Why are US trains generally silver?

[anti-pacer]

I've noticed that US trains are generally silver and resemble tin cans, from subway trains to Amtrak services.

Does anyone know why this is the case over there?

 

[DownSouth]

It started as a trend when the first stainless steel coaches started replacing wooden ones, leaving them 'bare' was the best way to advertise the quality of the service.

If the quality of the steel is good enough, it's much easier to keep clean and doesn't show the dirt as badly as a painted livery. The railroads were in proper competition with each other for passengers at the time when stainless steel coaches were first introduced, so that stuff was important as passengers the world over have the perception that a dirty train is also probably a poorly maintained train that won't perform well.

Whether the stainless steel look is a good thing is purely in the eye of the beholder. I certainly love seeing a nice silver coach with the distinctive fluted panels of the Budd Company, the manufacturers of the finest rail vehicles in the world by a long shot, and stainless steel is also a much nicer look than many of the drab liveries used in Britain through the 20th century.

Now that paint technology and the printing of decals has improved, most new US coaches and multiple units are coming in smartly coloured liveries these days.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Seems to be a fashion....American Airlines used the same idea for its aircraft - the MD80 never looked better than the classic AA Stainless Steel livery (or no livery as this case might be).

There were problems however with the BAE146 which didn't take kindly not to being painted.

Sorry to take it a little off-topic, but quickly returning, have to agree with DownSouth the Budd railcars did look good. Never got the chance to ride on one, but did see them in service in Dallas c.2000. There also used to be a couple rusting away parked north of Boston's North Station a few years back - got pictures of them...

t.

Ian

 

[starrymarkb]

Seems to be a fashion....American Airlines used the same idea for its aircraft - the MD80 never looked better than the classic AA Stainless Steel livery (or no livery as this case might be).

There were problems however with the BAE146 which didn't take kindly not to being painted.

Airbii don't like not being painted either. Airbus use a coating on the metal and composites as well, the result is an unpainted Airbus is Green! AA had to paint them Silver! - The main reason for the livery change was the 787 and Airbii on order can't be polished (and even 737s are now using composite cargo doors etc and so look tatty when brand new!

 

[DownSouth]

Sorry to take it a little off-topic, but quickly returning, have to agree with DownSouth the Budd railcars did look good. Never got the chance to ride on one, but did see them in service in Dallas c.2000. There also used to be a couple rusting away parked north of Boston's North Station a few years back - got pictures of them...

I believe there is still a Budd RDC fleet operating in Canada with VIA Rail.

Plenty of loco-hauled coaches and eight RDCs operated in Australia, some were imported directly from Budd while most were license-built in Australia under strict supervision from Budd engineers. None of the RDC units here remain in passenger operation, with only one on static display at the National Railway Museum at Port Adelaide and one converted to a crew accommodation car for freight trains.

Budd loco-hauled coaches are used on all GSR trains (the Indian-Pacific, The Ghan, and the Overland) and on freight trains as crew accommodation. The XPT used in NSW uses Budd coaches between two HST-like power cars, the Budd design having been found superior to the BREL Mark 3 in a design competition.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I believe there is still a Budd RDC fleet operating in Canada with VIA Rail.

Plenty of loco-hauled coaches and eight RDCs operated in Australia, some were imported directly from Budd while most were license-built in Australia under strict supervision from Budd engineers. None of the RDC units here remain in passenger operation, with only one on static display at the National Railway Museum at Port Adelaide and one converted to a crew accommodation car for freight trains.

Budd loco-hauled coaches are used on all GSR trains (the Indian-Pacific, The Ghan, and the Overland) and on freight trains as crew accommodation. The XPT used in NSW uses Budd coaches between two HST-like power cars, the Budd design having been found superior to the BREL Mark 3 in a design competition.

I remember riding a "Silver Fern" Budd silver railcar in New Zealand in 1985 (Auckland-Wellington).
Don't know if they are still going.

 

[muddythefish]

Whether the stainless steel look is a good thing is purely in the eye of the beholder. I certainly love seeing a nice silver coach with the distinctive fluted panels of the Budd Company, the manufacturers of the finest rail vehicles in the world by a long shot, and stainless steel is also a much nicer look than many of the drab liveries used in Britain through the 20th century.
.

An Aussie never misses an opportunity to have a dig at Britain.:cry:

He's wrong anyway. To name just a few, the GWR's chocolate and cream, the Southern malachite green, the LNER teaks, BR's carmine and cream, even BR's Inter City blue and grey were all better than some anonymous silver.

 

[ac6000cw]

An Aussie never misses an opportunity to have a dig at Britain.:cry:

He's wrong anyway. To name just a few, the GWR's chocolate and cream, the Southern malachite green, the LNER teaks, BR's carmine and cream, even BR's Inter City blue and grey were all better than some anonymous silver.

Have you actually seen a fluted stainless steel Budd coach in the flesh ?

The ones from the 1950s still look reasonably modern today (which you certainly can't say about BR Mk1s from the same period).

