Train ticket machine did not print all tickets..SO NOW BEEN PENALISED

[Squaddie]

If I book tickets a week in advance and only leave myself ten minutes to collect them, I've nobody but myself to blame if I don't have enough time to sort things out before the train leaves.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to think that ten minutes is enough time to obtain a rail ticket prior to a journey, whether the ticket is bought at the counter or collected from a machine, and also to expect the machine to function properly.

People think nothing of arriving 90 minutes early for a flight, but leave 10 minutes (or less!) to collect tickets and catch a train.

The analogy is not a fair one: a journey by air is very different indeed in many ways to a journey by train.

 

[najaB]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to think that ten minutes is enough time to obtain a rail ticket prior to a journey, whether the ticket is bought at the counter or collected from a machine, and also to expect the machine to function properly.

Agreed that in the majority of cases it will be enough time. However, if I book a ticket 10080 minutes before my train is due to depart, but wait until 10 minutes before it leaves to collect the ticket, can I really expect the TOC to 'let it slide'?

The analogy is not a fair one: a journey by air is very different indeed in many ways to a journey by train.

It's not intended as a direct comparison, more to the difference in attitude. People generally budget way more time than needed to get through an airport, but often don't leave enough time for trains.

 

[radamfi]

I look forward to the day when we can have the option of e-tickets send to smartphones rather than small bits of cardboard which have to collected at a station.

Belgian and Swiss Railways already offer mobile ticketing for all domestic tickets. Dutch Railways do Oyster style pay as you go nationwide.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Agreed that in the majority of cases it will be enough time. However, if I book a ticket 10080 minutes before my train is due to depart, but wait until 10 minutes before it leaves to collect the ticket, can I really expect the TOC to 'let it slide'?
It's not intended as a direct comparison, more to the difference in attitude. People generally budget way more time than needed to get through an airport, but often don't leave enough time for trains.

If you don't live near the station or pass a station then it is entirely reasonable not to have to make two trips to the station.

 

[Hadders]

Let's not get distracted here. The issue is not how long the OP left before he collected the tickets, it's the fact that apparently not all the tickets were printed.

What would have the outcome if the OP had gone to the station three weeks before to print the tickets and not got all of them? Okay, I admit there is more time to try and get it sorted but how many TOC's would say there is nothing we can do?

 

[Greenback]

That is exactly the point, Hadders. There would be time to resolve the issue. I fI am unable to collect tickets ahead of time, then I'd certainly leave more than 10 minutes at the station to do so, just in case something goes wrong and I need to get it sorted out.

Just like if I fly somewhere I leave in plenty of time to get to the airport to allow for something going wrong en route.

All this sad tale does is to remind me what can happen sometimes, and I wouldn't want to be in the same position as the OP found themselves.

 

[radamfi]

I will only travel by train now if I can pick up tickets beforehand, or use a smartcard/contactless card. It is not worth the risk picking them up or buying them on the day in case there is a big queue. So the railway loses business. If we were able to use a smartcard nationwide or have the ticket on a phone then I could do a lot more spontaneous travelling.

 

[najaB]

If you don't live near the station or pass a station then it is entirely reasonable not to have to make two trips to the station.

Agreed.

However, I have been caught out trying to time it 'just right' and getting delayed by a slow ticket machine. At least in my case it was an off-peak return ticket so it just meant I was a couple of hours late, but not out of pocket.

So now, when I'm travelling I either pick up my tickets from the station a day or two beforehand (my office is within walking distance of the station), or when I can't pick them up beforehand (maybe I've been working out of another company site all week), I'll leave aiming to be at the station 15 minutes or so before the train which gives me time to go to the ticket window if there's a problem.

It's a lot less stressful waiting on the platform for ten minutes, than watching the tail lights of my train disappearing in the distance.

 

[Greenback]

One never knows what might happen. While I am happy to arrive early for a short distance trip on a frequent service, especially if I am not in a time sensitive situation, for a long journey with the possibility of serious consequences, I would much prefer to have to time to kill with a ticket in my hand than be in an agitated state having suffered the problem of not being able to retrieve or buy a ticket for some reason.

