Driver injured due to electric shock.

[ExRes]

Liverpool Echo report

Major rail disruption | Virgin Trains driver injured by electric shock en route to Liverpool Lime Street

The driver of a train on its way to Liverpool was injured after overhead power cables came down on the track near Runcorn.

The incident happened at around 7.30pm and caused major disruptions on all lines and services between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street.

The ECHO understands that the driver managed to stop the train in time after spotting the power cables on the track.

He got out of his cab to make the train safe and to check for a marker on the track so he could report his location to the control room.

It was during this time that he received an electric shock and at 9.30pm, he was on the way to hospital.

An interestingly dated report, "Sep 25, 2014 0800" seems Gemma Jaleel knows all about accuracy in the journalism game

 

[broadgage]

In the UK the word "electrocuted" was normally understood to mean "killed by electric shock" In recent years the term has been misused to refer to any electric shock, not just fatal ones.
Such misuse is now so common as to be regrettably accepted as correct these days.

In this case it appears that the driver received an electric shock of unknown but not fatal severity.
admission to hospital is advised for any serious electric shock in case internal damage has been done that is not immediately obvious.

I would agree that to receive an electric shock from damaged OHLE whilst within the cab or other part of the train is virtually impossible. It appears that the driver left the cab, the wisdom of so doing remains to be seen and will no doubt be part of the enquiry.

Whilst the OHLE is the first suspect in cases like this, we should remember that other sources of electricity are present on or near railways, it is JUST possible that the unfortunate driver received a shock from something else.

Whilst identifying the service involved and thus the driver may be contrary to forum rules, I personally do not see the harm in so doing. An announcement was made and heard by dozens, perhaps hundreds of passengers, many of whom would post on social media etc.
A study of publicly available information about the trains delayed would reveal which one started the incident and which were merely stuck behind the afflicted service.
It could even be argued that revealing details promptly is a good thing if it results in only one family suffering distress and anguish, rather than numerous relatives ALL wondering if their loved one was involved.

 

[IanXC]

Whilst identifying the service involved and thus the driver may be contrary to forum rules, I personally do not see the harm in so doing. An announcement was made and heard by dozens, perhaps hundreds of passengers, many of whom would post on social media etc.
A study of publicly available information about the trains delayed would reveal which one started the incident and which were merely stuck behind the afflicted service.

Our rules were drawn up following an extensive consultation with members - this rule is not intended to prevent discussion - it is concerned with disclosing information which is not publically available. In this instance, as the story was developing the driver's condition was not clear, and therefore posting information which could identify them was not appropriate, and remains so, until a source from the TOC or mainstream media can be provided.

Can I please now ask that discussion remains on topic, and any further concerns regarding the forum rules are sent to me via PM.

 

[ExRes]

It could even be argued that revealing details promptly is a good thing if it results in only one family suffering distress and anguish, rather than numerous relatives ALL wondering if their loved one was involved.

Just one small point, while I know that public information is a far different animal nowadays, you should perhaps refer to the Clapham disaster to weigh up the benefits of uninformed disclosure

 

[ralphchadkirk]

whilst that is the dictionary definition how many people in everyday life would use the word electrocuted to describe someone who has received an electric shock but not died as a result . Id be willing to bet the rail staff involved who where describing the events did not have their dictionaries out to check the absolute definition .

Indeed. But people on here do like arguing the toss about the most minor things!

 

[talldave]

Whatever the reasons for the driver getting out of his train, he's obviously suffered enough and I hope there's no further repercussions. I feel it's the TM of the other train who needs re-training for the unprofessional manner (ie: unnecessarily graphic) in which its reported they relayed details to their passengers.

 

[GB]

What did the TM actually say to make it more graphic?

 

[O L Leigh]

Best wishes to my colleague and hoping for a swift and full recovery from his injuries.

I don't much like the speculation going around about this incident. Whether or not the incident came about through the driver's own actions or not will become clear in the fullness of time. All I'll say is that there are any number of plausible scenarios going around, including that the driver was carrying out instructions given to him by the signaller, ECO or his controller rather than him stepping out on his own volition and taking matters into his own hands. Lets wait and see.

O L Leigh

 

[snail]

whilst that is the dictionary definition how many people in everyday life would use the word electrocuted to describe someone who has received an electric shock but not died as a result .

