Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've tried everything I can think of to circumvent this. I've powered right down and switched my machine back on. Logged off and on and so on, every time the same, it behaves normally until I click on any image in the Web Album and then I'm stumped.

I can't help with Picasa, but I can see all the photos you have just added. Another very interesting set.
There seems to be a wide variety of bases installed around Edge Hill, including the "pancake" type used near Manchester Victoria.

 

[LDECRexile]

I can't help with Picasa, but I can see all the photos you have just added. Another very interesting set.
There seems to be a wide variety of bases installed around Edge Hill, including the "pancake" type used near Manchester Victoria.

Indeed, pancakes, six-bolts and all sorts, but I still can't land on them, give 'em captions or owt.

Megamiffing

Hope someone can bail me out.

 

[8A Rail]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can anyone please help me?

I went out and about today and have added 24 photos to the Picasa Web Album I have used on this site for some time. So far, so good.

I then went into it in the usual way by clicking on the first of the newly added photos to start adding descriptions. Instead of bringing up the image and inviting me to add a caption it takes me, unbidden, to a screen whereby I can order an image. I can't see any options from that screen to get me back to where I want to go and the back arrow takes me to the first image of the Album, but without any navigation arrows, so I'm up a blind alley.

I've tried everything I can think of to circumvent this. I've powered right down and switched my machine back on. Logged off and on and so on, every time the same, it behaves normally until I click on any image in the Web Album and then I'm stumped.

There are 405 images in there now. Have I infringed some size limit?

I'm off out in half an hour, back about 22:30.

Click into Album in question. Then click on image in question. At bottom of image, where caption is already placed, click "edit" icon on r/h/s of caption. If no caption there, the click "add a caption" at bottom of image. Caption box comes up and then click "save caption" when completed. Nowt to do with site size limit as the limit is quite large. HTH.

 

[LDECRexile]

Click into Album in question. Then click on image in question. At bottom of image, where caption is already placed, click "edit" icon on r/h/s of caption. If no caption there, the click "add a caption" at bottom of image. Caption box comes up and then click "save caption" when completed. Nowt to do with site size limit as the limit is quite large. HTH.

Dear Doug

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. What you describe is exactly what I normally do and what I have tried today until my fingers are worn smooth. The problem occurs when I 'click on the image in question' it then throws me into an "order a print" screen. If I then click on the back arrow to get back where I came from it throws me to the first image of the album and says a slide show will show, except it doesn't, it just sits there.

I'm glad we've eliminated size. I wonder if it is treating me as if I'm a stranger not the owner? I have noticed before today that whenever I've gone into Picasa I enter my login and password, then when I click on "Web folders" it asks me for my user name and password again. This afternoon and evening, however, it hasn't been asking me to login the 2nd time.

I'm clutching at straws here.

Yours cluelessly

Dave

 

[8A Rail]

Dear Doug
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. What you describe is exactly what I normally do and what I have tried today until my fingers are worn smooth. The problem occurs when I 'click on the image in question' it then throws me into an "order a print" screen. If I then click on the back arrow to get back where I came from it throws me to the first image of the album and says a slide show will show, except it doesn't, it just sits there.
I'm glad we've eliminated size. I wonder if it is treating me as if I'm a stranger not the owner? I have noticed before today that whenever I've gone into Picasa I enter my login and password, then when I click on "Web folders" it asks me for my user name and password again. This afternoon and evening, however, it hasn't been asking me to login the 2nd time.
I'm clutching at straws here. Yours cluelessly. Dave

Im sorry to hear that but sadly I'm off to bed and away for 36 hrs otherwise, would attempt to help you further. If the problem persists, then when I get back I will attempt to assist again, may be by phone? Fingers cross and the issue is solved shortly.

 

[LDECRexile]

I visited Wavertree and Roby and passed Allerton Depot yesterday.

I saw lots to confirm recent reports by others.

I've added 24 new photos here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

I had great difficulty with Picasa yesterday evening. I would appreciate any feedback whether this is behaving normally from your point of view as viewers.

