Manchester Dogs Home Fire

[fowler9]

Later press stories are saying that the boy was recently out of hospital having suffered a dog attack....there is a deeper story there somewhere.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/boy-15-arrested-suspicion-burning-7763983

He was arrested, has been let out of bail, and his family have been re-housed to avoid any vigilante attacks.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/topic/dog-attack-harpurhey-manchester/ http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/video-hero-neil-twigg-stabbed-3003458 << it's not infeasible it was this one given the age of the boy referred too; the boy suffered 'serious injuries to his forearm'

Fowler - seriously? A potential serial killer? (Hopefully you realise that comment now looks inane given the above?)

Anyone is a potential serial killer. Someone who kills large numbers of animals and sets fire to buildings is just demonstrably a larger risk. The guy, if he is the guilty party, is obviously very unstable and needs help. I have scars on my hand from being attacked by a dog and have never burned down a dogs home, that is part of the reason I feel strongly about this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

-_- the reason doesn't seem to be for the 'fun' of it, but some form of confused revenge against the dog that had attacked him...

This doesn't seem anywhere near rational behaviour. Got attacked by a dog once so must burn down a dogs home with humans presumably in it. Unlike some I am not actually calling for the guy to be locked in a cage and burned so I don't really think I have stepped out of line.

 

[dannypye9999]

so all of a sudden everyone wants a dog and is now prepared to go head over heels to give one a home? Why is this? Bit late now for getting all high and fly over it and as usual people are jumping onto the bandwagon - maybe they should ask themselves if they really love animals so much then why were the dogs in a dogs home in the first place.

Animals will show love when you feed, walk and stroke em that is all they know. Why were they all in that home? Best left there in my opinion as I'm sure most parents, whose kids have been attacked by dogs would have no sympathy and now a majority of absent minded parents want one of them "loving" animals around their kids. They are animals not people once people realise this we will all own cats meeeow

 

[fowler9]

so all of a sudden everyone wants a dog and is now prepared to go head over heels to give one a home? Why is this? Bit late now for getting all high and fly over it and as usual people are jumping onto the bandwagon - maybe they should ask themselves if they really love animals so much then why were the dogs in a dogs home in the first place.

Animals will show love when you feed, walk and stroke em that is all they know. Why were they all in that home? Best left there in my opinion as I'm sure most parents, whose kids have been attacked by dogs would have no sympathy and now a majority of absent minded parents want one of them "loving" animals around their kids. They are animals not people once people realise this we will all own cats meeeow

Speaking for myself, I don't suddenly love animals. As I've said before though if it wasn't for these charities picking up the tab for ungrateful owners they would be roaming the streets (The dogs not the owners, ha ha) and it would be more likely you would be paying for the extermination of dogs with rabies through the police and other services through tax. What would you rather have?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

A very sad incident indeed, though I will not pass comment on the perpetrator(s) until some official / legal judgement has been declared. Thoughts with those who worked at the centre and those who lost pets in it. If there is one thing to come out of this however, it is that it shows just how nice and charitable people can be if left to be so, the amount raised out of kindness and sympathy is heartwarming. All this said however, I could not let this pass without comment.

The mindless cruelty by some members of today's youth make me sick. It is people like this whom the death penalty would be viable for...

This first sentence really, really winds me up. Two things: evil exists in all forms of man, and evil has existed in youths throughout history. It is extremely dishonest and inaccurate to portray that heinous crimes such as this are solely, or chiefly, only practicable or endorsed by anyone of the current generation of youth. Kids have been misbehaving and committing some frankly horrendous acts for centuries. It happened in the Victorian times, it happened in the last century, it happens now, it will happen well after I am dead and gone. Secondly, no: state-endorsed revenge is nothing more than what I just described it as.

 

[muz379]

so all of a sudden everyone wants a dog and is now prepared to go head over heels to give one a home? Why is this? Bit late now for getting all high and fly over it and as usual people are jumping onto the bandwagon - maybe they should ask themselves if they really love animals so much then why were the dogs in a dogs home in the first place.

