Places where the speed limit should be more/less?

[455driver]

There are numerous sections of the North Downs which could be raised from 55 - 70+, the section from Pinks Hill to Wanborough almost dead straight for a good 1½ miles & from Aldershot South - East Heath (Wokingham) apart from the curve at Sandhurst, where I suspect that with a little superelevation it could be increased from 70 - 80.

Pinks Hill to Wanborough is dead straight is it?
When did they sort out the embankment raising and falling depending how much rain we have had because the clay it is made of acts like a sponge?
It might be straight in a left or right direction but it certainly isnt straight in the up down direction!
Oh it struggles with the left and right sometimes!

Yes I know its horizontal and vertical!

 

[deltic08]

But, being devil's advocate for a moment, if they are all just there to enjoy the scenery then maybe they would prefer slower trains so they can see it for longer!

You have a point there. I can remember double headed class 50s and it was exhilarating charging down from Ais Gill to Appleby at 90mph+ still able to view the scenery.

We should always try to improve journey times with infrastructure changes.

 

[455driver]

Willing to bet that I'm the only other forum member who knows exactly where Pink's Hill is without prior reference to a map!

Past it on a train hundreds of times and actually went looking for (and found) it in the car!

 

[The Planner]

We should always try to improve journey times with infrastructure changes.

Depends if it adversely affects capacity and you can actually take advantage of it. I would rather improve a freight loop with higher entry and exit speeds with enhanced signalling than increasing the linespeed past it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Past it on a train hundreds of times and actually went looking for (and found) it in the car!

Hope you stopped in the Royal Oak for a swifty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pinks Hill Crossing: now a foot crossing but was once an AHB. Before my time tho' - yup, I grew up in those parts!

Back on topic, I don't get Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury. Resignalled in recent(ish) years and used by 90mph trains on limited stop services, so why do they still have to amble along at 70? Surely the cost of increasing the line speed isn't going to be huge?

Was it an AHB? Wow. I only ever remember it being a foot crossing. And I remember going there in 1976.

Re Wolves-Salop - the signalling is good for 90 (now), but there are many other issues IIRC.

 

[TDK]

Pinks Hill Crossing: now a foot crossing but was once an AHB. Before my time tho' - yup, I grew up in those parts!

Back on topic, I don't get Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury. Resignalled in recent(ish) years and used by 90mph trains on limited stop services, so why do they still have to amble along at 70? Surely the cost of increasing the line speed isn't going to be huge?

I very much doubt that the signal spacing approaching Cosford will be safe at 90mph

 

[Rick1984]

sure Norwich to Peterborough could be a bit quicker. obviously level crossings are a problem and not sure of current speed but should be good for 90.

 

[The Planner]

Wolves Shrewsbury is fit signalling wise for 90 as the work has already been done as previously mentioned. The scheme got binned as the structures, earth and track works were too expensive in terms of the time it actually saved.

 

[Whistler40145]

I thought the 60 mph speed limit on the Settle & Carlisle was implemented to help preserve the infrastructure e.g. Bridges & Viaducts?

 

[satisnek]

Was it an AHB? Wow. I only ever remember it being a foot crossing. And I remember going there in 1976.

The Middleton Press Reading To Guildford book contains two photos of Pinks Hill Crossing, one with gates, one with barriers. The captions read:

Pinks Hill Box had six levers and ceased to be a block post in February 1966. This photograph from November of that year shows that it remained in use solely to control the gates, the roadway only serving a single dwelling.

The box was on the down side of the line and was closed on 16th March 1967. The automatic half barriers were themselves removed in June 1971, as the cost of modifying them in the light of the Hixon accident was greater than the cost of the construction of the new road to the solitary house. A bridle crossing has been retained.

Hope this is of interest

 

[Bald Rick]

Hope this is of interest

It is, thank you. It was abolished before I was born, hence why I don't remember it! But possibly, somehow, led to my career long passion to abolish LXs.

 

[DY444]

Or carshalton, Perhaps, is it 50? I find the through-trains go through there slower than Hackbridge or Mitcham Eastfields.

Carshalton is 50.

 

[thenorthern]

One done a few years ago was the Furness Line when they replaced both viaducts on the line which meant a significant increase in line speed over the viaducts and I think has worked very well.

One that I would like a bit faster is around Stone station where CrossCountry trains have to slow down considerably to join onto the Colwich line but as its a junction I think it would be hard to implement.

 

[The Planner]

Curvature and cant on the s&c will knacker that in the main, but the foot crossing closing at the Norton Bridge side would probably allow a small increase. It is on the radar.

 

[deltic08]

Curvature and cant on the s&c will knacker that in the main, but the foot crossing closing at the Norton Bridge side would probably allow a small increase. It is on the radar.

Cant and curvature well within an increase to 75mph on S&C even at Dent if the foot crossing is closed there.

 

[The Planner]

Not on about the Settle and Carlisle, was responding to the post above about Stone. The Settle and Carlisle speeds will get bombed out on cost as it isn't as straightforward as you make out from people Ive spoken to.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Don't know if it has already been posted, but a lot of these speed restrictions are based purely on a financial basis.

The lower the speed, the less Network Rail have to patrol/maintain them. Hence why the Independent lines round the back of Crewe station are 10 mph throughout, despite them being used almost as heavily as the mainline.