It's not how it should be, but I prefer to deal with things as they are in reality than in theory. I learnt my lesson London buses a long time ago when I thought I'd left plenty of time to get to the theatre but ended up missing the first ten minutes.

 

[455driver]

Let's not get distracted here. The issue is not how long the OP left before he collected the tickets, it's the fact that apparently not all the tickets were printed.

The OP said there was a slight pause, that doesnt necessarily follow that the tickets were not printed, just that the OP didnt wait long enough for the machine to finish printing.

Quote from the OP-

I was in a bit of a hurry because my train was in 10 minutes, so in the heat of the moment I just assumed that was all the tickets;

 

[Flamingo]

One thing I can never understand, if EVERYBODY turns up five minutes before their train at any station, how many ticket windows do posters think stations have?

 

[VauxhallandI]

As many as you like, if only two are open it wouldn't matter....

 

[Hadders]

Thinking about it, I once collected some tickets from the single East Coast TVM at Stevenage. The TVM was on a huge go slow pausing for several seconds before printing each coupon, not its normal behaviour at all.

I suspected the TVM was having difficulty in connecting to the central server. It got there in the end but I very nearly gave up.

Not sure how I'd have got on if I'd have given up. The booking office was closed at the time and although I wasn't travelling that day I wonder what EC's response would have been to a claim that not all f the tickets printed.

 

[oversteer]

The exact same thing happened to me a few years ago at Kings Cross, and although I paid in full on the train, I wrote to East Coast (maybe it was National Express) and they refunded me in full.

 

[maniacmartin]

I've noticed a bigger lag between printing each ticket seems to be more common lately. Perhaps this is related to ATOC moving the National Reservation System to another contractor recently?

 

[craigwilson]

Agreed that in the majority of cases it will be enough time. However, if I book a ticket 10080 minutes before my train is due to depart, but wait until 10 minutes before it leaves to collect the ticket, can I really expect the TOC to 'let it slide'?

The clue is in the name. TOD = ticket(s) on departure. If their machine malfunctions it is their responsibility to help you, whatever you may think.

 

[bb21]

Well, it is, but if you don't allow sufficient time for matters to be dealt with, you are not giving them a chance to help you.

 

[Greenback]

The clue is in the name. TOD = ticket(s) on departure. If their machine malfunctions it is their responsibility to help you, whatever you may think.

To be honest, I'd rather allow myself plenty of time where necessary, as I'd prefer to be on the train rather than standing in line waiting to be helped at the ticket office.

This is a pragmatic view in my opinion that takes into account the realities of the world rather than an ideal state of affairs where nothing breaks down or goes wrong, there are no queues and things can be sorted out in 30 seconds or less.

Similarly, it's much easier than buying a new ticket on board for a time sensitive journey and then having to sort it out later on.

 

[broadgage]

I seem to remember adverts that stated one could purchase tickets in advance and collect them from a machine before travel so as to "avoid the queue"

Several respected members are now suggesting that one should allow more than ten minutes for what should be a brief transaction in case things go wrong.

The selecting, purchasing and collecting of rail tickets seems to be becoming more complex and more time consuming every year.
I can remember it being not only simpler, but also quicker.

 

[radamfi]

I would suggest that in the event of a long queue there should be greater leniency given to passengers without a ticket if they are carrying their booking reference.

 

[Haywain]

I would suggest that in the event of a long queue there should be greater leniency given to passengers without a ticket if they are carrying their booking reference.

But the bloke on the train (guard, RPI etc) can't see the queue, so how does he know it's a long queue? Or do we just go by the ticketless passenger's opinion?

 

[Flamingo]

Why? What's a long queue? How does the person checking tickets (potentially an hour after leaving the station, or even on a different train) know there was a queue?

If there are problems with TVM's at atation, we usually get told that passengers may have difficulty printing them.

A few times a week I will get people leaving Paddington who say they had not got time to print their ticket - or it was too far to walk to print them. This is usually to destinations that have to wait at most for a 30 minute service.

