Access to/from platforms at Elephant and Castle

[ashworth]

Last week, during the closure of London Bridge to First Capital Connect and Southern Trains, I decided to use Elephant and Castle to travel across London to get my train back to Nottingham from St Pancras.
Never again! I couldn't believe the number of steep steps I had to get my case up to get from street level to platform level. Even for me, still reasonably fit, it was a struggle to lift a case up all of those steps.
During the closure of London Bridge the Brighton to Bedford trains were stopping here instead of London Bridge and many passengers were using Elephant and Castle station. A group of elderly people, with large heavy cases, got off the train as I got on and they looked with horror at the the steep stairs leading down from the platform. I could see from the train that due to the steepness of the steps they were having big problems and I'm not sure they could manage it.
Were there any warnings anywhere for anyone intending to use Elephant and Castle instead of London Bridge that the was no step free access. I don't usually find steps a problem and negotiated going up and down the steps at Nottingham with no problems, but those at Elephant and Castle are so steep and there are so many of them.

 

[Bald Rick]

Good point - this will be in the comms for Christmas.

 

[Metobusfan]

It's going to be hell when London bridge closes for 3 yeRs

 

[westcoaster]

Isn't there some form of lift on the stairs similar to a stannah lift.

 

[ashworth]

It wasn't actually very amusing to see. Elderly people and younger women with children in pushchairs getting off a train and then realising how difficult it was going to be to leave the platforms. There did not appear to be any staff around to help.

 

[Emblematic]

It's under a mile from London Bridge to the new South Bank entrance to Blackfriars station, and two bus services go between them (although the signage for Blackfriars could do with improving.) Hopefully they will have this option properly publicised for the long blockade, as Blackfriars has none of the problems seen at E&C.

 

[asylumxl]

Welcome to my world. I use the station regularly to get to work and am usually found running up the stairs to catch a train that's about to depart.

People in the area have been asking about improved access for years but being a less affluent area nothing has happened. I imagine it will either see some improvement when the more affluent are forced to use it during the London Bridge closure or when the new development on Elephant Road opens.

Can't have well to do folk lumbering up and down the stairs.

 

[cle]

It's a terrible station, and seems to have been left out of the latest TfL roundabout plans which also have Northern line station improvements.

I guess nobody knows what will happen to the shopping centre yet, which is the main access point. For the Bakerloo it's quick to exit onto the street and cross via the Wetherspoons, but incredibly unsafe.

The whole arrangement is a shambles, and is only going to get busier. The NR station needs to be completely rebuilt - possibly with some sort of (attractive/glass etc) ramp/walkway from the NR platforms down to the new proposed 'green island' or whatever in the middle of the ex-roundabout.

 

[Busaholic]

Does anyone know if the Shopping Centre is listed? Don't laugh, I seem to remember it was the first covered shopping centre (or mall, to use the American term) in Europe and hasn't altered much over the years. In fact, I think Greggs are still offering the same batch of sausage rolls they had on opening day.

 

[Clip]

I dont think it is listed - it was meant to be torn down a couple of years ago but is still standing!! As are the Greggs' sausage rolls

 

[nottsnurse]

Ah, the joy of walking through the E&C Shopping Centre, the aroma of old grease hanging in the air like the ghost of a thousand manky fry-ups.

 

[cle]

I think there was a change to just refurbish it, but the status is now back at full rebuild.

If they keep access from the NR station, then I'd expect something better to be built and some high-level access too. But there are a lot of parking and service routes beneath so not sure.

Be great to CP all those mechanics, do up the awful paving and provide a decent space along the road there too. Those arches could potentially be something quite decent for the area (see Blackbird Bakery at Queens Road Peckham) - or expanded station facilities.

 

[asylumxl]

I think there was a change to just refurbish it, but the status is now back at full rebuild.

If they keep access from the NR station, then I'd expect something better to be built and some high-level access too. But there are a lot of parking and service routes beneath so not sure.

Be great to CP all those mechanics, do up the awful paving and provide a decent space along the road there too. Those arches could potentially be something quite decent for the area (see Blackbird Bakery at Queens Road Peckham) - or expanded station facilities.

This is not directed at you but rather a general reply.

From what I've been told by people who work in E&C Shopping Centre, many businesses objected to the rebuild, as essentially the owners of the Whopping Centre would not allow said businesses to return after. Gentrification for all intents and purposes.

Now, while I appreciate that the shopping centre is not the best place in the world, it is hardly as awful as some people would like to make out. It's hardly the fault of the people that it has been neglected. At the end of the day those businesses are there livelihoods and people need to understand that. I'm sure they wouldn't be so keen on replacing it if it were theirs.

 

[Class377/5]

Best places to change are Blackfriars from the south and St Pancras from the north with the latter being completely step free and says inside stations.

 

[westv]

I dont think it is listed - it was meant to be torn down a couple of years ago but is still standing!! As are the Greggs' sausage rolls

Is it still pink?

 

[ScotGG]

Nah it was painted blue a couple of years ago.