Have you looked at a dictionary? Oxford Dictionaries define electrocute as "Injure or kill (someone) by electric shock". But enough of the pedantry, whatever happened it's a horrible situation. Let's hope the driver makes a full recovery.

 

[cossie4i]

So sad to read, I hope the Driver makes a quick and full recovery

 

[ModernRailways]

Whatever the reasons for the driver getting out of his train, he's obviously suffered enough and I hope there's no further repercussions. I feel it's the TM of the other train who needs re-training for the unprofessional manner (ie: unnecessarily graphic) in which its reported they relayed details to their passengers.

If the driver did something wrong (which I'm not saying they did) then they should be dealt with like any other member of staff would be.

We don't even know what the TM said so there's no need to say that they need to be re-trained. They may have seen something on their company phone explaining what had happened and then relayed it straight to passengers without thinking of altering anything.

What did the TM actually say to make it more graphic?

 

[Antman]

Whatever the reasons for the driver getting out of his train, he's obviously suffered enough and I hope there's no further repercussions. I feel it's the TM of the other train who needs re-training for the unprofessional manner (ie: unnecessarily graphic) in which its reported they relayed details to their passengers.

It seems that all the TM did was tell the truth:roll:

 

[driver_m]

Our rules also state that it is our job to protect the train in the event of an accident. Until you actually know exactly what happened out there, can you please stop discussing what should potentially happen to my colleagues, one of whom is recovering from burns.

 

[thelongestroad]

In my experience (as a guard), passengers appreciate it most when you give them as many details as possible... without being unnecessarily gorey or insensitive. Sometimes you need to tell it as it is.

 

[CC 72100]

Whatever happened in the incident, it sounds particularly nasty. Best wishes to the driver for speedy recovery!

In my experience (as a guard), passengers appreciate it most when you give them as many details as possible... without being unnecessarily gorey or insensitive. Sometimes you need to tell it as it is.

On that subject, I did see somebody complaining on FGW's Facebook the other day about the use of the announcement 'a person hit by a train', claiming that it was inappropriate.

Of course, substitute that for 'incident', and you'd probably have even more complaints about the lack of clear and meaningful information which is unspecific and could be a 'covering backside' excuse.

You can't win.

 

[jamesst]

Whatever happened in the incident, it sounds particularly nasty. Best wishes to the driver for speedy recovery!



On that subject, I did see somebody complaining on FGW's Facebook the other day about the use of the announcement 'a person hit by a train', claiming that it was inappropriate.

Of course, substitute that for 'incident', and you'd probably have even more complaints about the lack of clear and meaningful information which is unspecific and could be a 'covering backside' excuse.

You can't win.

Best wishes to the poor driver and I hope he makes a full recovery.
I'd beg anyone on here to disregard anything the Liverpool Echo prints! It must be one of the worst local rags for sensationalism and downright lies.

 

[muz379]

Have you looked at a dictionary? Oxford Dictionaries define electrocute as "Injure or kill (someone) by electric shock". But enough of the pedantry, whatever happened it's a horrible situation. Let's hope the driver makes a full recovery.

The free dictionary website I use defines electrocute as "to kill with electricity" .
I was merely going off that . Like I said it doesn't really bother me that people describe it as being shocked by electricity and not killed as that is often the use people give it .

As others have said id mirror the sentiments for a speedy recovery for the driver and the assumption that because he was outside of his cab and so was at fault are unhelpful ,even if you are correct and he was doing something he shouldn't have nobody deserves to receive such serious injuries at work .

 

[MKB]

What did the TM actually say to make it more graphic?

Being "tangled up in cables" was what I omitted.

Having heard the TM announce that a driver had been electrocuted to other passengers further up the train, and in response to my question "Did you just say the driver of the Virgin train behind had been electrocuted? Is he all right?", the response was he'd heard that the driver had been tangled up in cables and he didn't know his condition, and we both agreed that that didn't sound good.

I didn't infer from the use of the word "electrocuted" that this was necessarily a fatal incident, and nor did I think that was what the TM intended to imply. Like me, I'm sure the TM thought it meant receiving an electric shock or burn.

