Merseyrail overcrowding in mornings

[trainophile]

The 9.43 Southport to Hunts Cross is always packed and standing by Seaforth. I just wondered what prevents them running the already-coupled 2x3 sets for a little longer into the day, to allow for all the pensioners on their passes, who tend to take the first train they are valid on.

I'm sure there's a reason but would be interested to know what it is!

 

[razor89]

Cost will be a factor, if they can run a 3 car instead of a 6 car they will. It's worth noting that the passenger charter states that passengers should not expect to stand for more than 15 minutes of their journey, so if passengers are standing from Seaforth then that meets their standards as its 15 mins to Liverpool Central from there.

Another factor will be mileage management of the trains. The sets that are split off and shunted to the sidings at Southport will likely be on high mileage, so it makes sense to put them on low mileage diagrams.

The 0928 SOP-HNX is booked as a 6 car though to cope with the pensioners and off peak travellers.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Bring back the tube.

 

[HSTEd]

Because they can get away with it, so they do.

This is one of the reasons that metro services should have fixed formations.
Can't shorten an S7 in the middle of the day.....

 

[Dunc108]

The 9.43 Southport to Hunts Cross is always packed and standing by Seaforth. I just wondered what prevents them running the already-coupled 2x3 sets for a little longer into the day, to allow for all the pensioners on their passes, who tend to take the first train they are valid on.

I'm sure there's a reason but would be interested to know what it is!

I've been at Liverpool Central on a number of occasions at various times and every Southport train leaves full and standing - and thats sometimes offpeak! Ormskirk & Kirkby services are very busy aswell but Southport's are almost crush loaded at times.. I suspect in holiday periods when the weather is nice it will be even busier.

 

[trainophile]

I'm lucky as I start from Southport so it would be a rare day I didn't get a seat, and I suppose those getting on further on where it gets crowded could have got the 2x3-er 15 minutes earlier (if they need a bus to get to the station and there is one after 9.30 that gets there in time).

Thanks for all the replies, I get it now!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Because they can get away with it, so they do.

This is one of the reasons that metro services should have fixed formations.
Can't shorten an S7 in the middle of the day.....

Sometimes shortage of stock?

 

[dk1]

Same on the buses here in Norwich. Pensioners short of brain cells all queuing up at the 09.30 deadline. Most of them do not deserve a seat in my opinion.

 

[razor89]

There's also the issue that if the 6 car sets were left to run they would possibly be arriving in Liverpool at quieter times, leaving 3 cars to deal with the evening peak.

 

[Polarbear]

Another example can be found on the Wirral Line.

When the Liverpool - Chester service was upped to a 15 minute frequency, the evening peak services from Liverpool were re-cast & effectively became the same as the off peak pattern (save for a few more calls at Capenhurst). This meant that Merseyrail stopped using 6 car trains in the evening peak on that line.

Now whilst 3 car sets are perfectly adequate for off peak services, they do struggle in the peak & when I used the train on my work commute, I found I was frequently having to stand from Liverpool to Bromborough or Hooton.

That's one of the reasons I gave up using the train to work (I now use the bus) as I don't appreciate having to pay an extra £40 or so a month for the dubious privilege of standing for half the homeward journey.

 

[AM9]

Same on the buses here in Norwich. Pensioners short of brain cells all queuing up at the 09.30 deadline. Most of them do not deserve a seat in my opinion.

Oh how superior a human being you must be.

 

[martynbristow]

I travel from Green Lane into Liverpool pretty much everyday, but on a weekend if theres football a seat is the last of your problems.
You can end up traipsing up and and trying to find somewhere to sardine in a can and generally have to wait for a later train.
Not enough stock and no proactive management

 

[Clip]

Because they can get away with it, so they do.

This is one of the reasons that metro services should have fixed formations.
Can't shorten an S7 in the middle of the day.....

And if something goes wrong with any carriage on an S7 then the whole unit goes OOU.

If one unit fails on a coupled..... ahh you know where Im going with that.

 

[martynbristow]

They could solve the problem with their new obsession with running fast trains at inconvenient times.
They seem to run them when you really don't want them to

 

[HSTEd]

If one unit fails on a coupled..... ahh you know where Im going with that.

They run around headless for 20 minutes trying to shunt a crippled set? And thats assuming its not a failure in some system that stops the train from moving - in which case it will likely be hours.

This just means you have a 117m backup set rather than a 60m backup set. (What happens when a single train fails? you have to have a backup anyway)
Its not really a major net loss.

 

[leejayd]

That's one of the reasons I gave up using the train to work (I now use the bus) as I don't appreciate having to pay an extra £40 or so a month for the dubious privilege of standing for half the homeward journey.

Bus from Chester to Liverpool? How long does that take and how does it compare to train ? Do you get wifi/power?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bus from Chester to Liverpool? How long does that take and how does it compare to train ? Do you get wifi/power?

6 buses an hour, joint service Arriva and Stagecoach (nos 1/2).
Runs via Ellesmere Port and Bromborough.
Journey time 93 minutes (train is 45 minutes, 4tph).
No extras.
Merseytravel zonal fares/seasons apply.
http://www.cheshirewestandchester.g...metables_and_maps/bus_service_timetables.aspx

 

[Swirlz]

6 buses an hour, joint service Arriva and Stagecoach (nos 1/2).
Runs via Ellesmere Port and Bromborough.
Journey time 93 minutes (train is 45 minutes, 4tph).
No extras.
Merseytravel zonal fares/seasons apply.
http://www.cheshirewestandchester.g...metables_and_maps/bus_service_timetables.aspx

Bus is over 100% slower, and very liable to delays in the peak time.

Megarider Gold (Which is the only product that lets you do Cheshire>Merseyside by bus) is £26.70*

Railpass (Which lets you go Chester-Liverpool, as well as all other Merseyrail routes) is £29.80

So for an extra £2.10 a week you can save having to travel for an extra 90 minutes a day, (7.5 hours!)

*Yes there is an Arriva North West weekly ticket (valid also on Stagecoach route 1/2) priced at £19.50, but as about 75% of the buses are operated by Stagecoach, and 100% on a Sunday, to actually buy one you have to tie yourself to specifically finding an Arriva bus at the start of each ticket...

 

[mbonwick]

The recently launched Stagecoach X8 service between Liverpool and Chester takes 69 minutes, running half hourly.

It's not just the Megarider Gold that lets you do Chester - Liverpool on the bus, a Merseyside Megarider Plus is also valid, priced at £15.

 

[fowler9]

Same on the buses here in Norwich. Pensioners short of brain cells all queuing up at the 09.30 deadline. Most of them do not deserve a seat in my opinion.

Blimey mate. I think you have bigger problems than getting a seat.

 

[martynbristow]

Well StageCoach are putting the pressure on!
A bit of competition should sort them right out.
Merseyrails problem is its macro managed by MerseyTravel who are just councillors from the city. So what the people in Chester want they don't get.
You'd be pressed to provide a better service because the rolling stock is in short supply and not ones take ownership of the problem.

 

[Polarbear]

Bus from Chester to Liverpool? How long does that take and how does it compare to train ? Do you get wifi/power?

Wi-Fi & power - oh good grief no!

Yes, it's a much longer journey time, but given that I (like many others out there) haven't had a pay rise of consequence in the last 5 years or so, it's a case of cutting cloth to suit. I normally use the £15.00 weekly Megarider Plus tickets which works out at £60 per month as opposed to £103.70 per month for a Railpass.