Replacement bus - should TOCs keep empty seats next to 1ST passengers?

[DelayRepay]

On the other hand, better to have an uncomfortable bus than no bus at all. I would be more sympathetic if they send an uncomfortable bus during unplanned disruption. If the bus is needed due to planned works, then I would hope that they'd send an appropriate vehicle. I am, often, disappointed

 

[notadriver]

I'll be driving a rail replacement bus this weekend and hope to provide an experience superior than the other regular rail replacement drivers can give.

On a semi-serious note : I think the TOC should not discourage it's first class fare paying clientele. They should be put in taxis as most train crew are (with some exceptions).

I don't understand why people don't get that 1sr class pax will see any bus or coach replacement as a downgrade from the train.

 

[DelayRepay]

I'll be driving a rail replacement bus this weekend and hope to provide an experience superior than the other regular rail replacement drivers can give.

How will you do that? I know some coaches have coffee machines so maybe free coffee could be provided (only on production of a First Class ticket)?

 

[notadriver]

How will you do that? I know some coaches have coffee machines so maybe free coffee could be provided (only on production of a First Class ticket)?

I can't do that but most rail replacement bus drivers have no clue about tickets, connections or projected journey times. The usual response is 'I'm just the bus driver'. I've got the apps on my phone to check various things and a working knowledge of the railway

 

[RJ]

I'm driving rail replacements this weekend between Bank and Canary Wharf. Everybody will be greeted with a warm smile and a "hello", which is more customer service than what the DLR's drivers offer. Up to 6 lucky passengers may even get a seat with a view out of the front window, without the risk of being turfed out

 

[Busaholic]

I'm driving rail replacements this weekend between Bank and Canary Wharf. Everybody will be greeted with a warm smile and a "hello", which is more customer service than what the DLR's drivers offer. Up to 6 lucky passengers may even get a seat with a view out of the front window, without the risk of being turfed out

That's because the guy at the front ain't the driver.

 

[Abpj17]

I'll be driving a rail replacement bus this weekend and hope to provide an experience superior than the other regular rail replacement drivers can give.

On a semi-serious note : I think the TOC should not discourage it's first class fare paying clientele. They should be put in taxis as most train crew are (with some exceptions).

I don't understand why people don't get that 1sr class pax will see any bus or coach replacement as a downgrade from the train.

Perhaps a down-grade from inter-city services, but arguably an upgrade from most commuter services.

 

[RJ]

That's because the guy at the front ain't the driver.

No way

 

[muz379]

On a slightly related matter... if there's emergency bustitution part way through your journey and you have a large suitcase, which is normally not allowed on rail replacement buses, what are you supposed to do? Pay for your own taxi?

Having had a bike when there was an emergency bustitution before today I have usually found the coach drivers a little more understanding than if you turned up at the coach station with a bike and they managed to fit it in ,

The other time I have had a bustitution the coach driver was also very helpful helping people with extremely large luggage so Im willing to bet they are probably more relaxed when it comes to working railway replacement busses than if you catch a coach yourself from the bus station .

Ive also seen them take dogs even though the coach in question had a sign saying no pets .

As for the first class passengers , they should be given a refund to standard class if they wish to continue the journey on a coach , and if they dont wish to take the journey on a coach and want to organise some way for themselves to do the journey they should get a refund on the full journey .

Maybe if you had 3 first class passengers all traveling to the same place you could put them all in a direct taxi as a gesture instead of putting them on a stopping coach that might take a roundabout journey

 

[notadriver]

Interesting points : I normally drive coaches so I'd normally be able to accommodate a bicycle. In a standard double decker I won't

The taxi solution works best if the train service doesn't continue later on. Invariably it does however meaning passengers using the taxi will have to be wait for pax from the coach to catch up anyway. So yes a refund is best but it seems a hassle to fill out paperwork etc etc.

As for whether a bus/coach is an up or downgrade from the train the proof is in the pudding. Passengers once had the choice of waiting for a rail replacement bus calling all stations direct or remaining on the train which ran fast to the ultimate destination but the long way around. (So near identical journey time) Those that were travelling to the end of the line stayed on board the train including train crew travelling passenger.

 

[notadriver]

That's because the guy at the front ain't the driver.

The passenger service agents get a lot of abuse on the DLR and they have nowhere to take refuge unlike a bus driver behind an assault screen.

