Valley Lines electrification project...or not as may now be the case

[CardiffKid]

A new report on the proposed South Wales Metro has been given to the Welsh Economy & Transport Minister and is published today:

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/public/metro/?lang=en

 

[WatcherZero]

More possible projects identified but not yet feasability tested.

*Unlocking increased frequency, This could include re-doubling of track in certain locations and an additional rail bridge span over Newport Road.

*Potential development of new stations.

*Potential use of the relief lines for the Great Western Mainline between Cardiff and Severn tunnel junctions for additional services, served by new stations and park and ride provision.

*Potential development of light rail, with an initial pilot focused on the route between Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay and, building on previous work undertaken in the Metro Impact Study, possible options linked to development in north west Cardiff and other routes

*Potential role of Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) in Cardiff and Newport.

Next steps, feasability studies of above proposals, a strategic approach to new identifying and evaluating stations, more detailed analysis of which mode of transport is right for each scheme (BRT, light rail, heavy rail). Work with Network Rail who are considering in their next Long Term Strategy for Wales increasing capacity of the GWML from the Severn Tunnel and role of relief lines. A light rail route between Cardiff City and the Bay will be designed including alignment, stops and interchanges. Where future demand is identified as sufficent further light rail schemes will be examined.

'Metro' brand to be created under the control of the Cardiff city region board. Future role of Cardiff and Newport bus companies will be examined.

 

[anthony263]

Cant see them closing/selling up Cardiff and Newport bus there was a storm over rumours a few years ago about Cardiff Bus

 

[Greenback]

What about merging the two?

 

[WatcherZero]

There was only that one line but I took it to mean it would be considered whether they would be the delivery vehicle for BRT schemes or possible merging.

 

[Tumbleweed]

A new report on the proposed South Wales Metro has been given to the Welsh Economy & Transport Minister and is published today:

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/public/metro/?lang=en

This report is from last year?

 

[WatcherZero]

Last file, 'Update August 2014'

 

[Tumbleweed]

Thanks for that, it seems to be a bit contradictory regarding Cardiff NW/Lllantrisant/Pontyclun/Beddau - SEWTA say there will be a heavy rail link between Beddau and Pontyclun, this report says no, there will be tram-train via Creigiau?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thanks for that, it seems to be a bit contradictory regarding Cardiff NW/Lllantrisant/Pontyclun/Beddau - SEWTA say there will be a heavy rail link between Beddau and Pontyclun, this report says no, there will be tram-train via Creigiau?

The current Minister has announced the end of the regional transport consortia, though I suspect SEWTA doesn't agree!

 

[MarkyT]

The current Minister has announced the end of the regional transport consortia, though I suspect SEWTA doesn't agree!

Well the organisation certainly acknowledges its demise with their website largely rewritten from a retrospective point of view:

"SEWTA STANDS DOWN AFTER 10 YEARS OF SUCCESSFUL REGIONAL COLLABORATION"

http://www.sewta.gov.uk/

 

[Tumbleweed]

So, two different quangos saying different things, joined up government at its best. There are what looks like junction signals being installed at Pontyclun so who knows. I'm cynical so I don't think a third of what's in that metro report will actually become a reality if spending a billion quid on a motorway happens. Imagine what we could have public transport-wise with that kind of money.

 

[HowardGWR]

So, two different quangos saying different things, joined up government at its best. There are what looks like junction signals being installed at Pontyclun so who knows. I'm cynical so I don't think a third of what's in that metro report will actually become a reality if spending a billion quid on a motorway happens. Imagine what we could have public transport-wise with that kind of money.

Exactly. See my recent post under 'GWR electrification'.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Something to chew on at last, from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-28992196.

A deal on who will pay to electrify the valleys rail network should be ready in a "short number of months," says Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb.
Welsh and UK ministers have been rowing since March over how to finance the commuter lines in and out of Cardiff.
Mr Crabb said the scheme - estimated at £309m to £463m - was "probably the most knotty" problem between the two governments but was soluble.
The valleys rail electrification is due to be completed between 2019 and 2024

So the scheme is still alive.
Hopefully the Autumn Budget Statement will resolve this disagreement and allow work to start.

 

[gareth950]

So do we know when any definite news will be released on whether this project will go ahead? How long is a 'short number of months'? There was no mention of any rail projects in the WAG draft budget last month

With all the talk in other threads of the possible replacement of Pacers in the North, I think it's been forgotten that the SW Valleys is also home to a sizeable fleet of rapidly ageing Pacers.

Even if electrification does go ahead we're looking at 10 - 15 years before the whole Valleys network would be electrified, and the Valleys Pacers can't go on for that long, esp. not the 142's, which apart from having 2+2 seating, aren't in any better condition than their Northern counterparts.

If the deal falls through, who's going to buy the Valleys (along with the North) a nice new fleet of trains?

As long as £15bn is spent on improving the roads running through marginal constituencies in England.........:roll:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So do we know when any definite news will be released on whether this project will go ahead? How long is a 'short number of months'? There was no mention of any rail projects in the WAG draft budget last month

As long as £15bn is spent on improving the roads running through marginal constituencies in England.........:roll:

I'd expect something in the Autumn Statement (or we're all doomed!).
Any English roads money will generate Barnett consequentials for Wales (more roads, probably).

