Why Are Rail Replacement Buses So Slow ?

[Mutant Lemming]

On Saturday I intend to travel from Bicester to Oxford but engineering work means there is a bus replacement between Bicester and Oxford. This service is scheduled to take 40 minutes with one stop at Islip. The S5 service bus has numerous stops and only takes 38 minutes.
While I can understand that many rail passengers would be unaware of the change of mode for their journey and may slow things down a bit as a result, I can't see how it can take longer than the service bus which has many more stops and a driver having to collect fares and issue tickets.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The S5 sticks to the main road: the RRB has to divert down slow roads, essentially country lanes, to get to and from Islip.

Also, the S5 terminates in the centre of Oxford, the RRB carries on to the railway station, itself another five to ten minutes further by road (well: if approached from that direction. Possibly the RRB enters Oxford by the Western Bypass and the Botley Road, the latter of which, particularly, can suffer from congestion, even with a bus lane for part of the way - but this too is hardly a direct route)

 

[IanXC]

Another consideration in the timing of RRBs is that passengers may well be connecting back onto rail services, so the RRB timetable needs to be sufficiently robust that itineraries will work.

 

[CatfordCat]

Chances are it will arrive early at the other end - probably a bit of padding in the timetable to try and avoid missed connections.

(Although I don't know Islip, so don't know if the rail replacement will have to make a detour / awkward turn that the local service bus doesn't in order to get to Islip Station - some rail replacement routes have to follow something of a zig-zag route by road to serve all stations.)

Most bus operators tend to adjust the timetable a bit by time of day to account for variable traffic congestion, even on Sundays, where shopping centres etc can generate a lot of congestion.

Train operators don't need to do this (they might add the odd minute of dwell time in peak hours, but nothing like to the same extent) but rail replacement services usually have to try and connect with a 'same time past each hour' train timetable.

Where there is a train - coach / coach - train connection at each end of the coach's journey, this can make scheduling a rail replacement somewhat difficult, and the compromise can be a tight connection during the daytime and slack running times / waiting time at intermediate stations early and late in the day.

 

[Bald Rick]

They are not necessarily.

During the reconstruction of the bridge over the Trent at Newark, self and Mrs Rick heading from York to London tried to catch a southbound Scotland - Kings Cross HST which was running via Lincoln. It was set down only, and despite asking the Senior conductor nicely we were not allowed on. So we got the following electric service about 10 mins later, and changed at Retford for the replacement bus to Grantham, boarding the second bus to leave.

Following a spirited run down the A1, we arrived Grantham to await the electric service to KX. And what should go through the platform about 10 minutes later but the same HST we were refused access to at York. Bertie the Bus won that day.

 

[67018]

The X5 is quicker still - 30 minutes.

As has been mentioned, the diversion off the A34 to serve Islip is probably what makes the difference. A mile or so each way down a minor road, and turning round at Islip will take a few minutes too.

But then I seem to remember the trains were not much quicker than the bus when they ran - slower overall if aiming for central Oxford.

 

[Rapidash]

When Dawlish was conked out, it was reported in the Indy that the replacement bus was quicker than the normal train service

 

[Kite159]

Whenever there is a replacement express bus between Southampton (departing from the airport) & Bournemouth it is quicker than the normal train service.

 

[WatcherZero]

Was on a rail replacement Birmingham-Leicester a couple of years ago, the bus took twice as long despite skipping half the stations.

 

[Failed Unit]

There are a few things that could help speed them up.

As an example, when the Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk line was recently shut for engineering work in the Linlithgow are buses were used between Polmont and a Edinburgh.

Multiple buses which followed each other around, I never understood why they didn't have an Edinburgh only bus to bypass Linlithgow and save 10 minutes as it goes down the M9

I can understand why they didn't connect at a Edinburgh park, quicker as the Bathgate route was still running, but people prefer staying in the bus once they are there.

 

[CatfordCat]

There are a few things that could help speed them up.

As an example, when the Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk line was recently shut for engineering work in the Linlithgow are buses were used between Polmont and a Edinburgh.

Multiple buses which followed each other around, I never understood why they didn't have an Edinburgh only bus to bypass Linlithgow and save 10 minutes as it goes down the M9

I can understand why they didn't connect at a Edinburgh park, quicker as the Bathgate route was still running, but people prefer staying in the bus once they are there.

Depends what the TOC contracts really.

I've met quite a few rail replacement services where there has been an 'all stations' and a 'fast' coach connecting with the same train.

As an example, there's one this coming weekend replacing the Bracknell - Reading bit of the SWT line, there's a fast version and an all stations version, and I expect that FGW are doing similar in the Reading - Guildford direction.

Sounds like something similar would have made sense in the case you refer to.

 

[Greenback]

I am pleased to report that during two weeks of RRB's when the Loughor bridge was renewed, the buses were considerably quicker than the timetable suggested.