I do wish the DLR PSAs were called train operators like on the underground. Northern, Jubilee, Victoria and Central lines are all automatically driven yet still have 'drivers' who open and shut doors and who drive in degraded situations. The DLR is no different.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm driving rail replacements this weekend between Bank and Canary Wharf. Everybody will be greeted with a warm smile and a "hello", which is more customer service than what the DLR's drivers offer. Up to 6 lucky passengers may even get a seat with a view out of the front window, without the risk of being turfed out

Serious question - what are the instructions on checking tickets on bus replacement services?

 

[radamfi]

As an aside, I was surprised to see that many of the new coach services started in Germany since coach deregulation last year carry bicycles.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I don't understand why people don't get that 1sr class pax will see any bus or coach replacement as a downgrade from the train.

Simple solution - 1st class passengers get a seat inside the coach, standard class passengers go on the roof.

 

[Clip]

The passenger service agents get a lot of abuse on the DLR and they have nowhere to take refuge unlike a bus driver behind an assault screen.

I do wish the DLR PSAs were called train operators like on the underground. Northern, Jubilee, Victoria and Central lines are all automatically driven yet still have 'drivers' who open and shut doors and who drive in degraded situations. The DLR is no different.

Well they were called train captains once upon a time. But their role is vastly different to the train operators on the underground as they check tickets, give updates on service, inform passengers about connections to be made and also with Excel let them know which station out of the two is the best one for which ever event is on.

They dont just open and close doors.

 

[notadriver]

Serious question - what are the instructions on checking tickets on bus replacement services?

To check that they one. If course RJ and myself could further check validity but unless they are obvious troublemakers I don't cause myself unnecessary hassle.

 

[notadriver]

Well they were called train captains once upon a time. But their role is vastly different to the train operators on the underground as they check tickets, give updates on service, inform passengers about connections to be made and also with Excel let them know which station out of the two is the best one for which ever event is on.



They dont just open and close doors.

Very very true. Has anyone noticed if drivers on ATO lines are doing more announcements - they seem to be. It's more impressive if a train driver manually driving (overground or underground) gives them.

 

[radamfi]

To check that they one.

I thought that was generally only done by railway staff?

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

As an aside, I was surprised to see that many of the new coach services started in Germany since coach deregulation last year carry bicycles.

The Oxford tube bus service between Oxford and London carries bicycles. When I lived in Oxford I usually took the bus rather than the train.

 

[radamfi]

The Oxford tube bus service between Oxford and London carries bicycles. When I lived in Oxford I usually took the bus rather than the train.

Does any other coach in the UK take bikes? Historically, people with bikes obviously used trains because there was capacity for them, but with modern rolling stock and more crowded trains, taking bikes on trains is becoming a hassle. If coach companies are smart, they could exploit this.

I would guess the Oxford Tube is more cycle friendly as they presumably don't carry much luggage due to the short distance.

 

[Busaholic]

I thought that was generally only done by railway staff?

Certainly in the London area that's true - the bus driver may be able to ensure the passenger is on the right bus/coach. How is he/she able to check whether the oystercard has been validated?! In any case, as oysters are only validated on joining buses but at exit too on trains the passenger could get charged at the daily 'cap' level for a one station journey on a replacement bus. I would think most bus drivers would welcome being freed from some of the pressures of their daily duties and, possibly, the opportunity for pastures new, assuming the latter weren't found by taking a wrong route!

 

[Mark_re]

Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but I've taken a long-term rail replacement bus from Prague to Nuremburg. It was a DB-liveried double-decker coach. I had a 1st class ticket from Prague to Cologne, but I was extremely surprised to be duly conveyed in the 1st class section of the bus!

In reality, it was a bit daft really, as 2nd class is upstairs, with 2+2 airline seating and 1st class is downstairs with all seats around tables. There is a coffee machine (which the driver demonstrated how to use to me and the one other 1st class passenger!) and a selection of literature in German.

It being the continent, the coach is not particularly high and so the downstairs headroom is only about 5'6", which makes the journey a bit uncomfortable. However, I appreciated the coffee (after a lads' weekend in Prague) and somewhere to spread out my newspaper.

Mark

 

[radamfi]

Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but I've taken a long-term rail replacement bus from Prague to Nuremburg. It was a DB-liveried double-decker coach. I had a 1st class ticket from Prague to Cologne, but I was extremely surprised to be duly conveyed in the 1st class section of the bus!