NR don't want to spend time and money on freight or low usage lines, so they impose lower speed limits on them.

 

[The Planner]

That may be the case in the past but NR can't get away with that as the changes have to be consulted with all the operators and they can, and do, block the changes being made.

 

[Bald Rick]

Don't know if it has already been posted, but a lot of these speed restrictions are based purely on a financial basis.

The lower the speed, the less Network Rail have to patrol/maintain them. Hence why the Independent lines round the back of Crewe station are 10 mph throughout, despite them being used almost as heavily as the mainline.

NR don't want to spend time and money on freight or low usage lines, so they impose lower speed limits on them.

Sorry that's rubbish. There is no difference between patrolling requirements or maintenance standards at 10mph and, say, 20mph (or 30mph). The standards do vary above 45mph(? I haven't got my book in front of me) in speed bands, but also by the tonnage of traffic over the line in question.

There is, of course, a difference in permitted track condition between different speeds.

With a few exceptions, the low PSRs in place on freight / low usage lines for track condition are as they were on 1/4/94.

 

[Hyphen]

Grimsby Town to Doncaster via Scunthorpe. The whole thing just feels depressingly slow, especially for a line which is essentially straight and flat, and has no tight curves. The 185s certainly aren't challenged along that route - they quite often seem to run with one engine down from Wrawby Jn right through to Doncaster (I've known the odd driver turn one engine off after accelerating out of Grimsby, keeping it off until Donny).

Looking at the sectional appendix (which I'm not 100% sure I'm reading right!) it seems the PSR is 55 pretty much from Kirk Sandall to Wrawby Jn, then 60 from Barnetby to Grimsby. I know a lot of freight uses this route, at a lower speed anyway, but surely something could be done to boost the speed of the passenger service? (or is that just encouraging class 1 trains to run into the back of the freight?)

 

[317663]

Carshalton is 50.

Do you know why it's 50 in Carshalton?
I've been on many lines with a more 'rollercoaster' ride and experienced a good 10 or 20mph more.
I'm guessing it is really a left, right then another left alltogether, even though it does have some superelevation.

I'm guessing Sutton has 40 because of the 'dip' in the middle of the station, although there is a slight curve just at the exit, I don't see it being that hard.
Didn't Sutton used to be 50 something, I'm sure i've heard/read somewhere...

 

[Bald Rick]

Grimsby Town to Doncaster via Scunthorpe. The whole thing just feels depressingly slow, especially for a line which is essentially straight and flat, and has no tight curves. The 185s certainly aren't challenged along that route - they quite often seem to run with one engine down from Wrawby Jn right through to Doncaster (I've known the odd driver turn one engine off after accelerating out of Grimsby, keeping it off until Donny).

Looking at the sectional appendix (which I'm not 100% sure I'm reading right!) it seems the PSR is 55 pretty much from Kirk Sandall to Wrawby Jn, then 60 from Barnetby to Grimsby. I know a lot of freight uses this route, at a lower speed anyway, but surely something could be done to boost the speed of the passenger service? (or is that just encouraging class 1 trains to run into the back of the freight?)

The geology of the area is terrible, and what with all the heavy freight pounding it, keeping the track straight and level enough for 55mph is a huge challenge.

In the dim and distant past I did some track renewal out there, and in some areas once you get under the ballast it is essentially bog.

 

[Hyphen]

The geology of the area is terrible, and what with all the heavy freight pounding it, keeping the track straight and level enough for 55mph is a huge challenge.

Ah-ha - that would indeed explain it!

Thank you for the explanation - the casual passenger (me included) would have no idea that was the case.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ah-ha - that would indeed explain it!

Thank you for the explanation - the casual passenger (me included) would have no idea that was the case.

The roads are the same; there's a road that is dead straight for about 7 miles near Sandtoft, but it's like a roller coaster, and has a 30mph limit IIRC.

 

[455driver]

The roads are the same; there's a road that is dead straight for about 7 miles near Sandtoft, but it's like a roller coaster, and has a 30mph limit IIRC.

The A303 through the Blackdown Hills is 40 (or is it 50) but all the narrow little farm tracks off it have a GLF sign (so 60 effectively).

Back on the rails-
The track geometry is not the only constraint to linespeed, the signal sighting/ spacing has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Oops I mean I used to drive the route!

Does your freight need loading now?

The roads are the same; there's a road that is dead straight for about 7 miles near Sandtoft, but it's like a roller coaster, and has a 30mph limit IIRC.

Advisory 30mph. It's legally 60mph but has plenty of blind summits and dips.

The A303 through the Blackdown Hills is 40 (or is it 50) but all the narrow little farm tracks off it have a GLF sign (so 60 effectively).

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.0...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjvSDdKlkDp2cR8XeF8siRw!2e0

 

[HarleyDavidson]

So if I decide to drive up the footpath I can do 60,stay on the main road 40.

 

[455driver]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.0...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjvSDdKlkDp2cR8XeF8siRw!2e0

Yoo maid I larf!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So if I decide to drive up the footpath I can do 60,stay on the main road 40.

Looking at that picture, yes!

Of course the GLF is a maximum speed, not an advisory speed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Advisory 30mph. It's legally 60mph but has plenty of blind summits and dips.

From personal experience, you can't do 60, as the undertray of my old car will testify.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

From personal experience, you can't do 60, as the undertray of my old car will testify.

Some of us who have 4x4's can.