As mentioned above, the timetables have to be robust to allow for emergency roadworks, heavy traffic,and other unforeseen incidents.

 

[lj9090]

Whenever there is a replacement express bus between Southampton (departing from the airport) & Bournemouth it is quicker than the normal train service.

The actual time the coach spends moving, maybe, and only just. A London to Bournemouth journey usually takes 10 minutes longer during RRB and going the other way it leaves Bournemouth 10 minutes early.

It is quicker than the slow train though; catching the xx54 on a Sunday from Waterloo, stopping as it does nearly everywhere between Airport & Bournemouth, the bus often got there about 10 minutes before the train would have.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Most bus operators tend to adjust the timetable a bit by time of day to account for variable traffic congestion, even on Sundays, where shopping centres etc can generate a lot of congestion.

I wish somebody could get that through to First Bus in Huddersfield, whose timetables seem to only work on weekday off-peak. Weekday peaks everything is late, weekends they're driving so slowly between timing points that they ought to have an orange flashing light.

 

[thenorthern]

To me the main reason why Rail Replacement buses are slow is they are limited to 50 MPH (I think) and compared to the train they don't have a dedicated exclusive route to the station like the train. Not to mention that many stations are town/city centres and driving into some such as Birmingham and Manchester or even Mansfield well erm......we won't go there.

 

[MCR247]

To me the main reason why Rail Replacement buses are slow is they are limited to 50 MPH (I think) and compared to the train they don't have a dedicated exclusive route to the station like the train. Not to mention that many stations are town/city centres and driving into some such as Birmingham and Manchester or even Mansfield well erm......we won't go there.

I think you're missing the point. The OP was asking why they are so slow compared to normal buses following a similar route (which has now been answered), and not why they're slow compared to the train

 

[Kite159]

If I remember correctly whenever Salisbury to Basingstoke is closed, and replaced by an all-station bus and a bus which only calls at Andover (alternating every half-hour) it is quicker to jump on the express bus to Andover which overtakes the stopper bus which left 30 minutes before to get back to Grateley. Down to the stations at Overton & Whitchurch being away from the main road between the two places.

Assuming no hold-ups on the M3/A303 and the express bus using Junction 6 to get onto the M3 rather than going to junction 7.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The train from Grimsby to Doncaster is very slow with a max speed of 55mph and the bus goes faster down the pararell mototway. The line is often shut for months every year or two.

 

[richw]

When Dawlish was conked out, it was reported in the Indy that the replacement bus was quicker than the normal train service

Without a doubt.

IF I am on limited time restraints, It saves me around an hour to drive to Tiverton Parkway.

My house (Redruth) to Tiverton Parkway is give or take a few minutes 2 hours to drive.
By Train the quickest train is 2 hours 44. HSTs are between 3hrs and 3hrs 25 depending on number of stops. The 0605 is 3hr from Redruth to Tiverton. I only cottoned on to this when I overslept one occasion and drove to Tiverton and despite not leaving home until 0620 I ended up with about a 45 minute wait at Tiverton, and ended up on the same service!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Without a doubt.

IF I am on limited time restraints, It saves me around an hour to drive to Tiverton Parkway.

My house (Redruth) to Tiverton Parkway is give or take a few minutes 2 hours to drive.
By Train the quickest train is 2 hours 44. HSTs are between 3hrs and 3hrs 25 depending on number of stops. The 0605 is 3hr from Redruth to Tiverton. I only cottoned on to this when I overslept one occasion and drove to Tiverton and despite not leaving home until 0620 I ended up with about a 45 minute wait at Tiverton, and ended up on the same service!

The same is true for people travelling from North Devon. Assuming they are heading east, driving to Tiverton is a lot quicker than getting the train from Barnstaple to Exeter and then from Exeter to Tiverton.

 

[richw]

The same is true for people travelling from North Devon. Assuming they are heading east, driving to Tiverton is a lot quicker than getting the train from Barnstaple to Exeter and then from Exeter to Tiverton.

From Cornwall though we have a direct HST that isn't very HS!

 

[Busaholic]

Without a doubt.

IF I am on limited time restraints, It saves me around an hour to drive to Tiverton Parkway.

My house (Redruth) to Tiverton Parkway is give or take a few minutes 2 hours to drive.
By Train the quickest train is 2 hours 44. HSTs are between 3hrs and 3hrs 25 depending on number of stops. The 0605 is 3hr from Redruth to Tiverton. I only cottoned on to this when I overslept one occasion and drove to Tiverton and despite not leaving home until 0620 I ended up with about a 45 minute wait at Tiverton, and ended up on the same service!

Never exceeding the speed limit of course! In the evening I can drive from my home in Penzance to my sister's place in Dulwich quicker than the train from Penzance to Paddington (and, yes, I have a clean driving licence).

