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Child Staff Travel Card First Class Upgrade

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SamS

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I've got a friend going to London from York First class.

They've now got a friend with a Child Staff Travel card (who gets free standard travel) who wants to join them in First Class and upgrade - I just wondered if this is possible?
Or would it be cheaper to just buy another EC Advance?

Thanks!
 
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Sleepy

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:cry: Std holders are not allowed to upgrade to 1st class (except at weekends using public Weekend First upgrade) Might be worth a word with train crew if a quiet weekday service ?
 

SamS

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:cry: Std holders are not allowed to upgrade to 1st class (except at weekends using public Weekend First upgrade) Might be worth a word with train crew if a quiet weekday service ?
Thanks, I'll pass that on.
It's the 08:56 from York which I would imagine is classed as a busy service.
 

Flamingo

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As it's a child, the train crew might be more sympathetic...
 

455driver

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Staff? First class, innit! Job done :)

Not on some TOCs now, hell some even charge full public fare when I asked for a PRIV when out for a roam around Yorkshire with my lad <cough East Coast cough> because we should have bought before travelling, Leeds to Doncaster.
 

Starmill

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Not on some TOCs now, hell some even charge full public fare when I asked for a PRIV when out for a roam around Yorkshire with my lad <cough East Coast cough> because we should have bought before travelling, Leeds to Doncaster.

Given the 24 hour availability of facilities at Leeds, I'm not sure what the issue is here? Unless you have free travel on East Coast?
 

455driver

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Given the 24 hour availability of facilities at Leeds, I'm not sure what the issue is here? Unless you have free travel on East Coast?
No I didnt have free travel on EC and I wanted to buy an excess/extension on board.

The point is we were out just riding around on trains with no specific destination in mind, my lad saw the 91 and wanted to ride on that so we asked if we could buy extensions to our West Yorkshire dayrovers and ride to Doncaster. We were told very bluntly "no you need to buy your tickets before boarding", that was the issue at the time, I wont bore you with what happened after that (we decided to get the train to Wakefield instead) but it was an 'interesting' exchange of pleasantries on the train! ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think the point is "don't rely on discretion".

I wanted to buy an extention/excess and wasnt expecting a free ride.

Nice try though! :roll:
 

Haywain

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Frankly, I don't get this apparent expectation that staff should be treated differently to anyone else. Most safeguarded rail and newer TOC staff get pretty generous travel benefits, and yet there seems to be an idea that what they are entitled to isn't enough. Aside from the inconvenience of only being able to buy tickets from staffed outlets, I can't see much to complain about. And yet, those staff who ask other staff to pay are somehow viewed as the bad guys.
 

Haywain

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If that is aimed at me can you show me where exactly I posted that I expected a free ride please?

Can you show me why you believe it was aimed at you? Which it wasn't - it is just a general statement aimed at no-one in particular, other than those who seem to think that it is bad form to expect staff to pay for tickets.
 

bnm

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I wanted to buy an extention/excess and wasnt expecting a free ride.

And you got the same answer, albeit alledgedly gruffly, that a member of the public might well get. A Rover cannot be extended/excessed. A ticket for the journey from the boundary point to the new destination would have been required. That should be bought before boarding.

Or you could have boarded and then, when approach by staff, paid the full, undiscounted, Anytime Single from the Rover boundary to your new destination.

I'd be interested to know what the 'interesting exchange of pleasantries' were on the train. The use of exclamation and the winking smiley would suggest they weren't 'pleasantries' at all.

Seems like you were expecting discretion merely by dint of being railway staff.
 

Sleepy

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Frankly, I don't get this apparent expectation that staff should be treated differently to anyone else. Most safeguarded rail and newer TOC staff get pretty generous travel benefits, and yet there seems to be an idea that what they are entitled to isn't enough. Aside from the inconvenience of only being able to buy tickets from staffed outlets, I can't see much to complain about. And yet, those staff who ask other staff to pay are somehow viewed as the bad guys.

And if you have guards that operate routes without station ticket offices I am sure they will happily sell priv tickets on demand, including prior to actual travel.
 

Starmill

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No I didnt have free travel on EC and I wanted to buy an excess/extension on board.