Such a poor job was done half the blue has faded or peeled off. Looks awful. It was owned by St Modwen who changed their minds constantly on what to do and have been holding things up for years. Sold last December so hopefully things crack on one way or the other - either rebuild or proper refurb.

 

[jon0844]

I dont think it is listed - it was meant to be torn down a couple of years ago but is still standing!! As are the Greggs' sausage rolls

Perhaps the sausage rolls have been listed?

Nah it was painted blue a couple of years ago.

Such a poor job was done half the blue has faded or peeled off. Looks awful. It was owned by St Modwen who changed their minds constantly on what to do and have been holding things up for years. Sold last December so hopefully things crack on one way or the other - either rebuild or proper refurb.

Ah, St Modwen. They're responsible for the total shambles that is the rebuilding of Hatfield town centre. They came up with wonderful plans, which was basically loads of new flats first, shops second... but then the downturn came so they didn't want to build the flats - so pretty much stopped doing anything.

The council then worked with them to come up with a scaled back plan which has been a total farce. Some new shops, with tiny units that they've not been able to fill, and loads of flats on top that are not in keeping with anything around it.

I read about other disasters of theirs in the north. Great company by all accounts, and the kiss of death for any regeneration because they're only interested if all the conditions are right for them. Not a lot better than Spenhill (Tesco) it seems.

 

[fusionblue]

Elephant is the first "terminal" that most local thameslink services see, so given how nothing has been done to it - despite trumpeting about the rebuild at Blackfriars, Farringdon and London Bridge - it does reinforce the opinion that Elephant and all of South London isn't really the focus (or any) in the thameslink project.

 

[Busaholic]

This is not directed at you but rather a general reply.

From what I've been told by people who work in E&C Shopping Centre, many businesses objected to the rebuild, as essentially the owners of the Whopping Centre would not allow said businesses to return after. Gentrification for all intents and purposes.

Now, while I appreciate that the shopping centre is not the best place in the world, it is hardly as awful as some people would like to make out. It's hardly the fault of the people that it has been neglected. At the end of the day those businesses are there livelihoods and people need to understand that. I'm sure they wouldn't be so keen on replacing it if it were theirs.

Well said. I'm probably one of the few on this forum who is a shopkeeper, albeit semi-retired, and it's a hard job keeping one's head above the water. Fashions come and go, takings go up and down but rent and utility bills only go up. If you're in a shopping centre (which, thankfully, I am not) you can be subject to the whims and caprices of your landlord too and be surrounded by empty units.

 

[asylumxl]

Well said. I'm probably one of the few on this forum who is a shopkeeper, albeit semi-retired, and it's a hard job keeping one's head above the water. Fashions come and go, takings go up and down but rent and utility bills only go up. If you're in a shopping centre (which, thankfully, I am not) you can be subject to the whims and caprices of your landlord too and be surrounded by empty units.

Thank you !

There's many businesses in the centre that do very good business because, despite the appearance of the centre, they have a strong and loyal customer base from all different walks of life. It's the people that make the business not the building that they're contained within, something that a lot of forum members seem oblivious to.

As I said, forcing these businesses out is nothing but gentrification.

 

[Clip]

Perhaps the sausage rolls have been listed?

.

Along with a tray of steak bakes from cicra 1987 too I am led to believe.

I understand people may not want it torn down but god something needs to be done with it to make it look a bit better along with improved station access.

 

[Big Mac]

I dont think it is listed - it was meant to be torn down a couple of years ago but is still standing!! As are the Greggs' sausage rolls

@ clip - nowt wrong with Greggs sausage rolls!

 

[Busaholic]

@ clip - nowt wrong with Greggs sausage rolls!

nowt right with 'em either!

 

[themeone]

The E&C Shopping Centre has an interesting history and was originally envisaged as a fair bit bigger than what eventually got built. At the time of building (1965) it was the first of its kind in Europe.

It never seemed that successful as a mainstream shopping centre, but now seems more bustling than ever due to the number of South American businesses there serving a local community, and I'd be sorry to see those and the other businesses swept away.

I agree though that access to the station is terrible, but the only thing I've heard is that Govia is to put in gates which will surely just add to the obstacle course between entrance and platform level.

I'm still trying to get my head round the 2014-18 diversion of all Thameslink services via this route. Does it mean they will all be as appallingly slow as the current peak time services which use this diversion?

 

[jon0844]

Won't gates speed up access, now there will be hardly any passengers using the station?!

 

[Class377/5]

I agree though that access to the station is terrible, but the only thing I've heard is that Govia is to put in gates which will surely just add to the obstacle course between entrance and platform level.

I'm still trying to get my head round the 2014-18 diversion of all Thameslink services via this route. Does it mean they will all be as appallingly slow as the current peak time services which use this diversion?

The diversions won't be quite as bad as the peak service but add in roughly 10-15mins on the London Bridge works.

 

[W230]

Won't gates speed up access, now there will be hardly any passengers using the station?!

Yep!