 

[snowball]

I see you eventually managed to add the captions.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've added 24 new photos here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

The last picture is an emergency fish plate, it can reinforce the track round some sort of flaw - in this case there's possibly some sort of defect that isn't affecting the part of the rail head that we can see, so it might be a problem with the web or foot that is out of sight.

 

[Geeves]

Great shots LDEC. It seems Network rail dont really trust the old OHLE down towards Hunts Cross. I guess this will mean they can shunt down that way and then return towards towards South Parkway eventually or even one day run on towards the CLC?

Would be nice!!

 

[LDECRexile]

The last picture is an emergency fish plate, it can reinforce the track round some sort of flaw - in this case there's possibly some sort of defect that isn't affecting the part of the rail head that we can see, so it might be a problem with the web or foot that is out of sight.

Prompt, helpful and informative, thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Great shots LDEC. It seems Network rail dont really trust the old OHLE down towards Hunts Cross. I guess this will mean they can shunt down that way and then return towards towards South Parkway eventually or even one day run on towards the CLC?

Would be nice!!

NR seem to prefer to install new kit at all the interfaces with old - Wavertree, Springs Branch, Bamfurlong and Earlestown. Some of the old at Wavertree looks pretty flimsy.

The join near Hunts Cross will allow return to South Parkway immediately and will help towards an eventual run along the CLC, which would be nice indeed!

 

[DJH1971]

Prompt, helpful and informative, thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


NR seem to prefer to install new kit at all the interfaces with old - Wavertree, Springs Branch, Bamfurlong and Earlestown. Some of the old at Wavertree looks pretty flimsy.

The join near Hunts Cross will allow return to South Parkway immediately and will help towards an eventual run along the CLC, which would be nice indeed!

The CLC line has surely got to be a future candidate for electrification?

 

[Wavertreelad]

The CLC line has surely got to be a future candidate for electrification?

Merseytravel have it on the radar for running trains through to Warrington which would presumably mean electrification, but if it is it will surely be 25 kv.

 

[thealexweb]

Merseytravel have it on the radar for running trains through to Warrington which would presumably mean electrification, but if it is it will surely be 25 kv.

Should we really be installing more 3rd rail? Network Rail have made it clear that it believes overhead is the way forward.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes it would be pretty daft to extend third rail to Warrington. Third rail to Manchester would be impossible as without the bay at Oxford Road there is nowhere to turn them back, unless the units are dual voltage in which case it would be better to go with OLE. Third rail to Warrington would weaken the business case for OLE over the entire route and make it much more likely to remain a diesel island for longer. Unless Warrington Central was converted into an all-change station like Ormskirk, which would be neither attractive nor practical.

 

[thealexweb]

Do Northern Rail's Class 319s still have working third rail equipment? If they do, would it not be more appropriate for Merseyrail to obtain them (or other dual voltage units) instead. This would allow for the gradual removal of all 3rd rail and the installation of overhead wires. I know this would take decades but it should definitely be the end goal.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Should we really be installing more 3rd rail? Network Rail have made it clear that it believes overhead is the way forward.

My thoughts exactly. Merseytravel has put on record in it's 30 year plan that the replacement stock for the 507/508's would be dual voltage thus suggesting that any extensions to Merseyrail network would be electrified at 25kv. This would then allow the existing 3rd rail to be replaced gradually over the lifetime of the any new stock which would be expected to remain in service beyond 2040.

 

[WatcherZero]

Theres no point in removing existing 3rd rail from Merseyside, their network is not constrained by power supply limitation and they arent operating freight. They dont have the problem of 10 carriage trains running at 100mph drinking the system dry. If the city line was 3rd rail it would make sense to changeover there but it isnt and there is no justification for on the other lines.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Theres no point in removing existing 3rd rail from Merseyside, their network is not constrained by power supply limitation and they arent operating freight. They dont have the problem of 10 carriage trains running at 100mph drinking the system dry. If the city line was 3rd rail it would make sense to changeover there but it isnt and there is no justification for on the other lines.