The point is we were out just riding around on trains with no specific destination in mind, my lad saw the 91 and wanted to ride on that so we asked if we could buy extensions to our West Yorkshire dayrovers and ride to Doncaster. We were told very bluntly "no you need to buy your tickets before boarding", that was the issue at the time, I wont bore you with what happened after that (we decided to get the train to Wakefield instead) but it was an 'interesting' exchange of pleasantries on the train!

I see.

Sounds about right for a reasonable proportion of customer facing staff. No reason they couldn't have done a Wakefield - Doncaster return for you there, including any relevant discount such as a railcard or a PRIV. Unfortunately they aren't obliged to, and some staff simply have no interest in looking after their passengers.
 

Sleepy

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I see.

Sounds about right for a reasonable proportion of customer facing staff. No reason they couldn't have done a Wakefield - Doncaster return for you there, including any relevant discount such as a railcard or a PRIV. Unfortunately they aren't obliged to, and some staff simply have no interest in looking after their passengers.

Some Managers will look at what has been sold on board and get very funny about what has been issued - any East Coast guards care to comment ?
 

yorkie

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Some Managers will look at what has been sold on board and get very funny about what has been issued - any East Coast guards care to comment ?
A simple explanation of "the customer approached me before we reached Wakefield" would surely suffice; the time issued would prove that too.

Oh, and if the Darton to Doncaster ticket was requested, then as Darton is unstaffed there would be no explanation needed.
 

bb21

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A simple explanation of "the customer approached me before we reached Wakefield" would surely suffice; the time issued would prove that too.

Oh, and if the Darton to Doncaster ticket was requested, then as Darton is unstaffed there would be no explanation needed.

Best tell that to some of the TPE guards/managers.

Three times now I have been told a ticket can be sold for travel later that day, but it would be at full price if bought from them, by three different guards. I am starting to wonder whether it is a TOC thing unique to them.
 

455driver

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And you got the same answer, albeit alledgedly gruffly, that a member of the public might well get. A Rover cannot be extended/excessed. A ticket for the journey from the boundary point to the new destination would have been required. That should be bought before boarding.

Or you could have boarded and then, when approach by staff, paid the full, undiscounted, Anytime Single from the Rover boundary to your new destination.

I'd be interested to know what the 'interesting exchange of pleasantries' were on the train. The use of exclamation and the winking smiley would suggest they weren't 'pleasantries' at all.

Seems like you were expecting discretion merely by dint of being railway staff.
If he had said it would be the full undiscounted ticket then fine I would have bought it.

It was several years ago and I didnt know much about tickets (I still dont know that much) and the interesting exchange was shortly after the train set off with him bursting into the coach demanding to see our tickets, I showed him the Rovers and said that as we were unable to extend the tickets to Doncaster we were getting off at Wakefield, there was a bit more of an exchange (him very loud so the whole coach could hear and me being nice and quiet), he then stormed off not checking any other tickets. A woman sat opposite us asked what it was all about so I explained about me being a driver on another TOC and not being up on the ticketing rules and us asking, before the train set off, to buy an excess/extention to go to Doncaster and him refusing to sell it to us. She then showed us her East Coast ID and said she would be taking his attitude up with his Manager, I said I wouldnt be putting in a complaint but she said it didnt matter because she was. That is the gist of it, at no stage was I offish or loud or anything (which probably wound him up even more :lol:) and that was the end of that. We got off at Wakefield and didnt have any other trouble buying extensions or whatever you want to call them from the guards for the rest of the day, I think we ended up with 2 free trips out of about 20 trains travelled on, it certainly wasnt many freebies.

Does that cover the 'exchange of pleasantries' enough for ya!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I see.

Sounds about right for a reasonable proportion of customer facing staff. No reason they couldn't have done a Wakefield - Doncaster return for you there, including any relevant discount such as a railcard or a PRIV. Unfortunately they aren't obliged to, and some staff simply have no interest in looking after their passengers.

We didnt want a return only a single because we werent sure which way we would be going. My lad was only about 5 or 6 at the time and if the train was shiny he wanted to ride on it! :lol:
 

reb0118

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Best tell that to some of the TPE guards/managers.

Three times now I have been told a ticket can be sold for travel later that day, but it would be at full price if bought from them, by three different guards. I am starting to wonder whether it is a TOC thing unique to them.