Animals will show love when you feed, walk and stroke em that is all they know. Why were they all in that home? Best left there in my opinion as I'm sure most parents, whose kids have been attacked by dogs would have no sympathy and now a majority of absent minded parents want one of them "loving" animals around their kids. They are animals not people once people realise this we will all own cats meeeow

As someone who has prior to this incident donated to animal charities and volunteered in an animal rescue centre . For me the natural reaction to the incident was to want to assist in some way . Unfortunately due to my current work constraints I was unable to offer any time to help in that way so I wanted to donate money to help them care for injured animals in the interim and to put right the damage done in this incident .

Fortunately not everyone is as bitter as you and the public have managed to raise more than £1million for the charity that runs the home which they will now use to rebuild and care for more unwanted or stray dogs .

There are hundreds of charities out there that I would love to be able to give time or money to . But we have finite resources so I give to ones that are closest to my heart .At this moment in time seeing that fire I knew that charity had a crisis to manage on its hands and so was in need of money and resources .

Much like the UK public dont charitably give lots of money to Haiti every year normally , but following a natural disaster there in 2010 people gave generously to help the people there recover from that . Are we terrible for not always giving , or should we be proud of what we have give when it has been needed most ?

 

[Johnuk123]

They are animals not people

If we're not animals what do you think we are ?

 

[90019]

If we're not animals what do you think we are ?

Well, some on here are veg.

 

[Johnuk123]

Well, some on here are veg.

That's about right.

 

[meridian2]

I'm sorry but some of the replies on here have wound me up.

This is a charity run principally by volunteers. Some, I think I'm right in saying, had paid jobs as well. Because of this fire, they have now got to rebuild from the beginning.

Now consider that most of the membership on here have jobs, and probably more are in the voluntary sector, or probably both. Instead of considering the damage to property, equipment etc, it's turned into a debate about animals being superior/inferior to humans, and not a single thought from some on here towards those that have dedicated their lives to ensuring strays have homes, either in their free time or paid. I'm therefore mystified and saddened to see these crass and bitter posts and why they are being made.
As for 'jumping on a bandwagon', only when you are a recipient of an arson attack to your place of business are you even remotely qualified to tell people whether they are 'jumping on a bandwagon' or not.

I have donated to the recovery operation and hope that the staff members and volunteers continue to do their wonderful work.

 

[muz379]

I think it is worth bearing in mind this is not just a charity that cares for dumped and unwanted dogs .

This dogs home also takes in strays found roaming the streets that have gone missing accidentally from peoples homes . I remember being a child and our dog managed to escape and went missing . The dog was later found and returned to our family by the dogs home who had been called by a member of the public to a stray dog that was our dog .

 

[Antman]

In short, yes, I think animals are inferior to people - not many talk about the 'death toll' at abattoirs every day, and lots are happy enough to eat meat.

For some comparison, there are roughly 60 unwanted dogs put down at Battersea every week.

We are all animals so I'm not sure where that leaves your bizzare logic!

Oh and FYI the only time dogs are put to sleep at Battersea is on medical grounds or because they are very aggresive and unsuitable for rehoming, such decisions are not taken lightly and no dog is ever put to sleep because it is unwanted and your ridiculous comments are a slur on the dedicated staff at Battersea.

 

[tony_mac]

We are all animals so I'm not sure where that leaves your bizzare logic!

I am referring to animals other than humans. But, I think you knew that, really, didn't you?

Oh and FYI the only time dogs are put to sleep at Battersea is on medical grounds or because they are very aggresive and unsuitable for rehoming, such decisions are not taken lightly and no dog is ever put to sleep because it is unwanted and your ridiculous comments are a slur on the dedicated staff at Battersea.

I didn't say there were put down only because they were unwanted; but if they were wanted, they probably wouldn't be in a dog's home.
There is no slur on Battersea, it was just an example. If you aren't happy with that, substitute the RSPCA.

A spokesperson for the RSPCA said: ...
'the RSPCA sometimes has to put some rehomeable animals to sleep simply because they cannot be found good homes.’

It's a sad fact, but large numbers of unwanted dogs are regularly put down all over the world every day.

 

[DarloRich]

I am going to be unpopular here:

Why is it people in this country care more about animals than their fellow man?

