Trivia: services which ought to be lengthened

[Drsatan]

As the title suggests, please list any train services which ought to be lengthened due to overcrowding. Please don't include any services at their maximum length.

A few services which I feel must be lengthened are:

• 1F28 1623 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central. Currently a three car 158, and on the occasions I have used it is frequently full and standing upon departure from Southampton Central. This service ought to be at least five cars long to cope with the passenger volume.
• 1L16 0512 Yeovil Junction to London Waterloo. When I last used this service in February 2014, it was formed of two 159s. The service was full and standing from Basingstoke to Waterloo. Ideally ought to have a 158 attached.

I accept that lengthening many under-capacity services is going to be an impossible task due to rolling stock availability, platform lengths and for other operational reasons. Every now and then there's a discussion on this forum as to what constitutes overcrowding, why is x service shortformed, why has this service been worked by a pacer etc and so it would be worthwhile to have a list of services that ought to be lengthened. After all, the DfT's list of most overcrowded services doesn't feature any overcrowded XC services that ought to be formed of more than a single Voyager.

 

[PHILIPE]

Too numerous to list. You could say almost every XC to start with, which would be quieter at the end of the day.

 

[yorkie]

Presumably you're not including any services which are already at their maximum length?

Any 3-car 185 in the morning/evening peaks into/out of Manchester/Leeds! These trains are often full off-peak and unbearable at peak times.

 

[Drsatan]

Presumably you're not including any services which are already at their maximum length?

Any 3-car 185 in the morning/evening peaks into/out of Manchester/Leeds! These trains are often full off-peak and unbearable at peak times.

I've edited the post for clarity.

I just about got a seat on a peak-time departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Dewsbury, so I must have been one of the lucky ones.

 

[Rapidash]

Any services in D&C during the summer

As for your average, everyday stuff: 10:07 out of Paignton, especially when its a 4 car Voyager. I really don't understand why all the Mancs and Brums come down here even in mid winter!

In the opposite direction, any of the 17XX out of Exeter Central, especially the 1722 and its the wonderful 2 coaches of inadequacy Bladdy kids! I have, I suspect, vented about that one on a few occasions......

 

[thenorthern]

Crewe to Derby can be very bad but at other times empty. Buxton to Manchester at peak times is standing room only.

 

[Manchester77]

0722 Warrington - Oxford Road is usually a single 156 which is always packed as it enters suburban manchester. It calls at Humphrey Park though so until it is lengthened - it can't go much longer but really a 156+142/150 would be a relief.

 

[route:oxford]

As the title suggests, please list any train services which ought to be lengthened due to overcrowding. Please don't include any services at their maximum length.

Around half of the 170s that operate in Central Scotland and Aberdeen/Inverness need extending to 4 coaches.

I'd say all, but the infrastructure at the moment pretty much limits services to 7 coaches. So the remaining 170s would have to stay at 3 coaches until stations can be extended to accommodate 8 coaches.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Please don't include any services at their maximum length.

This is key to me; there are places where trains can never be longer than they already are, but in most of the country outside the south-east that's not the case. Overcrowding in the London area is inevitable despite the high capacity, and I don't envy commuters down there. But we have a system which seems to try to replicate that level of overcrowding everywhere, so if a four-car unit means everybody gets a seat, much more 'efficient' to run a three-car so that people have to stand, just like in London.

Wouldn't it be lovely if one of the benefits of moving away from London could be trains which are a civilised form of travel at all times of day? That won't happen of course, but to the ordinary passenger seeing a two-coach train turn up on a platform long enough for six, it just doesn't make sense.

(Yes, track-access charges, maintenance costs, no-growth franchises etc etc, but they're just symptoms of a system which has no aspiration to make trains an attractive way to travel).

So in answer to the question - too many to count.

(Time to wake up, enough dreaming)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not the worst out there but the 0550 Glasgow-Euston via Birmingham could do with being more than a single 221 (it currently joins to another at Wolves). Used to be oddly back in't day, now I've known it full and standing from Warrington. Doesn't help that people at Wolves swamp it even more as it's the most conveniently-located set in the platform, leaving a nice, empty 221 at the front until New St.

 

[Taunton]

Many services in London & SE OUTSIDE the peaks which get cut down to absolute minimum length and are grossly overcrowded while half or more of the fleet sits in sidings.

Thameslink route running 4-car Brighton to Bedford on Saturday mid-morning, standing by Gatwick, leaving people behind by East Croydon.

