Butts left Fuming at Haymarket Station

[Butts]

So there I was this evening innocently enjoying a cigarette in the open area near the end of one the platforms.....when

I was approached by The Guard from the 1816 X Country Service awaiting departure to Aberdeen who informed me that under Railway Byelaws it was an offence to do so.

I politely pointed out to him that in Scotland at most non-Network Rail controlled stations smoking is permitted on "open portions" of platforms.

Unfortunately his training does not seem to have extended to this particular exception to the legislation prevalent on the majority of the network. He was adamant that the prohibition of smoking applied equally across Scotland as it does in England and Wales with regard to railway property.

At the time of the incident I had not long disembarked from the 1424 from Sandwell & Dudley and after four hours was in need of a hit while awaiting a connecting service to Falkirk.

All joking aside this raises a serious issue, namely the correct training of Railway Staff. I have spoken to others who are unaware of the differences in Scotland with regard to this matter. I have a mind to write to X- Country and complain about this.

 

[hidden]

So there I was this evening innocently enjoying a cigarette in the open area near the end of one the platforms.....when

I was approached by The Guard from the 1816 X Country Service awaiting departure to Aberdeen who informed me that under Railway Byelaws it was an offence to do so.

I politely pointed out to him that in Scotland at most non-Network Rail controlled stations smoking is permitted on "open portions" of platforms.

Unfortunately his training does not seem to have extended to this particular exception to the legislation prevalent on the majority of the network. He was adamant that the prohibition of smoking applied equally across Scotland as it does in England and Wales with regard to railway property.

At the time of the incident I had not long disembarked from the 1424 from Sandwell & Dudley and after four hours was in need of a hit while awaiting a connecting service to Falkirk.

All joking aside this raises a serious issue, namely the correct training of Railway Staff. I have spoken to others who are unaware of the differences in Scotland with regard to this matter. I have a mind to write to X- Country and complain about this.

Good for you...

 

[Qwerty133]

Tweet them (@crosscountryuk) and see what they say there

 

[yorkie]

Sorry but as someone who hates cigarette smoke fumes, I couldn't help a little chuckle reading this.

However...

All joking aside this raises a serious issue, namely the correct training of Railway Staff.

...you're right; there is a severe lack of training for railway staff. Although I'm much more concerned about other areas of training (ie, fares!).

Personally I'd prefer Scotrail and Merseyrail not to be an exception to the rule (sorry butts! :P), but if the rule is that it's allowed, then it's not really acceptable to make rules up.

Making a mistake is understandable, but when the mistake is pointed out, why not look up the rules instead of being adamant that their invented rule is the real one.

 

[Butts]

Tweet them (@crosscountryuk) and see what they say there

Have you not read my post about Twitter and Facebook - I am a luddite when it comes to modern technology !!!

Quill and Ink will have to suffice

 

[yorkie]

Tweet them (@crosscountryuk) and see what they say there

They will probably say "Please email us or fill in this form" .

Some Twitter people (e.g. Ollie at FGW) are really good, but they're an exception...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you not read my post about Twitter and Facebook - I am a luddite when it comes to modern technology !!!

Does this forum not count as 'modern technology'? If you can type a message into this forum, then you have the necessary skills to type a message into twitter

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Personally I'd prefer Scotrail and Merseyrail not to be an exception to the rule

I'm pretty sure Merseyrail is in England and has to obey English law...
But they get very cross if you put your feet on the seats there.

 

[yorkie]

I'm pretty sure Merseyrail is in England and has to obey English law...

I thought there was an exception for Merseyrail, as well as Fishguard?

As for having to obey English law, the smoking laws do not apply to open areas of stations. However the Railway Byelaws apply:

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

My understanding is that the vast majority of TOCs chose to disallow smoking in all parts of their stations, and notices should indicate this.

Smoking is permitted on all Merseyrail surface stations.

It is only prohibited at Southport and the Underground stations..

Is this no longer correct?

 

[GarethJohn]

I understand that you cannot apply a different rule to each and ever Halt.
Butt if you ever managed to light and smoke a whole Cigarette here you should be applauded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanaber_railway_station

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39414...Z5U-ddEfYf-ddBfDs-ddBecX-oSE6Ad-ddeK6R-ddqBsK

 

[Butts]

I'm pretty sure Merseyrail is in England and has to obey English law...
But they get very cross if you put your feet on the seats there.

It's not a question of English or Scots Law - more The Railway Byelaws

 

[yorkie]

It's not a question of English or Scots Law - more The Railway Byelaws

That's my understanding (for open areas), but I'm happy to be corrected if the situation has changed...?

 

[GarethJohn]

Arriva have banned E-Cigs as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's not a question of English or Scots Law - more The Railway Byelaws

This is what Network Rail says (4 June 2007): http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...eleaseid=3067&newsareaid=2&searchcategoryid=2

Smoking at stations will become a thing of the past on Britain’s railways from Sunday 1 July when the government’s legislation prohibiting smoking in public places in England comes into effect. This brings the railways in England into line with the similar ‘smoke-free’ legislation in Scotland and Wales. From 6am on Sunday 1 July, smoking will be prohibited on all station concourses, ticket halls, on platforms – covered and uncovered - and footbridges and subways at station premises. Also retail and food outlets will be covered. This will affect all 1,900 railway stations in England and also applies to railway offices - station offices, canteens and workplace areas which are covered by the legislation. However, smoking will still be permitted on most station forecourts and in (uncovered) station car parks

This suggests it's English Law, nothing about railway bylaws.

 

[yorkie]

This is what Network Rail says (4 June 2007): http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...eleaseid=3067&newsareaid=2&searchcategoryid=2


This suggests it's English Law, nothing about railway bylaws.