BTW I am in NO way supporting the burning of dogs. Clearly it is a horrible thing that has happened to helpless animals but I just don’t understand the outpouring of grief and financial assistance. How much good could that money do for homeless people?

 

[meridian2]

I am going to be unpopular here:

Why is it people in this country care more about animals than their fellow man?

BTW I am in NO way supporting the burning of dogs. Clearly it is a horrible thing that has happened to helpless animals but I just don’t understand the outpouring of grief and financial assistance. How much good could that money do for homeless people?

What's that got to do with those that have lost everything, and I'm not talking about the dogs?

Alright for you, you've still got a job.

 

[DarloRich]

What's that got to do with those that have lost everything, and I'm not talking about the dogs?

Alright for you, you've still got a job.

Sorry - you have lost me there. What am i missing?

 

[90019]

Why is it people in this country care more about animals than their fellow man?

Personally, I prefer dogs to people because they're much better company.


The only reason I don't have a dog because of the shifts I work.

 

[meridian2]

Sorry - you have lost me there. What am i missing?

The fire; loss of property; damage to buildings; relocation of animals etc. That's the reason people are donating. Not because of some sort of emphasis placed on animals over humans. The only people doing that are those that are resenting all the donating.

 

[DarloRich]

The fire; loss of property; damage to buildings; relocation of animals etc. That's the reason people are donating. Not because of some sort of emphasis placed on animals over humans. The only people doing that are those that are resenting all the donating.

eh? What are you talking about? The fabric of the building will be insured. People are donating because we British have a sentimentality towards sick/distressed animals that doesn’t seem to extend to humans.

 

[90019]

eh? What are you talking about?

The donations aren't necessarily because people care about animals more than people, it's because there's been a horrible event that affects those who work there as well as the animals involved. People donate when things like this happen, regardless of whether it was people or animals involved.

If there'd been a fire in a charity run children's home that had killed people, there would also have been significant donations to the charity afterwards, likely even more so than there has been here.


To use the donations as a reason to say that people care about animals more than other people when something like this has happened isn't really appropriate, in my opinion.

 

[Antman]

I am going to be unpopular here:

Why is it people in this country care more about animals than their fellow man?

BTW I am in NO way supporting the burning of dogs. Clearly it is a horrible thing that has happened to helpless animals but I just don’t understand the outpouring of grief and financial assistance. How much good could that money do for homeless people?

Well it's not a crime is it? I certainly love dogs whether more so than humans I couldn't really say but the fact is that humans can (to some extent at least) speak for themselves and fend for themselves whilst dogs (and indeed other animals) cannot.

I have every sympathy for anybody that has ended up homeless through no fault of their own (their but for the grace of God goes anyone of us) but let's be honest, many people have chosen that lifestyle through drink and drug abuse.

 

[Antman]

I am referring to animals other than humans. But, I think you knew that, really, didn't you?


I didn't say there were put down only because they were unwanted; but if they were wanted, they probably wouldn't be in a dog's home.
There is no slur on Battersea, it was just an example. If you aren't happy with that, substitute the RSPCA.

A spokesperson for the RSPCA said: ...
'the RSPCA sometimes has to put some rehomeable animals to sleep simply because they cannot be found good homes.’

It's a sad fact, but large numbers of unwanted dogs are regularly put down all over the world every day.

I'm not sure that is true about the RSPCA, I see you've now extended it to the whole world, but certainly at Battersea healthy dogs are NEVER put too sleep.

 

[DarloRich]

The donations aren't necessarily because people care about animals more than people, it's because there's been a horrible event that affects those who work there as well as the animals involved. People donate when things like this happen, regardless of whether it was people or animals involved.

If there'd been a fire in a charity run children's home that had killed people, there would also have been significant donations to the charity afterwards, likely even more so than there has been here.


To use the donations as a reason to say that people care about animals more than other people when something like this has happened isn't really appropriate, in my opinion.

Agreed - But we do have an enhanced sentimentality in the UK to sick animals. I am not saying it is WRONG to donate, I quite see how awful this crime is and the suffering it must have caused to animals who will not have understood what was happening or had the option to escape. I would just wish a similar approach was taken to helping the less fortunate in our society.

