Who is better East Coast or Virgin Trains?

[jspillman]

I've been on East coast up north but never Virgin

 

[Failed Unit]

:cry:

Have a quick search on this topic - it has graced this very forum many times.

Nearly always de-sends into a Pendo -v- Mk3/mk4 set argument.

If I ignore the rolling stock there are something things each operator does better. For example I like the fact Virgin offers full meals on Southbound services (east coast only does from London) but I personally generally prefer the cafe bar on East Coast.

 

[jspillman]

ok I will look it up

 

[Butts]

I've been on East coast up north but never Virgin

Neither - Fly

However if you have to take the Train , with the right crew, East Coast 1st Class is hard to beat. (ie plenty of free Ale and scran)

 

[higthomas]

If I ignore the rolling stock there are something things each operator does better. For example I like the fact Virgin offers full meals on Southbound services (east coast only does from London) but I personally generally prefer the cafe bar on East Coast.

However if you have to take the Train , with the right crew, East Coast 1st Class is hard to beat. (ie plenty of free Ale and scran)

And for people who cannot afford first class?

That is one of my slight irks about this forum, too much discussion about first class.

 

[jspillman]

Well I have only been up with east coast to Edinburgh with my grandparents tip if you like free wine in 1st class do not go on a Saturday you will have to pay

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The scenery is better on Virgin, north of Preston particularly.
You can also enjoy some impressive tilt.

 

[jspillman]

Ok but its also nice near Berwick on the East coast route

 

[cf111]

And for people who cannot afford first class?

That is one of my slight irks about this forum, too much discussion about first class.

1st Class Advances (and Rewards tickets on EC) can make it affordable and worthwhile. Obviously £331 for a 1st off-peak return from Edinburgh to Kings Cross is extortionate, but if you book in advance you can get a 1st Advance return for £70.40 with a railcard. The standard class fare is £34.10, for comparison.

 

[High Dyke]

Not really used Virgin on the WCML, but have travelled with TPE. The scenery as you pass through from the Lake District and through the Scottish borders is very nice - providing it's not dark or the weather has turned inclement. Similarly the ECML beyond Morpeth is nice, especially along the North Sea. South of those points mentioned both routes are blighted by urban landscapes and indifferent countryside - when viewed from a train. That isn't to say that any location has its own story to tell.

Although for convenience sake the ECML is better for me i think it is fair to say that either route has its own merits.

Oh and i still can't enjoy the 'tilt' experience on a Pendelino. Sorry.

 

[Butts]

And for people who cannot afford first class?

That is one of my slight irks about this forum, too much discussion about first class.

Believe me (and others will testify) I was talking about advanced 1st Class Fares. A lot of people (not me ) qualify for a Railcard of some type.

As cost and speed are most important to me that is why I normally Fly.

 

[All Line Rover]

They both have abysmal reliability, especially right-time performance, which can have a significant impact on passengers making connections at intermediate stations. Given that Virgin Trains has very modern rolling stock and runs on a network that has received substantial investment in recent years, Virgin Trains should be more reliable than East Coast. It isn't. Therefore, I would say that East Coast is better for reliability.

Virgin Trains has some excellent value Advance fares and has kept them at the same price for many years. East Coast Advance fares don't tend to go as low as Virgin's and have been steadily increasing in price over recent years. However, East Coast has reasonable value peak time fares when booked sufficiently in advance, compared to Virgin who have laughable peak time fares no matter how far one books in advance. On balance, I would say that East Coast is better for Advance fares.

Virgin Trains has good value off-peak walk-up fares. East Coast walk-up fares are expensive in comparison, especially north of York (compared with north of Preston). Virgin clearly has the best value off-peak fares, although this is a historical anomaly of the WCML and is not of Virgin's own making. If Virgin had their own way I am sure they would hike the price of off-peak fares, as they have alluded to in the past. On balance, I would say that Virgin is better for off-peak walk-up fares in reality, but philosophically it is a tie (for an example of a different philosophy I would tentatively point to Govia).

On-board service is variable with both companies - sometimes excellent, sometimes terrible. However, East Coast don't make any outlandish claims about their on-board service. Virgin does. The reality doesn't live up to those claims. Therefore, I would say that East Coast is better for on-board service.

Overall, I would say that East Coast is better than Virgin Trains, but Virgin Trains does have some good points which East Coast lacks (some of which I haven't mentioned in detail - e.g. TOC only fares - because of their lesser importance).

 

[Failed Unit]

And for people who cannot afford first class?

That is one of my slight irks about this forum, too much discussion about first class.

I did mention I prefer the cafe bar on east coast.

But really for standard class between the two routes is the rolling stock. Which is back to the "I think east coast has more chance of seeing out the window" -v- "I like a modern train".

They both have power points at seats etc.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They both have power points at seats etc.

Standard class non-table seats on Pendolinos don't however.

 

[thenorthern]

Personally I always use Virgin as I find their discounts for people who travel with railcards very useful.

There is no "better" answer with this both companies are better for different things if you want to get from London to Leeds then East Coast but if you want to get to Liverpool then Virgin. Its the same with every company really I know people who chose London Midland, Virgin Trains and Chiltern Railways from Birmingham to London based normally on Price, Speed and Comfort respectively. Its all down to personal preference.