In reality, it was a bit daft really, as 2nd class is upstairs, with 2+2 airline seating and 1st class is downstairs with all seats around tables. There is a coffee machine (which the driver demonstrated how to use to me and the one other 1st class passenger!) and a selection of literature in German.

It being the continent, the coach is not particularly high and so the downstairs headroom is only about 5'6", which makes the journey a bit uncomfortable. However, I appreciated the coffee (after a lads' weekend in Prague) and somewhere to spread out my newspaper.

Mark

That sounds like a regular IC Bus, with the downstairs reclassified as 1st class for use on rail replacement.

http://www.bahn.de/faq/view/mdb/bah...aq/mdb_158069_140625_aktuelle_faqs_ic_bus.pdf

1.3 Welche Wagenklassen gibt es in den IC Bussen? Gibt es auch einen 1. Klasse-Bereich im IC Bus?

In den IC Bussen gibt es nur die 2. Wagenklasse.

 

[mister-sparky]

This is 2014. ALL first class accomodation on trains should be scrapped. It's ridiculous and so out-dated!

 

[radamfi]

This is 2014. ALL first class accomodation on trains should be scrapped. It's ridiculous and so out-dated!

I think Britain has moved more towards the end of First Class than many other countries. In Britain, there is only Standard Class on most local journeys (especially outside the SE) and even on some more higher standard services such as domestic HS1 and Chiltern.

The main difference is that First Class is much less accessible to normal people in Britain, other than offers such as Advance fares and Weekend First, and even there, you may still have coaches reserved for full fare payers. In our neighbouring countries, 1st class is not designed exclusively for business and rich people as it reasonably affordable.

 

[Llanigraham]

This is 2014. ALL first class accomodation on trains should be scrapped. It's ridiculous and so out-dated!

Why?
I'm quite happy to pay extra for a bigger seat, more leg room, quieter surroundings and generally a free coffee and food, as are other people.
Would you also ban First Class on airlines or elsewhere?
Would you also take this to a logical conclusion and ban "posh" cars?

 

[londiscape]

Why?
I'm quite happy to pay extra for a bigger seat, more leg room, quieter surroundings and generally a free coffee and food, as are other people.
Would you also ban First Class on airlines or elsewhere?
Would you also take this to a logical conclusion and ban "posh" cars?

And posh trains. Pacers for all?

 

[Antman]

What is outrageous is when coaches only suitable for carrying young school children are used. It is debatable whether 3+2 seating is acceptable on trains but I don't think it should even be legal to use such coaches to carry adults or more fully grown teenagers. The seats clearly simply aren't wide enough.

I understand your point but in an emergency I guess TOC's have to take whatever is available, an uncomfortable coach is better than no coach at all.

I find the biggest gripe from passengers is about paying a train fare for a road journey although with no ticket checks I wonder how many do actually pay?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can't do that but most rail replacement bus drivers have no clue about tickets, connections or projected journey times. The usual response is 'I'm just the bus driver'. I've got the apps on my phone to check various things and a working knowledge of the railway

I think most bus/coach companies have a regular pool of drivers for weekend rail replacement work who do actually know a bit about the rail network, obviously on emergency jobs it is whatever drivers are avaialable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I managed to get three entirely different levels of RRB in what would normally be one direct journey on a 377 from Brighton to Ore a few months back.

The first leg from Lewes to Polegate was on a relatively comfortable if draughty Brighton & Hove Scania Omnidekka, the second leg to Hastings was one of Go-Ahead London's stiff-seated single deckers complete with warnings from the driver not to put an Oyster card near the reader, and the last leg from Hastings - Ore was an absolutely lovely modern coach with plush seats and interior, and the driver stopped anywhere anyone wanted to get off!

Surely the oyster reader wouldn't be working anyway, ie red light showing?

Many drivers are quite happy to drop people off anywhere on route.

 

[radamfi]

I understand your point but in an emergency I guess TOC's have to take whatever is available, an uncomfortable coach is better than no coach at all.

Southern use them regularly on scheduled rail replacements.

 

[notadriver]

I don't think it's a good idea to start dropping people off anywhere on the route on rail replacement. A queue soon builds and it's annoying for others on the bus. It's slightly different if the vehicle is near empty and late at night though.