 

[Gareth Marston]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/welsh-secretary-says-theres-deal-8083458


Sounds like the deal involves what's known as co funding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Somebody suggested a 321 demonstrator style refurb for such as 313/315's although I doubt such a refurb would be justified on such an old train, plus the MK2 design isn't the best, at least the MK3 based designs are meant to be fairly robust with good crashworthiness.

There's an entire fleet of demonstrators running around Merseyside every day, and another slightly different one in the form of the odd ex-508 vehicle in some of the 455s.

Neil

 

[Mikey C]

The Coastway 313s that Southern use are really nice inside, and smart looking outside, I was rather impressed with them. I'm sure the PEPs have decent crashworthiness, certainly better than a Pacer's!

 

[swt_passenger]

Even if electrification does go ahead we're looking at 10 - 15 years before the whole Valleys network would be electrified, and the Valleys Pacers can't go on for that long, esp. not the 142's, which apart from having 2+2 seating, aren't in any better condition than their Northern counterparts.

NR are still quoting 2019 for completion of the whole project...

 

[Rhydgaled]

NR are still quoting 2019 for completion of the whole project...

Timescale has never been clear regarding the ValleyLines electrification, with 'completion by 2019' and 'completion from 2019-2024' being mentioned by various sources if I recall correctly.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Timescale has never been clear regarding the ValleyLines electrification, with 'completion by 2019' and 'completion from 2019-2024' being mentioned by various sources if I recall correctly.

Dates don't mean a lot until NR has reached Grip 3 in the project process (single option selection).
That's down as Dec 2015 in the CP5 plan.
Until then they are projects with an estimated budget and timescale.
I don't know what "accelerated gauge clearance works start Sept 2014" means.
Are some bridge works in progress somewhere?

 

[WatcherZero]

PM to announce it today in Newport.

Westminster will contribute to electrification of GWML to Swansea paying for and responsible for delivering the Cardiff-Bridgend section at a cost of £105m.
Wales and Border franchise will be fully devolved to Wales from 2018 (doesn't say if infrastructure is devolved or not).
Westminster will give £125m towards Welsh Valley electrification with the Welsh Government having to project manage and find the rest of the finance required.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...lectrify-valley-lines-and-boost-welsh-economy

Additional: Wales is going to earmark at least some of funding required from its £1.1bn European Regional Development Fund grant (slice of £252m ring fenced for transport) and from a £800m European Social Cohesion Fund grant which is to be agreed in coming weeks.

Welsh Valley line electrification estimated to cost £300-£450m.

 

[edwin_m]

That sounds like progress. I notice Cameron mentions "faster, more modern" trains - which arguably rules out 315s!

 

[krus_aragon]

News article at the BBC. They report the project's remaining £463m will be met by "reduced costs and increased revenues".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

News article at the BBC. They report the project's remaining £463m will be met by "reduced costs and increased revenues".

I think that was always the Valleys business case.
The DfT has secured its IEP infrastructure and is leaving the rest to Cardiff Bay.
WG will need an enlarged transport unit to manage this and the specification/procurement of the new franchise.
The franchise deal seems to put Wales on the same footing as Scotland.
However there are the cross-border services to worry about and it remains to be seen whether the "borders" area will be reduced as part of the deal.
The financial deal will be critical - there's a lot of subsidy to be fought over.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

I think that was always the Valleys business case.
The DfT has secured its IEP infrastructure and is leaving the rest to Cardiff Bay.
WG will need an enlarged transport unit to manage this and the specification/procurement of the new franchise.
The franchise deal seems to put Wales on the same footing as Scotland.
However there are the cross-border services to worry about and it remains to be seen whether the "borders" area will be reduced as part of the deal.
The financial deal will be critical - there's a lot of subsidy to be fought over.

I suppose people in Herefordshire and Shropshire will be watching with interest

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I suppose people in Herefordshire and Shropshire will be watching with interest

And Cheshire and Gloucestershire (and routes into Manchester and Birmingham).

 

[carriageline]

Saw this today at work and thought I would share it! Pre voting propaganda I wonder?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30128378

A deal to electrify railway lines in the south Wales valleys will have a "huge" impact, the prime minister says.
The UK government will fund the upgrade of the Swansea-London mainline by 2018, and will pay almost half an estimated £500m to electrify the Valley lines.
The Welsh government expects to meet its share from cost savings and increased revenue.
The agreement settles a bitter dispute between Westminster and Cardiff Bay over who should foot the bill.
The UK government is also handing over control of the Welsh rail franchise to the Welsh government.
First Minister Carwyn Jones said he was "delighted" with the deal.
Electrification of the Valleys lines, due to follow the £850m upgrade of the mainline, was thrown into doubt in March by a row over the financing of the project.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HowardGWR]

I see the PM has claimed it for his own with a local photo op today to boot.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Hmm, I remain to be convinced that there are many Tory votes to be won (or even Lib Dem ones) in most of the settlements served by the Valley Lines....