Kudos should go to the off-duty staff from another TOC who helped get us all off the train safely in the dark. Once they had departed in one of the Liverpool-bound taxis, we were however left alone.

The TM and LM driver were not seen again after we climbed down the ladder from the train, and the LM Twitter feed went silent after the incident until a tweet at 10pm saying they were going home. Without working phones, it was difficult to even sort ourselves out. Thank goodness the last Liverpool taxi driver took pity on us and got his radio contact to arrange some local cabs.

What I also learned is that battery back-up on a 350/1 lasts just under 2 hours during which time you have emergency lighting only. Toilets don't flush, but water comes through still to wash your hands. With a light load of about 80 people, the toilets had become unusable by the point we evacuated. Doors between compartments have to be operated manually and some people were not strong enough to do this and needed help. They are very heavily spring loaded it seems. We later discovered there is a button above and to the side of the door to release the resisting force when you push the door, but this was not obvious, and could impede exit in an emergency.

Neither the train, nor the Network Rail engineers who were there during the initial evacuation, carry anything but the most rudimentary of portable illumination to light the route off the train, which was essentially torches and disco glowsticks. Our egress was fairly straightforward, but I can imagine other situations where it could be quite dangerous, and high-powered temporary illumination would be highly desirable.

 

[Starmill]

It is quite common for uneducated people to use the word "electrocuted" to mean "received an electric shock".

I was embarrassingly upset and offered condolences on more than one occasion before I realised this.

It's simply a misnomer. I would agree with you, but it's unfair of you to refer to it as being 'uneducated'. Electrocution = death by electric shock. Unfortunately common usage muddies the waters.

whilst that is the dictionary definition how many people in everyday life would use the word electrocuted to describe someone who has received an electric shock but not died as a result . Id be willing to bet the rail staff involved who where describing the events did not have their dictionaries out to check the absolute definition .

Precisely. As I said it is at the very worst a misnomer, and to most people a simple case of interpretation of a common usage to call it electrocution when you just mean a shock. It doesn't mean you're an idiot. Although - as with many things - in a situation like this, one is best off choosing one's words with care...

I didn't infer from the use of the word "electrocuted" that this was necessarily a fatal incident, and nor did I think that was what the TM intended to imply. Like me, I'm sure the TM thought it meant receiving an electric shock or burn.

My money is on this. Total overreaction by some people there! Although 'tangled up in cables' - another situation where carefully chosen words are necessary!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What I also learned is that battery back-up on a 350/1 lasts just under 2 hours during which time you have emergency lighting only. Toilets don't flush, but water comes through still to wash your hands. With a light load of about 80 people, the toilets had become unusable by the point we evacuated. Doors between compartments have to be operated manually and some people were not strong enough to do this and needed help. They are very heavily spring loaded it seems. We later discovered there is a button above and to the side of the door to release the resisting force when you push the door, but this was not obvious, and could impede exit in an emergency.

They should be marked out in green stickers.

Sounds rough! I hope you didn't have to pay for your own taxi btw!

 

[ModernRailways]

Being "tangled up in cables" was what I omitted.

Having heard the TM announce that a driver had been electrocuted to other passengers further up the train, and in response to my question "Did you just say the driver of the Virgin train behind had been electrocuted? Is he all right?", the response was he'd heard that the driver had been tangled up in cables and he didn't know his condition, and we both agreed that that didn't sound good.

I didn't infer from the use of the word "electrocuted" that this was necessarily a fatal incident, and nor did I think that was what the TM intended to imply. Like me, I'm sure the TM thought it meant receiving an electric shock or burn.

Kudos should go to the off-duty staff from another TOC who helped get us all off the train safely in the dark. Once they had departed in one of the Liverpool-bound taxis, we were however left alone.

The TM and LM driver were not seen again after we climbed down the ladder from the train, and the LM Twitter feed went silent after the incident until a tweet at 10pm saying they were going home. Without working phones, it was difficult to even sort ourselves out. Thank goodness the last Liverpool taxi driver took pity on us and got his radio contact to arrange some local cabs.

What I also learned is that battery back-up on a 350/1 lasts just under 2 hours during which time you have emergency lighting only. Toilets don't flush, but water comes through still to wash your hands. With a light load of about 80 people, the toilets had become unusable by the point we evacuated. Doors between compartments have to be operated manually and some people were not strong enough to do this and needed help. They are very heavily spring loaded it seems. We later discovered there is a button above and to the side of the door to release the resisting force when you push the door, but this was not obvious, and could impede exit in an emergency.

