who gave me the “what do f you want?” look.

Apparently masts are to be erected on Columns 2, 4, 7 and “10” with the most easterly being Column 1. Column “10” is part of the Western end of the viaduct and doesn’t appear as a separate column like the conventional nine. One of the photographs might make this a bit clearer. Column 7 is immediately East of the Sankey Brook itself and Column 4 is next to the public footpath. Column 10 is on private land and Column 2 is the worst to get at, being in a bog polluted with Japanese Knotweed.

The “Access Team” (my description) have to create stable access for staff and vehicles, prepare the ground for scaffolding and associated work then, when the job is done, put it all back as found (minus Japanese Knotweed, presumably.) Access to the worksite is opposite the end of Dingle Avenue.

The scaffolders were already well up Column 7, South Face. I believe the design of the work itself is 1. take out stonework from the top of the parapet down to a ledge near the arches, 2. Build concrete bases for masts in the voids created by removing the stonework, 3. Cut the away the backs of the removed stone blocks where concrete now exists, then 4. Replace the slimmed down stone blocks as found. The end result will be that the stonework looks like the original stonework because it is the original stonework. If I have this wrong it is my fault, not that of the person who explained it.

As I arrived at St Helen Junction a team was just packing up, having worked on substantial foundations to the TTC mast at the eastern end of the westbound platform. The extra work is to underpin the TTC to ensure it doesn’t topple over northwards. The very pleasant and informative engineer said the job should be done in days. He confirmed that the base at the eastern end of the eastbound platform is redundant. When the TTC is set and solid, wires can be slung through the station. He also said that work should be starting on Carr Mill Viaduct with access from Laf**** Road, St Helens.

I toured other sites as per the linked Flickr, ending up at Carr Mill. I couldn’t see an access point on Laf**** Road, nor any sign of activity on the viaduct, though I did learn from going up close that the viaduct must have been four track in the past.

On arriving home I found that start of work on Sankey and Carr Mill viaducts had been announced, so I can confirm 50% of that “on the ground”.

29 new photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Keep it up!
 

snowball

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Apparently masts are to be erected on Columns 2, 4, 7 and “10” with the most easterly being Column 1. Column “10” is part of the Western end of the viaduct and doesn’t appear as a separate column like the conventional nine. One of the photographs might make this a bit clearer. Column 7 is immediately East of the Sankey Brook itself and Column 4 is next to the public footpath. Column 10 is on private land and Column 2 is the worst to get at, being in a bog polluted with Japanese Knotweed.

We've had a discussion about this before. We've also had links to documents which contain elevations showing where the masts (or rather portals) were supposed to go.

The number of spans is 9 so the number of supports can't possibly be what you call "the conventional nine". It must be either 10 (if you include the abutments at each end) or 8 (if you don't).

Clearly NR are including the abutments in their numbering system, and assigning them the numbers 1 and 10, while the eight intermediate columns are numbered 2 to 9. A very obvious system to use.

If it's true, as you say, that the electification portals will be on columns 2, 4, 7, 10, then that's a change of plan which may upset the listed building people. It was supposed to be 1, 4, 7, 10 - i.e. the two abutments and two intermediate columns. If it were to be 2, 4, 7, 10 then the spacing would be unequal, the layout would be asymmetrical and it would be contrary to the diagrams we've seen.

If it really is to be 2 and not 1 then I wonder why it's been changed.

On another point, in your pictures near Bootle Branch Junction, the recent cantilevers seem noticeably higher than the 50-year-old ones.

The annotations on a sleeper in one of your pictures seem to refer to the (horizontal) track geometry, to guide future maintenance work: the sleeper is at the boundary between a circular curve of specified radius and a transition curve of specified length.
 

LDECRexile

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We've had a discussion about this before. We've also had links to documents which contain elevations showing where the masts (or rather portals) were supposed to go.

The number of spans is 9 so the number of supports can't possibly be what you call "the conventional nine". It must be either 10 (if you include the abutments at each end) or 8 (if you don't).

Clearly NR are including the abutments in their numbering system, and assigning them the numbers 1 and 10, while the eight intermediate columns are numbered 2 to 9. A very obvious system to use.

If it's true, as you say, that the electification portals will be on columns 2, 4, 7, 10, then that's a change of plan which may upset the listed building people. It was supposed to be 1, 4, 7, 10 - i.e. the two abutments and two intermediate columns. If it were to be 2, 4, 7, 10 then the spacing would be unequal, the layout would be asymmetrical and it would be contrary to the diagrams we've seen.

If it really is to be 2 and not 1 then I wonder why it's been changed.

On another point, in your pictures near Bootle Branch Junction, the recent cantilevers seem noticeably higher than the 50-year-old ones.

The annotations on a sleeper in one of your pictures seem to refer to the (horizontal) track geometry, to guide future maintenance work: the sleeper is at the boundary between a circular curve of specified radius and a transition curve of specified length.

Really interesting, thanks for taking this trouble.

a. 1, 4, 7 & 10 fits my memory and idea of symmetry, too, but I am quoting the man on the ground on the day dressed in orange. I could be mis-quoting, he might have made a mistake or any such thing.

b. Near Bootle Branch masts indeed seem diferent. Often other things seem different at interfaces between new and old, notably older kit often appears much lighter, flimsier, even.

c. Thanks for the info on the track geometry annotations. One of the many things I like about this site is the way people who know what's what are happy to chip in their two pennorth.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Still some metal piles lying around at Earlestown I see. Maybe they are eventually for the platforms.
I've seen OHLE features elsewhere like the split contact wire you show ("what is it").
I can only think it's at a difficult spot (over a junction) and guards against losing pantograph contact.
Makes you wonder how they did the graffiti - definitely not a Banksy...;)
Nice pics.
 

LDECRexile

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I've just noticed that this site has "censored" my #2807 !!!! Towards the end I referred twice to L a f f a c k Road in St Helens (without spaces) and the site has twice rendered it as "Laf****"

Well, **** me.
 

DavidL

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I must admit, that did amuse me too - grew up not a million miles from there. It's Laffak Rd, though, which I think escapes the forum censor. Problem solved :)

Still no evidence of activity at Carr Mill Viaduct just yet, save for some electrification related gubbins dropped at the side of the track.
 

AM9

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I must admit, that did amuse me too - grew up not a million miles from there. It's Laffak Rd, though, which I think escapes the forum censor. Problem solved :)

Still no evidence of activity at Carr Mill Viaduct just yet, save for some electrification related gubbins dropped at the side of the track.

It's strange because it copes with Scunthorpe.
 

dysonsphere

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Nice informative pics glad to see you migrated your pics now. Did you ever find the problem bye the way.
 

po8crg

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I must admit, that did amuse me too - grew up not a million miles from there. It's Laffak Rd, though, which I think escapes the forum censor. Problem solved :)

Still no evidence of activity at Carr Mill Viaduct just yet, save for some electrification related gubbins dropped at the side of the track.

Likewise on growing up in the area - well, up the top of Moss Bank Hill for me, but still pretty close. If they'd built Carr Mill station in the 70s when they first proposed it, that would have been great for me.
 
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