Evening trip London to Leicester, splits

[tannedfrog]

Please can you check this journey, travelling weekday around 1700 from St Pancras to Leicester on a fast train, and returning same day. Network R/C and weekly Oyster zones 1-3 travelcard held.

Off peak day return Hendon to Bedford £13
Off peak day return Bedford to Market H, £18
Off peak day return Market H to Leicester

Thanks. I'd prefer not to argue at the barrier

 

[bb21]

Splitting at Kettering from memory is cheaper than Market Harborough. May have changed but worth a look.

Otherwise this is a Condition 19(c) split so perfectly valid.

 

[tannedfrog]

Thank you. Splitting at Kettering is indeed cheaper. This is a good example of a journey that just would have been unrealistically expensive without splitting.

- Price with splits: £37.50 (plus cost of Travelcard + Network Railcard)
- Walk-up price from TVM: £149.50

Saving that much money was well worth the difficulties encountered:

Outward
Conversation with gateline staff when presented with Oyster card and Hendon to Bedford ticket:
- No, you need to go downstairs to FCC
- But it's a Travelcard
- No, you need to go downstairs to FCC
- But it's a Travelcard
- Go to the desk please
- (At the desk) Is it a season ticket sir, on the Oyster?
- Yes
- Ok go through

Return
Conversation with guard on fast train when already departed, presenting all tickets:
- What's that, Oyster? you can't use that on here.
- It's a season ticket
- We don't accept Oyster
- It's a season ticket
- We don't accept Oyster
- It's a season ticket
- We don't accept Oyster, you need to use FCC
- Would the combination be OK if it was a Travelcard paper season for zones 1-3?
- Yes. We don't accept Oyster
- Oh
- On this occasion I'll let you off if but if Revenue catch you, it'll be a penalty fare.
- OK thanks

 

[bengolding]

Oh dear, tannedfrog, did you get any hassle at St Pancras barriers on the return?

 

[tannedfrog]

I was able to just walk through an open gate

 

[yorkie]

That's not surprising from EMT, who have absolutely no interest in providing sufficient training for their staff regarding ticketing matters. They're well known for this sort of thing.

 

[tannedfrog]

I want to make the same journey again but am in fear of meeting the same guard, who I suspect would be less willing to "let me off" again. What's worse I wouldn't put it past him to ask to see my tickets if he sees me on the platform at Leicester on the late return journey, and not let me board.

Can I do anything to prove that there is a Travelcard on the Oyster and that I am entitled to use it in this way? Thank you

 

[bb21]

There is not much you can do about the Oyster situation. Try tweeting them and see what they say.

Otherwise my advice would be to take a UPFN or a Nil-paid Penalty Fare, and then take the matter up with more senior people at the company. You will not get very far with shop floor who will not listen or believe you.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

When in such a situation, don't be argumentative. You are as likely to change the other person's opinion as you are likely to want them to change your opinion. Just keep that in mind at all times!

What does help, is you showing an interested and grateful attitude (in fact, exactly the attitude that you seem to have been hoping to have received from the people you were speaking with, but sadly, you didn't find).

By all means, gather neutral evidence (date, time, place, names, decisions, actions) and do so in writing. But most importantly, be good at what you do - if you like people, then be supportive of their attitude to life, if you like work, then be supportive of their attitude to their job, if you like their work environment, then be supportive of their conditions, and if you like being argumentative and confrontational, then wind them up with arcane industry conditions and guidance.

As I read your request, the combination of tickets is valid, but most duty personnel will be unable to verify it, and most will err on the side of caution - refusing it.
Any challenge during travel can be taken up with senior staff later, and they will be able to resolve the problem for you. Please let me know if you need any assistance with that.

 

[jkdd77]

As I read your request, the combination of tickets is valid, but most duty personnel will be unable to verify it, and most will err on the side of caution - refusing it.

Surely, to "err on the side of caution" would be to accept the ticket(s) as valid, and that, indeed, this ought to be the general course of action if rail staff are unsure of validity and unable or unwilling to check with higher authority (albeit that more senior staff may themselves be incorrect)?

 

[craigwilson]

Surely, to "err on the side of caution" would be to accept the ticket(s) as valid, and that, indeed, this ought to be the general course of action if rail staff are unsure of validity and unable or unwilling to check with higher authority (albeit that more senior staff may themselves be incorrect)?

Indeed - surely if you're not quite certain about a ticket's validity, the one thing you don't do is deny someone travel out of hand?

This reminds me somewhat of the thread a while back about Virgin refusing to accept Boundary Zone tickets with an Oyster travelcard.

 

[Abpj17]

Is a paper record card available for the season ticket?

 

[bb21]

Not unless it is annual.

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe you can ask a LU ticket office to print what's loaded onto the card on receipt tillroll though. Whilst not a record card, it would help prove that there is actually a season loaded on, as it will mention the ID number that's printed on the back of the Oyster card.

 

[RJ]

When in such a situation, don't be argumentative. You are as likely to change the other person's opinion as you are likely to want them to change your opinion. Just keep that in mind at all times!

What does help, is you showing an interested and grateful attitude (in fact, exactly the attitude that you seem to have been hoping to have received from the people you were speaking with, but sadly, you didn't find).

By all means, gather neutral evidence (date, time, place, names, decisions, actions) and do so in writing. But most importantly, be good at what you do - if you like people, then be supportive of their attitude to life, if you like work, then be supportive of their attitude to their job, if you like their work environment, then be supportive of their conditions, and if you like being argumentative and confrontational, then wind them up with arcane industry conditions and guidance.

As I read your request, the combination of tickets is valid, but most duty personnel will be unable to verify it, and most will err on the side of caution - refusing it.
Any challenge during travel can be taken up with senior staff later, and they will be able to resolve the problem for you. Please let me know if you need any assistance with that.

I'm minded to encourage customers to try and nip the matter in the bud at the time of travel. I've found that with the less polite inspectors, getting them to back down is less about quoting conditions (although the tickets should always be explained, once) and more about understanding why they are adamant on persisting with punitive measures. Once what is going on in their mind is understood, it becomes easier to communicate with them and get them to pass the ticket(s). This can be done without speaking in the manner that being "argumentative and confrontational" connotes.

Inspectors issuing errant PFN/UFNs just creates unnecessary work for all parties concerned so the practice should be discouraged where possible.

I want to make the same journey again but am in fear of meeting the same guard, who I suspect would be less willing to "let me off" again. What's worse I wouldn't put it past him to ask to see my tickets if he sees me on the platform at Leicester on the late return journey, and not let me board.

Can I do anything to prove that there is a Travelcard on the Oyster and that I am entitled to use it in this way? Thank you

Firstly, I suggest you try and avoid trains with station stops between London and Leicester . Next, I've found Yorkie's line of Oyster being a medium of storing a Travelcard is actually very effective on those trains. Drawing a comparison with a paper Travelcard and extension tickets has always undone that particular argument. The point of not being able to check the Oyster usually follows - my answer is to semi-jokingly say that the company should make their lives easier and provide them with a reader. Not that I actually believe that to be a feasible solution, but it shows that they are being sympathised with.

Out of interest, who processes EMT's Penalty Fares and Unpaid Fare Notices nowadays?

 

[trentside]

Out of interest, who processes EMT's Penalty Fares and Unpaid Fare Notices nowadays?

The process is undertaken in house now.

They ceased using IRCAS about a year ago.

 

[RJ]

The process is undertaken in house now.

They ceased using IRCAS about a year ago.

Thanks for confirming that. It's probably for the best.