 

[radamfi]

But the bloke on the train (guard, RPI etc) can't see the queue, so how does he know it's a long queue? Or do we just go by the ticketless passenger's opinion?

He's highly unlikely to be travelling fraudulently compared to someone with no booking reference.

 

[bb21]

He's highly unlikely to be travelling fraudulently compared to someone with no booking reference.

Then we will be back down the path of "he could have given his ticket to a friend if we allowed people to travel with only their booking confirmation", etc.

I don't think there is a magic wand until things such as electronic ticketing becomes more wide-spread. Until then it is not possible to bypass the use of station facilities. I would advise anyone in those cases to leave ample time in case things go wrong (and they do from time to time because we don't live in an ideal world).

The fact is that passenger numbers are growing and ticket office staffing levels have been cut so the problem with queues would only get worse if nothing is done. I very rarely leave ticket collection to the day of travel if booked in advance these days for precisely that reason. Sometimes paying a few quid to go to the station the day before collecting all the tickets I need for the following day is worth the peace of mind imo.

 

[radamfi]

But if you are carrying the card required to pick up the tickets, that should be reasonable proof that it is your booking reference.

 

[Greenback]

Picking tickets up shortly before the journey is the least favourite of the options for me. I'd much rather have them sent to me, or pick them up beforehand. But if I can't do either of these, then yes, I would allow more than ten minutes. But then for a long journey I am usually at the station before that point anyway, unless something has gone seriously wrong en route.

 

[bb21]

But if you are carrying the card required to pick up the tickets, that should be reasonable proof that it is your booking reference.

Booking confirmation don't always show the card used, if one were used in the first place.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A few times a week I will get people leaving Paddington who say they had not got time to print their ticket - or it was too far to walk to print them. This is usually to destinations that have to wait at most for a 30 minute service.

There could be a train every 30 seconds but if you have an Advance ticket for a specific train it doesn't really matter.

Then we will be back down the path of "he could have given his ticket to a friend if we allowed people to travel with only their booking confirmation", etc.

I don't think there is a magic wand until things such as electronic ticketing becomes more wide-spread. Until then it is not possible to bypass the use of station facilities. I would advise anyone in those cases to leave ample time in case things go wrong (and they do from time to time because we don't live in an ideal world).

A printed-off email, together with ID, is sufficient to get me on a Ryanair flight and into a football match at Wembley. I genuinely don't understand why it's not sufficient for the railways.

But if you need to collect tickets then you should really be allowing sufficient time to do it. Turning up two minutes before departure is cutting it extremely fine. For a long distance journey I'd normally be at the station more than ten minutes in advance anyway.

 

[radamfi]

Booking confirmation don't always show the card used, if one were used in the first place.

But it does in the vast majority of cases. So I see no harm in allowing those people to travel with the booking confirmation. If no card was needed then ID could be acceptable. Obviously most people will still pick up the tickets, simply for convenience, for example to operate the barriers without needing the manual barrier.

This is not 100% fraud proof, but it is a reasonable workaround until electronic ticketing becomes the norm.

 

[bb21]

A printed-off email, together with ID, is sufficient to get me on a Ryanair flight and into a football match at Wembley. I genuinely don't understand why it's not sufficient for the railways.

How is ID going to work when tickets are not associated with the passenger's name?

But it does in the vast majority of cases. So I see no harm in allowing those people to travel with the booking confirmation. If no card was needed then ID could be acceptable. Obviously most people will still pick up the tickets, simply for convenience, for example to operate the barriers without needing the manual barrier.

This is not 100% fraud proof, but it is a reasonable workaround until electronic ticketing becomes the norm.

I suspect there may be multiple reasons behind that. One obviously is fraud prevention. Secondly I can understand the industry not wanting to acknowledge it as an acceptable method otherwise loads of people will do that instead of collecting their tickets, opening up the potential for arguments onboard and exposing the whole industry to fraud risks. I suspect that in reality many guards will use their discretion if asked before boarding.

There simply is no perfect solution.