And East Coast too. It seems that EC guards are willing to sell additional tickets to passengers but only at the full rate. It does not seem to matter if the ticket is as an extension to the passenger's present journey or for a later unrelated one.

I, like you, have also personally experienced this with TPE. Due to a change in plans en route we wished to change our travel plans to travel from Preston to Liverpool via Wigan (rather than remain with TPE via Manchester - TPE F&F offer) and as the TPE service we were on was running a bit late and the connecting service was only 5 mins behind we asked the TPE guard for tickets from Preston to Liverpool - only full fare tickets offered due to company policy.
 

bnm

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Does that cover the 'exchange of pleasantries' enough for ya!

Indeed it does. Thanks for the clarification.

But, lets remember, as is often said on this forum when its a member of the public complaining about the attitude of rail staff, we only have one side of the story.

Maybe we should consider going a little easier on the next person who complains here about a rude member of rail staff being 'blunt', 'bursting' into a coach, 'demanding' to see a ticket, then 'storming' off.

Just the sort of language that raises the heckles of rail staff on this forum when it's Joe Public saying it.

At least you didn't call him a 'jobsworth'. Or compare him to a certain right wing former leader of a European country. :p
 

455driver

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Ah but in all those other threads they also include the 'I felt threatened', 'he made me cry', 'I forgot where I got on' type comments as well. I didnt feel threatened, I knew where I got on and he didnt make me cry either, the big bully! ;) :lol:

Be honest now, in all the situations you have seen who was shouting or being threatening, the RPI or the person without the ticket?

Apart from this one incident I have never had an issue with any other railstaff or seen a member of railstaff 'set about' a member of the public when I have been out on a jolly around the system.
 
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Starmill

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A simple explanation of "the customer approached me before we reached Wakefield" would surely suffice; the time issued would prove that too.

No. That would be far too sensible.

Oh, and if the Darton to Doncaster ticket was requested, then as Darton is unstaffed there would be no explanation needed.

Shhh!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Three times now I have been told a ticket can be sold for travel later that day, but it would be at full price if bought from them, by three different guards. I am starting to wonder whether it is a TOC thing unique to them.

I have had this from TPE guards on occasion, just gotta put up with it I suppose, even though it is utterly illogical. Once, when I'd begun my journey at Burley Park and was travelling to Mauldeth Road. I already held a Manchester - Leeds RTN portion and I bought a Burley Park - Leeds single from the machine at Burley Park. The guard utterly refused to give me a railcard discounted single from Manchester to Mauldeth Road and we parted on somewhat unpleasant words. He was willing to sell me an Anytime Day Single though, for double the price of what I asked for! I subsequently missed the train to Mauldeth Road buying a ticket - and got 100% of the value of all 3 tickets back in delay repay. Just goes to show what this attitude achieves.

If that happened tomorrow, I'd board the Mauldeth Road train without buying a ticket though, I don't think it would be too hard to get past the STM goons.
 
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bnm

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Be honest now, in all the situations you have seen who was shouting or being threatening, the RPI or the person without the ticket?

Three off the top of head. One I witnessed myself and where I came to the aid of the two girls being shouted out by a TM, who had, as it turned out, valid tickets. The elderly lady on Virgin, reduced to tears by a TM after mistakenly boarding the wrong train at Manchester and with the good Samaritan who arranged a whip round for her new ticket being threatened with arrest for begging. The other, the infamous 'Big Man' incident as seen on youtube.

If does happen. Yes, in the many cases it is the passenger who loses their temper, in others, no one does. But it does happen that rail staff also act inappropriately.

That's why I don't think the default position should be to attack an OP, who comes here for help following a dispute, for saying a staff member was 'rude' or 'aggressive'. It may well be true.
 

455driver

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The other, the infamous 'Big Man' incident as seen on youtube.

Ah the one where the moron tried to trip the guard up, didnt have a ticket, got lippy and a passenger threw the prat off!
Yeah good example.
 

bnm

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Ah the one where the moron tried to trip the guard up, didnt have a ticket, got lippy and a passenger threw the prat off!
Yeah good example.


That's the one. The one where the member of rail staff allowed a situation to escalate resulting in the assault of a passenger by another passenger.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
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