 

[Suraggu]

Fares along the ECML are the most expensive in the UK.

For passengers it depends on what you want from the service your buying?

 

[route:oxford]

Neither - Fly

Virgin fly between Heathrow & Edinburgh/Aberdeen.

(They usually undercut both BA and the Virgin train to Edinburgh)

 

[trainophile]

Virgin Standard Class seating is not comfortable (too upright and no lumbar support) for anything longer than an hour or so.

Also (heard this again today) 1st Class passengers at weekends being told to collect their complimentary drinks and snack boxes from a shop that is several coaches away. That doesn't happen on East Coast.

East Coast every time for me. Shame it doesn't operate on the routes I am most likely to want to travel. I will concede that the lowest tier of Virgin Advance fares is a great bargain if you can get them!

 

[Failed Unit]

Living in an area of Scotland where time wise it makes little difference on which operator to use time wise, I have always found East Coast cheaper. I wonder if I am just unlucky? I have found very cheap tickets to places like Manchester where they are having a price war with TPE. But never had the pleasure on London fares. I must try harder

I see the point about the off-peak walk on fares and the fact the Virgin's time restrictions are much more generous than east coasts (I would need to split to take advantage of this as my walk-on fares are priced by east coast)

 

[Geezertronic]

They both have abysmal reliability, especially right-time performance, which can have a significant impact on passengers making connections at intermediate stations. Given that Virgin Trains has very modern rolling stock and runs on a network that has received substantial investment in recent years, Virgin Trains should be more reliable than East Coast. It isn't. Therefore, I would say that East Coast is better for reliability

As far as reliability goes, I suggest the majority of the reliability issues for both VT and EC are Network Rail's "fault" whether the actual cause be a failure, a cable theft, a one under etc.... In the case of the latter two, there's little that even Network Rail can do about them

To be honest I think the question is irrelevant

 

[DanP]

I like being able to choose a specific seat on the East Coast website, which as far as I know cannot be done with Virgin. This is especially useful when wishing to be on the right side for the coastal scenery, or when trying to bag that single seat in coach B on an HST!

 

[Hadders]

There are pro's and con's to both.

Both are decent operators and will get you to your destination in relative speed and comfort.

Better visibility on EC's trains due to larger windows. EC have a better booking website allowing you to choose your seat.

Virgin more frequent to many of the major destinations they serve (eg 20 minute frequency to Birmingham and Manchester). Virgin do SVH tickets on-line which are really useful to combine with an Advance. 16-25 and Senior railcard concession allowing travel at peak times on Virgin is good.

If you're going to Glasgow/Edinburgh why not travel one way with Virgin, the other with East Coast.

 

[tractakid]

East Coast's service from Milton Keynes is pretty abysmal, so I tend to use Virgin.

 

[Saint66]

East Coast's service from Milton Keynes is pretty abysmal, so I tend to use Virgin.

 

[Butts]

Virgin fly between Heathrow & Edinburgh/Aberdeen.

(They usually undercut both BA and the Virgin train to Edinburgh)

Not always, on a trip I was booking for November BA were actually cheaper plus they fly to Glasgow as well which Virgin don't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fares along the ECML are the most expensive in the UK.

Well if £12 odd 1st Class from Falkirk to Darlington is expensive (with a railcard) that may be true.

East Coast do serve Newcastle, York and Leeds direct which Virgin don't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Living in an area of Scotland where time wise it makes little difference on which operator to use time wise, I have always found East Coast cheaper. I wonder if I am just unlucky? I have found very cheap tickets to places like Manchester where they are having a price war with TPE. But never had the pleasure on London fares. I must try harder

I see the point about the off-peak walk on fares and the fact the Virgin's time restrictions are much more generous than east coasts (I would need to split to take advantage of this as my walk-on fares are priced by east coast)

You are a definite candidate to Fly (if going to the smoke)

TPE forget it - their 1st Class is ****e and hence generally cheaper

 

[Suraggu]

Butts, I don't class advance fares under the remit of that. Those fares are set by the operator but in regards to open fares, off peak fares tickets along the ECML are the highest and have been since BR IIRC.

 

[Failed Unit]

Butts. I often fly but where I ultimately need to go City is the best airport. Back on the train as it is prone to fog delays at this time of year.

 

[bewildered]

Having to use both companies on a weekly basis I'd always pick East Coast over Virgin. I just tends to be a more comfortable ride. I've found reliability better with East Coast too apart from the odd lines down with East coast. The view along the coast North of Alnmouth is also second to none.

But I do agree with what some are saying, I now fly much more between Leeds ans Glasgow and London and Glasgow as it's much faster and in some cases cheaper (usually don't have the luxury of been able to book in advance)

 

[gordonthemoron]

IME more likely to get a seat on Virgin and the seat backs on East Coast trains are too high.

Plus ECML wires seem even more prone to coming down than WCML

 

[herschell]

having used both East Coast inc the 225's and the Virgin Pendo's I will admit I like both but Virgin win it for me, first time I was on a Pendo I fell in love with them.