I don't think anybody is suggesting removing the existing 3rd rail system in the immediate future, but at some stage in the future the equipment will be due for renewal and at that stage the replacement will take place, hence why any new stock has to be dual voltage.

 

[edwin_m]

Do Northern Rail's Class 319s still have working third rail equipment? If they do, would it not be more appropriate for Merseyrail to obtain them (or other dual voltage units) instead. This would allow for the gradual removal of all 3rd rail and the installation of overhead wires. I know this would take decades but it should definitely be the end goal.

I believe the shoes are being removed but they could be put back if there was a need - although as they are not retractable they may foul the gauge on some Northern routes. However I don't think a unit with 25% of axles powered would be acceptable on the damp, steep and twisty tracks of the Mersey tunnels - the existing stock has motors on two thirds of axles.

 

[mcnw35282]

The 3rd rail system has worked (almost) perfectly for over 100 years...why bother ripping it all up and installing ole? Besides, the underground loop and link tunnels don't have enough clearance for overhead wires.

 

[Llama]

Shoes and shoe fuses are indeed being removed.

 

[HSTEd]

Should we really be installing more 3rd rail? Network Rail have made it clear that it believes overhead is the way forward.

Because overhead wiring was cheaper.

I am pretty sure that myth is being exploded by dreadful NR budgetary performance on those much-admired 'low cost' 25kV schemes.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Because overhead wiring was cheaper.

I am pretty sure that myth is being exploded by dreadful NR budgetary performance on those much-admired 'low cost' 25kV schemes.

Not fully fair, because how many 300+ mile DC electrification schemes have there been recently to compare it with? The biggest issue with the current electrification programme is with those responsible for estimating the costs not getting it right (whether by accident or design I am not at liberty to say) - a DC alternative would run into the same issues, I fear.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not fully fair, because how many 300+ mile DC electrification schemes have there been recently to compare it with? The biggest issue with the current electrification programme is with those responsible for estimating the costs not getting it right (whether by accident or design I am not at liberty to say) - a DC alternative would run into the same issues, I fear.

And the reduced costs of AC are in the lower running costs (regeneration etc) rather than the initial capital costs.
It's the easiest trick in the book to offer a cost price (to meet a budget) which has so many qualifications it doesn't stand a chance of being implemented at that cost.
I seem to remember the initial NW and TP costs excluded any new grid connections (the assumption being that existing WCML/ECML connections would suffice).
But that isn't what is being rolled out...

 

[HSTEd]

The running cost savings on routes like Ormskirk-Southport or Ormskirk-Preston are going to be tiny.

Which means the far higher capital cost of 25kV will nto be able to beat the 750V system which will be cheaper.
And considering only ~6-car multiple units a few times an hour will run you will be able to use relatively lightweight OTS metro type substations rather tha the bespoke monsters required on southern region.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah but factor in the work that would be involved in adapting Preston for a DC line.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The running cost savings on routes like Ormskirk-Southport or Ormskirk-Preston are going to be tiny.

Which means the far higher capital cost of 25kV will nto be able to beat the 750V system which will be cheaper.
And considering only ~6-car multiple units a few times an hour will run you will be able to use relatively lightweight OTS metro type substations rather tha the bespoke monsters required on southern region.

Yeah but factor in the work that would be involved in adapting Preston for a DC line.

I totally agree. 25Kv AC OHLE makes sense for future and commonsense IMHO -at least to Burscough Jct. Dual voltage units then opens up a plethora of route/service opportunities and the business case gets stronger.

 

[DJH1971]

Well, still no word from NR over the delay to phase 2.

Yet on NR's website, it is still listing it as 'December 2014'.

With only 2 months left, they now need to start being upfront.

 

[LDECRexile]

I attach the "where we are up to" spreadsheet. It includes a prototype summary worksheet.

Please see below.

 

[Geeves]

The Network rail Wiring train is currently parked on platform 4 at Victoria. Hoorah!

Its not doing anything but still