 

[lincolnshire]

The train from Grimsby to Doncaster is very slow with a max speed of 55mph and the bus goes faster down the pararell mototway. The line is often shut for months every year or two.

Suggest you use the bus then instead of the train.

The line has been shut three times to my knowledge for extended periods ( more than a weekend) one time th renew Keadby Canal Drawbridge, as the old bridge had to be cut up and removed and a new old fitted considering this one is a moving bridge to let canal traffic through.

Another time was when they repaired the sinking track between Medge Hall and Thorne South, they could have left it and it would have had a lower speed restriction but the trains could have still been running.

The last time was when the Hatfield Colliery spoil heap decided to invade the railway. Was that the railways fault then?

When you consider just how much traffic runs on this line it does very well, if you spend more money and renew the signalling ( 40 years old ) and upgrade the track etc then you can have a higher speed for your train.

 

[richw]

Never exceeding the speed limit of course! In the evening I can drive from my home in Penzance to my sister's place in Dulwich quicker than the train from Penzance to Paddington (and, yes, I have a clean driving licence).

Nope no need to exceed the speed limit. I wont comment how quickly I have been a passenger in car doing a similar journey!
My house to Tiverton Parkway is 113.2 miles. Dual Carriageway/Motorway all the way except for about 10 miles at 60mph limits, so sticking exactly at the speed limit the entire way should take 1hr 40 roughly.

 

[High Dyke]

As someone mentioned it is to do with the actual RRB schedules. Having driven on these many times they can be very generous, but not always - especially if, as mentioned, you have to zig-zag along minor roads to visit every wayside station on a particular route. A late night trip i covered once was from Derby - Long Eaton (using the A52) timed at 40 mins. Google Maps gives the journey in the current traffic conditions as 19 mins and a train takes about 8 mins. There were no connections to maintain, but between station running times did seem excessive.

 

[quarella]

There are a few things that could help speed them up.

As an example, when the Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk line was recently shut for engineering work in the Linlithgow are buses were used between Polmont and a Edinburgh.

Multiple buses which followed each other around, I never understood why they didn't have an Edinburgh only bus to bypass Linlithgow and save 10 minutes as it goes down the M9

I can understand why they didn't connect at a Edinburgh park, quicker as the Bathgate route was still running, but people prefer staying in the bus once they are there.

There could be a number of reasons-Connections have been mentioned. It may have been done for logistical reasons as Edinburgh city centre isn't the ideal place to lose large numbers of coaches. Passengers are also a consideration. While figures are compiled and predictions made we still have a 'walk up' railway so this ensured all stations were covered. Separating passengers is a nightmare even if you ask where they are going there will be at least one who says Edinburgh who wanted Linlithgow along with the one buried under their headphones.

 

[Titfield]

Buses that operate interurban routes (as opposed to round town routes) are usually fitted with high speed rear axles and gearing that would enable them to operate up to the maximum permitted speed 100 kmh = 62 mph.

Whereas town buses may have gearing that only allows up to say 40 mph.

When rail replacement is in place I doubt that they would be able to guarantee only using interurban vehicles hence the schedule has to be designed to suit the slowest bus.

 

[Carlisle]

I wish somebody could get that through to First Bus in Huddersfield, whose timetables seem to only work on weekday off-peak. Weekday peaks everything is late, weekends they're driving so slowly between timing points that they ought to have an orange flashing light.

Maybe party due to the fact that drivers will often face suspension and dismissal if caught running early

 

[notadriver]

Buses that operate interurban routes (as opposed to round town routes) are usually fitted with high speed rear axles and gearing that would enable them to operate up to the maximum permitted speed 100 kmh = 62 mph.



Whereas town buses may have gearing that only allows up to say 40 mph.



When rail replacement is in place I doubt that they would be able to guarantee only using interurban vehicles hence the schedule has to be designed to suit the slowest bus.

When I did rail replacement a couple of weeks ago the bus was scheduled to take about 55 minutes against the 18 minute time by rail. This was made worse by heavy traffic during the morning turning causing a further 20 minute delay.

The route had a dual carriageway section so buses could be given a good blast. I've noticed many service buses along the route are electronically limited to about 50 mph. In fact my bus - a B9TL used to be limited to 50 but this was increased to 62 for long distance work. But it was still very slow in my opinion. Lack of kickdown, meant there simply wasn't much oomph beyond 30 mph. This showed on the dual carriageway where reaching 60 mph really required downhill assistance. Climbing hills below 30 mph was fine however and the gearbox did hold the lower gears for this. I wish I was driving a coach but the capacity of a double decker bus was needed. Coaches are so much faster especially up hills on motorways.

 

[D6975]

The Hatfield Colliery spoil heap slip was another example where double coach services were used. I did Scunthorpe-Donny non stop on the 'fast' coach, but there was another coach at Scunthorpe that was doing all stations to Doncaster.
The fast coach really was quite fast - didn't cause me any delay at all really.