As DownSouth said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but they certainly have been very distinctive feature of American passenger railroading, and the style they created is still a feature of new build stock today (even though the Budd Company itself is long gone).

 

[muddythefish]

The ones from the 1950s still look reasonably modern today (which you certainly can't say about BR Mk1s from the same period).

A

I thought we were discussing coach liveries, not the coaches themselves?

For me, there is nothing finer than a rake of GWR chocolate and cream stock, preferably those designed by Collett.

 

[Yew]

, the Budd design having been found superior to the BREL Mark 3 in a design competition.

I'm interested, was that in general? or specifically for the australian application as the Budds where desiged for hot, sandy conditions and to a large laoding guage? IIRC the Air Filters of the HST design had to be changed, to filter out the sand. It would certainly be interesting to see the report comparing the two coach designs..

 

[fowler9]

I think the all metallic look is very retro these days. It looks nice but old fashioned. American Airlines new livery looks a lot more contemporary to me than a tin can with red white and blue paint on. All personal taste though.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I believe there is still a Budd RDC fleet operating in Canada with VIA Rail.

There are two VIA Rail routes - one active, one suspended - that use the RDCs.

The VIA Rail Malahat was suspended in 2011. It was a single daily 450 mile round trip from Victoria in the south of Vancouver Island, via Nanaimo, to Courtenay in the north. VIA Rail blamed low passenger numbers, degrading track conditions, and the high cost of maintaining an isolated route away from the mainland when they suspended service. It is now planned to return in 2015, but with an additional morning service from Nanaimo to Victoria and return in the evening, hopefully making it more attractive to commuters.

VIA Rail's only current Budd RDC service is the Sudbury - White River train (formerly called the Lake Superior) in Ontario. It's an eight hour, 300 mile trip that operates three days a week in each direction. Although the VIA Rail Canadian passes through the city of Sudbury, it stops at Sudbury Junction outside town, and there are no connections between the two trains. The Sudbury - White River RDC is mainly used to reach remote cabins and communities.

There are probably some other heritage routes in the USA that use Budds, but I'm less familiar with them.

As an aside, American and Canadian passenger trains started to move away from the unfinished stainless steel with high speed projects in the seventies and eighties.

Both Amtrak and VIA Rail used the UAC Turbotrain in the seventies and early eighties, and this was painted in white/red (CN) and yellow/blue (VIA) in Canada.

The VIA Rail LRC (a necessarily bilingual acronym for both 'Light, Rapid, Comfortable' and 'Léger, Rapide, et Confortable') was a kind of Canadian Intercity 125 - only with Active Tilt technology. While it was planned to travel at up to 125 mph it was eventually limited to 100 mph.

According to Wikipedia, some of the LRC locomotives last duties included hauling the infamous ex-Nightstar carriages on a short lived overnight Montréal - Toronto sleeper service.

The LRC carriages are still in use today, albeit behind taller, heavier and more powerful GE locomotives, in the VIA Rail Corridor in Québec and Ontario. As you can see, they look a little odd behind a taller loco

 

[ac6000cw]

P.S. Those are GE P42DC locos in the last photograph (not GM)

According to this list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car#Preservation - there are still some operational RDCs on US heritage/scenic railroads, but AFAIK none in regular passenger service in the US.

 

[jamesontheroad]

P.S. Those are GE P42DC locos in the last photograph (not GM)

Noted, thanks!

 

[edwin_m]

Amtrak had sizeable fleets of stainless steel cars from the 50s in daily service until quite recently, and still has a few running according to Wikipedia. I believe VIA rail does too though I can't immediately track down a reference. Which says something about the toughness of these cars, as well as about the spending policies of the respective governments.

 

[ac6000cw]

Amtrak had sizeable fleets of stainless steel cars from the 50s in daily service until quite recently, and still has a few running according to Wikipedia. I believe VIA rail does too though I can't immediately track down a reference. Which says something about the toughness of these cars, as well as about the spending policies of the respective governments.

VIA's 'Canadian' transcontinental train uses a fleet of fully refurbished/rebuilt stainless steel Budd cars, and some of their other trains also still use Budd cars from the 1950s - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Via_Rail_rolling_stock

 

[jamesontheroad]

Amtrak had sizeable fleets of stainless steel cars from the 50s in daily service until quite recently, and still has a few running according to Wikipedia. I believe VIA rail does too though I can't immediately track down a reference. Which says something about the toughness of these cars, as well as about the spending policies of the respective governments.

The oldest stainless steel Amtrak dining cars and baggage cars date from the late nineteen-forties and early nineteen-fifties, although will be replaced in a matter of years. All passenger carriages and sleepers are newer.

The oldest stainless steel VIA Rail cars in current service date from the late forties, although their maintenance has arguably been better than that of Amtrak. I've ridden thousands of kilometres in these, and you'd never know that they're almost seventy years (!) old.

 

[HSTEd]

Is this the Horizonfleet purchase?

