Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[island]

I think that if there are thousands of people requiring a CDR to SDR excess, Northern will not be able to ching everyone in a timely manner, so will have no choice but to let people travel without the extra charge.

If the guard does not get around to someone to sell their excess before they arrive, they are obliged to purchase it at their arrival station if it's got a booking office. Failure to do so would be fare evasion.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the guard does not get around to someone to sell their excess before they arrive, they are obliged to purchase it at their arrival station if it's got a booking office. Failure to do so would be fare evasion.

....Or a ticket barrier....

 

[spargazer]

I would love to know how much extra cash this will raise, or loose.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. It would be a good idea if someone were to commission an independant review after a set period to establish whether the increased revenue was great enough to justify the upheaval.

 

[spargazer]

It is yet another case of the Southerners dumping on the North.

 

[bb21]

It is yet another case of the Southerners dumping on the North.

What do you mean?

 

[tom1649]

Would an off peak ticket that starts in one PTE area but finishes in another be valid during the evening peak?

 

[brompton rail]

Would an off peak ticket that starts in one PTE area but finishes in another be valid during the evening peak?

Between South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire, yes. The Northern website clearly states the Evening Restrictions apply to journeys wholly within South Yorkshire and wholly within West Yorkshire (there are a few fares from stations outside WY that are included too)

Any Permitted fares between Sheffield and Leeds or Huddersfield, Doncaster and Leeds are set by East Coast anyway. Only Northern (or SY, WY) fares are restricted.

 

[yorkie]

Would an off peak ticket that starts in one PTE area but finishes in another be valid during the evening peak?

in most cases, yes

 

[tom1649]

Thanks for the answers.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Another staff brief came out today to clarify a few points:


Are there any changes to Metro Day tickets?

Yes Day Rover, Family Day Rover and Train Day Rover, these products are also affected by the evening peak restrictions. Pre purchased ‘scratch card’ versions with the old conditions (no evening peak restriction) will still be accepted in the evening peak. These tickets will be phased out in due course and new ones with revised conditions issued which will have the new evening peak restriction on. Please check the back of the ticket to confirm validity.

If a customer has to change trains to complete their journey and the next part of their journey is within the evening peak, do they need an Anytime Day Single or Return ticket to travel?

Yes, for example a passenger travelling with an Off-Peak Day ticket from Ilkley to Garforth. I f they travel on the 1510 from Ilkley to Leeds and the 1552 from Leeds to Garforth the ticket is valid. If the passenger was departing on the 1540 from Ilkley connecting with the 1625 Leeds to Garforth service, then the ticket is not valid from Leeds. Therefore the customer would need to purchase an Anytime Day ticket or pay the excess fare if in possession of an Off-Peak Day ticket or wait for the 1853 departure from Leeds to Garforth to continue / complete their journey.
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Please note that Metro issued ENCTS passes will no longer be entitled to a discount on cross boundary journeys between West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire. Normal fares will apply from the West Yorkshire boundary station i.e. Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and South Elmsall.

The current ticket types CNS – Concessionary Single and CNR – Concessionary Return will be withdrawn. A new railcard WY CONCESSION SENIOR and WY CONCESS DISABLED have been created to use with Anytime Day Single (SDS), Anytime Day Return (SDR), Cheap Day Single (CDS) and Cheap Day Return (CDR) tickets. Metro issued ENCTS passes (Senior and Disabled / Disabled with or without a companion) remain valid to use on trains timed to depart from 0930 Monday to Fridays, however an evening peak restriction will apply Monday to Friday on trains timed to depart between 1601 –1829 inclusive. No restrictions apply weekends and bank holidays. Please remember if the customer is travelling on trains timed to depart between 1601 – 1829 inclusive Mondays to Fridays, only SDS Anytime Day Single and SDR Anytime Day Return tickets are valid.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There were a few versions of the brief that I saw, differing for each specific area but covering the same points.

 

[dave87016]

Do the evening off peak restrictions apply to the Day Rangers such as Lancashire Day Ranger or South Pennine Day Rangers and GM Rail Ranger? or will they be valid as they are now ( any time after 08:45 or 09:30am)

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Do the evening off peak restrictions apply to the Day Rangers such as Lancashire Day Ranger or South Pennine Day Rangers and GM Rail Ranger? or will they be valid as they are now ( any time after 08:45 or 09:30am)

Non - PTE rangers such as Lancashire and South Pennines have NO restrictions.