To illustrate my point:

RSPCA: founded 1824
NSPCC: founded 1884
Barnados: founded 1866
(NCH)Action for children: 1869

 

[90019]

Agreed - But we do have an enhanced sentimentality in the UK to sick animals. I am not saying it is WRONG to donate, I quite see how awful this crime is and the suffering it must have caused to animals who will not have understood what was happening or had the option to escape. I would just wish a similar approach was taken to helping the less fortunate in our society.

To illustrate my point:

RSPCA: founded 1824
NSPCC: founded 1884
Barnados: founded 1866
(NCH)Action for children: 1869

However, the actual amounts given tell a different story, in my opinion, particularly for the RSPCA and NSPCC.

The most recent data I could find with a few minutes on Google is from 2010 (found here), puts the NSPCC one above the RSPCA in terms of donations (£116.5m to £101m respectively).
The RSPCA comes 12th in that list, coming behind Oxfam, Lifeboats, CRUK, Red Cross and Save the Children, amongst others.

 

[tony_mac]

You can get figures directly through the charity commission.
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/
(for a few of those mentioned, the most recent figures for voluntary donations are
RSPCA £112.44m; Oxfam £111.5m, NSPCC £110.71m, Save the Children £103.7m, Dogs trust £69.81m, Barnardos £43.56m)

 

[90019]

You can get figures directly through the charity commission.
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/
(for a few of those mentioned, the most recent figures for voluntary donations are
RSPCA £112.44m; Oxfam £111.5m, NSPCC £110.71m, Save the Children £103.7m, Dogs trust £69.81m, Barnardos £43.56m)

Thanks, I wasn't too sure where to look.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a sad fact, but large numbers of unwanted dogs are regularly put down all over the world every day.

What is to be considered here is the difference between death by clinically induced methods and the death by immolation without anaesthetic in a fire.

 

[meridian2]

eh? What are you talking about? The fabric of the building will be insured. People are donating because we British have a sentimentality towards sick/distressed animals that doesn’t seem to extend to humans.

If you actually bothered to read my post properly, I said that this was about a fire, damage to property and equipment, and a loss of facilities to keep the strays. I wasn't talking about insurance, which is fine in the immediate short-term but as we all know, charities are at the bottom of the pile and, effectively, they are back at square one. And what about the volunteers?
Imagine if a fire had deliberately been started at the Shildon NRM. Presumably they wouldn't get any donations from you because they are, after all, inanimate objects on wheels, and they have no sentimental value whatsoever. People donate for all sorts of reasons.

 

[DarloRich]

If you actually bothered to read my post properly, I said that this was about a fire, damage to property and equipment, and a loss of facilities to keep the strays. I wasn't talking about insurance, which is fine in the immediate short-term but as we all know, charities are at the bottom of the pile and, effectively, they are back at square one. And what about the volunteers?
Imagine if a fire had deliberately been started at the Shildon NRM. Presumably they wouldn't get any donations from you because they are, after all, inanimate objects on wheels, and they have no sentimental value whatsoever. People donate for all sorts of reasons.

I am sorry i still dont understand the point you are making and i have read what you have written several times.

 

[dannypye9999]

Why is it people in this country care more about animals than their fellow man?

Clearly it is a horrible thing that has happened to helpless animals but I just don’t understand the outpouring of grief and financial assistance.

as I already mentioned because people have too much pride in animals than they do in people. Im even seeing Jack Shepherd off Corrie getting death threats over his recent joke and tweet in which he apologised for, he even faces the sack.

 

[meridian2]

I am sorry i still dont understand the point you are making and i have read what you have written several times.

The point I'm making is that you and others on here have said that you don't understand the outpouring of donations, or understand it in a way that's subjective to you, following the fire. That's fine and they're your personal reasons and I respect that. However, not everyone is donating because of 'having more pride in animals than humans' and it is quite insensitive to expect others to understand that when it cannot be anything more than a personal opinion.
I donated because I want the strays to have a new home as fast as possible and for everyone to get back on their own two feet. You and dannypye9999 and others don't understand that and that's fine. Just don't browbeat on here that's is a matter of fact with statistics and numbers that are impertinent within the context of this particular situation.