Isn't it the case that the smoking laws as documented at http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/what-do-i-do/quick-guide.html don't affect stations, so the decision was taken for a unified approach by the vast majority of TOCs to additionally ban smoking on all - including uncovered - parts of stations backed up by the Railway Byelaws?

Have I made a mistake? If so, I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't think that a press release - which is over-simplifying the situation - does that.

 

[Parallel]

Arriva have banned E-Cigs as well.

As have FGW.

 

[Mojo]

Smoking in England is illegal "in virtually all 'enclosed' and 'substantially enclosed' public places and workplaces" under the Health Act 2006. This does not cover open sections of platforms, and Tocs/Network Rail have decided to use the railway Byelaws to ban smoking at most railway stations by erecting a notice indicating that smoking is prohibited. Thus, someone smoking inside a station building would be guilty of contravening both the England-wide law as well as the railway Byelaws, but someone smoking in an open area at the end of the platform would only be guilty of contravening the Byelaws (where adequate signage has been installed).

 

[FQ]

So there I was this evening innocently enjoying a cigarette in the open area near the end of one the platforms.

My grandad (who lives in Pickering) smokes a pipe and I think that you should be able to smoke on a station, at the end (out of the station canopy) and if there are no people about.

 

[Darandio]

My grandad (who lives in Pickering) smokes a pipe and I think that you should be able to smoke on a station, at the end (out of the station canopy) and if there are no people about.

Here Here

Awaits the tobacco police......

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm no fan of smoking and I'm happy that it's banned in so many places. But it's always struck me as a bit mean that smokers aren't allowed to smoke on platforms outside of any canopies or waiting shelters (if no canopy).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Smoking in England is illegal "in virtually all 'enclosed' and 'substantially enclosed' public places and workplaces" under the Health Act 2006. This does not cover open sections of platforms, and Tocs/Network Rail have decided to use the railway Byelaws to ban smoking at most railway stations by erecting a notice indicating that smoking is prohibited. Thus, someone smoking inside a station building would be guilty of contravening both the England-wide law as well as the railway Byelaws, but someone smoking in an open area at the end of the platform would only be guilty of contravening the Byelaws (where adequate signage has been installed).

Yes, this is what ATOC says (after repeating the Network Rail text):

While the legislation affects covered or partially-covered premises, the railways are using existing railway bye-laws to extend the smoke-free environment to all uncovered platforms and footbridges for reasons of practicality and simplicity.

 

[scotsman]

CrossCountry's Facebook and Twitter service has been recently upgraded to something comparable to Virgin or East Coast's presence.

 

[FQ]

I'm no fan of smoking and I'm happy that it's banned in so many places. But it's always struck me as a bit mean that smokers aren't allowed to smoke on platforms outside of any canopies or waiting shelters (if no canopy).

And me as mentioned in a few posts above.

 

[ExRes]

If smokers ever think about non-smokers then non-smokers may have some sympathy with smokers

Where do smokers stand outside a station ?, right by the door, a pub ?, right by the door, an office building ?, right by the door, always making non-smokers walk through a cloud of disgusting second hand smoke and fag ends

Sympathy and understanding for smokers ?, earn it first people

 

[Butts]

It seems surprising that Scotrail decided not to replicate the enforcement of Railway Byelaws in the same manner as those in England and Wales.

Perhaps it was because "Smokefree Scotland" started in 2006 rather than 2007 like it did in the rest of the UK.

Can we have confirmation with the situation regarding Merseyrail and smoking on open platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If smokers ever think about non-smokers then non-smokers may have some sympathy with smokers

Where do smokers stand outside a station ?, right by the door, a pub ?, right by the door, an office building ?, right by the door, always making non-smokers walk through a cloud of disgusting second hand smoke and fag ends

Sympathy and understanding for smokers ?, earn it first people

Radical thought - if there was an area set aside on the open Platforms this problem would disappear in a puff of smoke

 

[thelongestroad]

Just walk on by is my philosophy... I don't know why some staff feel the need to get involved quite frankly! Just arguements waiting to happen...

 

[455driver]

A few years ago, I was walking up Woking platform 2 to my train at platform 3 and a woman was smoking just at the buffers of platform 3, I asked if she knew that smoking was banned on the station and she apologised, said no and went to put the cig out, I said its fine I was just asking if you knew. I then listened to her while she poured her heart out about what a rubbish day she had while she finished the cig off. End result was a happy passenger and nobody else was likely to intervene while she destressed.

I have to admit, the way some smokers stay next to the entrances does get my goat a bit!

 

[trainophile]

At the time of the incident I had not long disembarked from the 1424 from Sandwell & Dudley and after four hours was in need of a hit while awaiting a connecting service to Falkirk.

Off topic, but I was on that train today, from New Street to Wigan. Wish I'd known, but then I expect you were in 1st, which was miles from my seat in B .

We should have badges, in case we ever spot another forumite .

 

[tony_mac]

Yes, this is what ATOC says (after repeating the Network Rail text):

This has come up a few times before.
We don't know what happened with that press release, but Merseyrail have never banned smoking on all open areas.
(I rcall that one Merseyrail staff member on here claimed it was a 'human rights' issue)
e.g.; https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/183478281671151618

smoking is only banned on our underground stations & southport or areas displaying no smoking signs such as waiting rooms.

 

[richw]

As a non smoker I'd rather you were down the end of the platform out of the way than congregating around the station exit, leaving the non smoker to force their way through the crowd of smokers and their associated smokes. Much more considerate of you to be down the end of the platform.

 

[andythebrave]

As an aside I've come across many hotels that have stated that it is against the law to smoke on the premises when, in fact, provision has been made in the legislation for certain bedrooms that meet requirements including segregation and ventilation to be designated as 'smoking'.