 

[ac6000cw]

They are Viewliner II cars being built by CAF USA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewliner

The Horizon cars were built about 25 years ago, so are relatively modern.

 

[HSTEd]

Oops, I got them mixed up.
I was talking to the person who runs that 'Reason and Rail' blog about this.

He is of the opinion the Long Distance trains should largely be dismantled and all the new Viewliners completed as passenger vehicles for more 'corridor' trains.

 

[Squaddie]

Oops, I got them mixed up.
I was talking to the person who runs that 'Reason and Rail' blog about this.

He is of the opinion the Long Distance trains should largely be dismantled and all the new Viewliners completed as passenger vehicles for more 'corridor' trains.

But the person who writes the 'Reason and Rail' blog is also of the opinion that the world was created by God 6,200 years ago.

 

[ac6000cw]

Oops, I got them mixed up.
I was talking to the person who runs that 'Reason and Rail' blog about this.

He is of the opinion the Long Distance trains should largely be dismantled and all the new Viewliners completed as passenger vehicles for more 'corridor' trains.

To be honest, he's probably right - the long-distance trains mostly exist for political reasons, and the freight railroads whose tracks they use don't want them. Hence they trundle along at low overall speeds with very poor timekeeping (despite large amounts of schedule padding) and quite variable standards of on-board service. In terms of passenger transport, what real use is a train that runs three times per week (e.g. the Sunset Limited) ?

 

[HSTEd]

But the person who writes the 'Reason and Rail' blog is also of the opinion that the world was created by God 6,200 years ago.

Indeed, but I won't condemn all a person's opinions because I think one is mistaken.

 

[Emyr]

Indeed, but I won't condemn all a person's opinions because I think one is mistaken.

The inconsistent application of rational thought and logic undermines trust in his ability to form robust conclusions.

 

[HSTEd]

The inconsistent application of rational thought and logic undermines trust in his ability to form robust conclusions.

I actually had this discussion with him years ago, back before he even started that blog. Logic is only applicable to situations where God is not involved because otherwise the laws of reality will be bent to allow whatever God wants to do despite logic saying those things can't happen.

 

[talltim]

Surely God would be involved in everything?

 

[HSTEd]

Surely God would be involved in everything?

No, because if God was involved in everything it would eliminate free will.
This way God only intervenes directly at a fairly minor number of points so logical arguments work almost all the time.

 

[ac6000cw]

He is of the opinion the Long Distance trains should largely be dismantled and all the new Viewliners completed as passenger vehicles for more 'corridor' trains.

So to get back on-topic (ish), what is your opinion on the Amtrak long-distance train situation ?

 

[HSTEd]

So to get back on-topic (ish), what is your opinion on the Amtrak long-distance train situation ?

While they look nice they seem to haemmorhage money to no purpose.
Most ticket income on them appears to be based on relatively shorter hops which would be better served with day trains.

The only one that appears to come even close to covering costs is the Palmetto - which happens to be the one with no sleeping cars.

Perhaps if Xpress West ever actually happens then a Chicago-LA train would become sufficiently short in journey times to be useful as an actual transport mode.
But without that they appear to be tourist trains at non tourist prices.

 

[Royston Vasey]

So to get back on-topic (ish), what is your opinion on the Amtrak long-distance train situation ?

The Acela Express between Boston and Washington is the standout. It's a very impressive high speed service that has been very successful in its ten year life. It has an 75% share of non-road passenger flow Washington-New York against the airlines, doubling rail share since its inception, and over half of New York-Boston. Total trip a bit over 6 hours city centre to city centre.

25% of all Amtrak revenue comes from Acela, and a further 25% from the busier Northeast Corridor services (silver cylindrical coaches!). The route is shared between the two, plus NJ Transit, Metro North, Connecticut and Massachusetts commuter services. It's a unique route in the States though, with three major cities relatively close to each other where rail can compete with air, which is key to its profitability. San Francisco - Los Angeles - San Diego is one other potential example, at a push.

It has a steady average speed of 70mph end to end (some long stops) and a top speed of 150mph. It is very comfortable and the level of catering and service in First Class is way beyond that on a British train and more like business class on an airline.

It is only hamstrung by outdated catenary and pathing against commuter traffic on much of the route, but Amtrak has big plans to reduce journey times.

They're interesting train sets, built by Alstom and Bombardier, heavily overengineered for crash worthiness and as a result heavily overpowered, with over 12000 hp across the two power cars on only six coaches!

Sadly many of Obama's or Governors' plans for high speed rail elsewhere, such as LA to San Francisco, have been met with derision at the cost, which is a shame and I think short-sighted. Amtrak services are generally slow, sparse and underutilised, and demanding of heavy subsidy. British readers should bear in mind that air travel in this big a country is cheap, fast and popular for all strata of society; a train from New York to Chicago, say, is so long it will only ever be a tourist train with some short distance flow therein, so will never generate the revenue. That said, the lovely Pacific Surfliner double deck route down the Pacific coast is a wonderful journey, and I would say not expensive as a tourist or business train.