C2C running minimum 4-car leaving Fenchurch St at 2230 on summer Friday evenings, full and standing well before departure time.

Southern running a 2-car dmu at 0800 London Bridge to East Croydon (Uckfield unit), supposedly against the peak (ha-ha). Had come in much longer but seemed rest had already been sent off to depot.

Chiltern and GW both running 2-car dmu out of their main terminus at weekends. One GW leaving Paddington for Slough seemed to have more passengers than a 9-car Heathrow Express leaving at the same time.

 

[Trainfan344]

2J82 "The St. Trinians express" It is usually formed of a 156, but I feel it could use either a 153 added to it or a Class 170 as it gets all the school kids on, and is often Standing room only. (Yes, I know that measures have been put in place to ease the overcrowding, but still let me have my complaint!)

Any XC service after departure from Birmingham New Street.

 

[Fincra5]

Many services in London & SE OUTSIDE the peaks which get cut down to absolute minimum length and are grossly overcrowded while half or more of the fleet sits in sidings.

Thameslink route running 4-car Brighton to Bedford on Saturday mid-morning, standing by Gatwick, leaving people behind by East Croydon.

C2C running minimum 4-car leaving Fenchurch St at 2230 on summer Friday evenings, full and standing well before departure time.

Southern running a 2-car dmu at 0800 London Bridge to East Croydon (Uckfield unit), supposedly against the peak (ha-ha). Had come in much longer but seemed rest had already been sent off to depot.

Chiltern and GW both running 2-car dmu out of their main terminus at weekends. One GW leaving Paddington for Slough seemed to have more passengers than a 9-car Heathrow Express leaving at the same time.

Bugger.. I guess they should stop cleaning and doing maintenance on the trains during Off-Peak then...

 

[Techniquest]

Any XC service after departure from Birmingham New Street.

What, even on the 0603?! One thinks not...

So many services need lengthening, but only on certain sections, and even then only on certain days. A perfect example would be on a trip from Manchester down the Marches. Most trains can be absolutely rammed leaving Manchester, but by Crewe they're reasonable again. Unless it's the wrong time of day and the first crowd have been replaced with another of the same size if not bigger. Even then, by Shrewsbury it's usually fine again anyway.

So in that example extra capacity's only really an issue for the Manchester to Shrewsbury leg.

Another example that comes to mind is Euston to Crewe with LM. Extra capacity south of Stafford along the Trent Valley would be hugely welcome, between Stafford and Crewe you'd be OK. Shame really that the signalling and track layout, not to mention the flighting of trains through the area, doesn't allow a 350 to be banged on/ripped off at Stafford, as that would solve the problem for the worse parts of the day well.

Fortunately sometimes TOCs do take action with capacity issues, and I will praise LM here. The 0849 Hereford to Birmingham New Street used to be rammed very badly with just a 2-car 170/5 on it. Those who've been on the 0849, or its inward working the 0659 Birmingham New Street to Hereford, will be aware how heavily loaded both services are. Fortunately it's now usually a 170/5 and a 153 or 170/6 on both workings and the comfort level has risen significantly.

 

[harry42]

When its bloody 2 coaches between Nottingham and Manchester at Friday AFternoon Rush Hour

 

[Statto]

Liverpool South Parkway/Liverpool Lime Street-Blackpool North does need 4 car units throughout the day this service is always heaving, as does the Liverpool-Nottingham section of the Liverpool-Norwich service & maybe 6 car units on some afternoon services.

 

[Taunton]

Bugger.. I guess they should stop cleaning and doing maintenance on the trains during Off-Peak then...

Yes yes yes, this old chestnut as ever from the fitters.

If you think all those C2C units sat in East Ham and Shoeburyness sidings late on Friday night are being cleaned and maintained then you must believe in fairies. In fact it must be fairies doing the work, because as you pass them all it is apparent that the cleaning and maintenance on them is being done with all their lights off.

One of the extraordinary things about modern stock is that, while my car on the road goes in for a service at an interval four times greater than one bought a generation ago (and needs hardly anything doing even then), railway rolling stock has gone the other way, if the maintenance engineering apologists are to be believed. It seems that 75% of the fleet now needs to be under maintenance from 1900 on Friday evening to 0700 on Monday morning, plus the middle of the day, plus ...... plus ......... What an enormous cost in fitters labour and spares etc it must be nowadays.