Neither the train, nor the Network Rail engineers who were there during the initial evacuation, carry anything but the most rudimentary of portable illumination to light the route off the train, which was essentially torches and disco glowsticks. Our egress was fairly straightforward, but I can imagine other situations where it could be quite dangerous, and high-powered temporary illumination would be highly desirable.

Say the TM made the announcement about the driver and then you asked if there was anymore information about it and what he said was just to you or the whole train?

The TM and Driver would have been stuck on the train until it could be moved I would imagine.

2 hours, is in all honesty, quite a while though really. If it's an emergency then the doors would still open so that's a non-issue really.

I can imagine lighting would be a difficult one. You can't really have stacks of bright lights located all over as not only would cost too much but for the majority of the time they would be worthless. In the dark, even the dimmest of torches can light up a ridiculous amount of distance.

At least you got home safely, although I would suggest you send an email / letter to the TOC letting them know what happened with the Taxi situation and that you were lucky that one of the other drivers assisted you otherwise you would have been left stranded.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Spoke to a couple of Virgin Staff at Picc. Luckily it was residual current and not the full 25kv and he wil make a full recovery in time.

 

[Kneedown]

Spoke to a couple of Virgin Staff at Picc. Luckily it was residual current and not the full 25kv and he wil make a full recovery in time.

That's great news and what i've been waiting to hear. Hopefully he recovers sooner rather than later. Thoughts still with him and family, from EMT colleague.

 

[O L Leigh]

That's great news and what i've been waiting to hear. Hopefully he recovers sooner rather than later. Thoughts still with him and family, from EMT colleague.

+1

O L Leigh

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Being "tangled up in cables" was what I omitted.

.... The TM and LM driver were not seen again after we climbed down the ladder from the train, and the LM Twitter feed went silent after the incident until a tweet at 10pm saying they were going home. Without working phones, it was difficult to even sort ourselves out. Thank goodness the last Liverpool taxi driver took pity on us and got his radio contact to arrange some local cabs.

Shouldn't the LM staff have been on the scene until the last of their passengers had been sent safely on their way? However many hours later that turned out to be? Or a response team sent to deal with matters?

Would it have been better to stay on the train all night, kipping on seats, (albeit uncomfortably) if they were unable to secure sufficient or suitable replacement transport.

On the face of it, a poor show by LM.

 

[DarloRich]

That's great news and what i've been waiting to hear. Hopefully he recovers sooner rather than later. Thoughts still with him and family, from EMT colleague.

well said - It is never nice to hear about an extended colleague hurt at work. We are all on the same team after all

 

[snail]

As I said it is at the very worst a misnomer, and to most people a simple case of interpretation of a common usage to call it electrocution when you just mean a shock.

It's been common usage since the 19th Century. See my link above.

 

[edwin_m]

It's been common usage since the 19th Century. See my link above.

That may be the case in the Oxford Dictionary website today, but a hard copy version I consulted (circa 10 years old) did not include injury in the definition.

 

[GatwickDepress]

t's good to hear from ANorthernGuard that it wasn't the 25 Kv current the driver touched. Here's hoping the driver recovers fully and well with his family.

 

[142094]

Incidents like this certainly bring home the dangers of working in areas with OHLE and 3rd rail. There have been a couple of incidents up here recently, unfortunately one was fatal, so never nice to hear about it happening elsewhere.

 

[brianthegiant]

Neither the train, nor the Network Rail engineers who were there during the initial evacuation, carry anything but the most rudimentary of portable illumination to light the route off the train, which was essentially torches and disco glowsticks. Our egress was fairly straightforward, but I can imagine other situations where it could be quite dangerous, and high-powered temporary illumination would be highly desirable.

Your points about lack of illumination for evacuation and difficulty of opening internal doors, are both interesting. Should trains carry a set of torches in the cupboard with other emergency equipment or do they already?

I would encourage you to write to the RAIB about your experiences,
www.raib.gov.uk/about_us/further_information.cfm
so that something might be learned by the industry for futher action.