PTE rangers such as GM Rail Ranger, Daysavers, etc DO HAVE the restrictions applied.

 

[craigwilson]

How do the new rules work with long distance Off-Peak Returns e.g. London - Buxton? If you got the last off-peak train (1500?) from Euston, that would put your change to the Buxton service at Stockport in the middle of the evening peak.

Would you need two tickets in this instance?

 

[bb21]

If you have a long-distance ticket, you are not going to be affected. It is only the local tickets that are having their restrictions changed.

 

[Merseysider]

How do the new rules work with long distance Off-Peak Returns e.g. London - Buxton? If you got the last off-peak train (1500?) from Euston, that would put your change to the Buxton service at Stockport in the middle of the evening peak.

Would you need two tickets in this instance?

In the example you provide, London - Buxton would not be affected; the flow is not priced by Northern.

Tickets that start or originate outside of the red/green lines on the map abovethread are not to be affected.

 

[spargazer]

it may be true but I am not sure

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/mafia-in-awe-of-uk-train-companies-2014082789914

A GROUP of New York mobsters has visited Britain to get tips on exploitation from train companies.

The gangsters expressed their admiration for the way trains operate in the UK, which they consider to be the most beautiful racket ever devised.

‘Wise guy’ Tommy Logan said: “One day it’s £75 for an off-peak return. The next day – boom – it’s double the price. Nobody asks any questions.

“They got this other **** like ‘super off-peak’ just to make it real confusing.

“Poor schmucks don’t know what ticket to buy so they just get the most expensive one, it’s nice. Real nice.

“Season commuter tickets are the sweetest part of the operation because there’s no other way for people to get to work. Plus they got this ‘family saver’ grift that’s more expensive than the regular fare.

“All this and they don’t even bother to fix the toilets.”

“You know the best thing? If they want more money, they just ask the government. Cook up some bull**** about ‘vital track maintenance’ then blow the loot on women and horses.”

 

[SGS]

If they travel on the 1510 from Ilkley to Leeds and the 1552 from Leeds to Garforth the ticket is valid. If the passenger was departing on the 1540 from Ilkley connecting with the 1625 Leeds to Garforth service, then the ticket is not valid from Leeds.

Do any other operators' peak restrictions operate this way in terms of changes? I'm no expert, but I thought it was all about when you started your "journey", not when you changed trains.

 

[maniacmartin]

A lot of tickets to and from London have terms such as "not valid on any train timed to depart London Terminals between X:00 and Y:00"

 

[northwichcat]

How do the new rules work with long distance Off-Peak Returns e.g. London - Buxton? If you got the last off-peak train (1500?) from Euston, that would put your change to the Buxton service at Stockport in the middle of the evening peak.

Would you need two tickets in this instance?

The new restrictions to/from Buxton only apply to Salford Crescent and intermediate stations such as Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport and Hazel Grove.

 

[button_boxer]

How do the new rules work with long distance Off-Peak Returns e.g. London - Buxton? If you got the last off-peak train (1500?) from Euston, that would put your change to the Buxton service at Stockport in the middle of the evening peak.

Would you need two tickets in this instance?

There's no such thing as a "peak" or "off-peak" train, rather the restrictions for each individual ticket decide which trains that ticket is or is not valid on.

In the specific case of a Buxton to London Terminals Off-Peak Return, the applicable restriction code is 2C, and on the return half this only restricts the leg from London to Stockport, not the one from Stockport to Buxton. The same ticket in the other direction (London to Buxton) has the mirror-image restriction code 9I and again it's only the London leg that is restricted.

 

[Deerfold]

A lot of tickets to and from London have terms such as "not valid on any train timed to depart London Terminals between X:00 and Y:00"

Which would be a lot more sensible idea here - if it must be done it'd make more sense for the restrictions to be leaving Leeds / Manchester between X and Y. This would then not restrict quiet services into these cities and leave alone the relatively quiet services like Bradford - Skipton/Ilkley.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A lot of tickets to and from London have terms such as "not valid on any train timed to depart London Terminals between X:00 and Y:00"

TPE has some restrictions (it used to be nearly every SVR restriction they set!) that are arrival times at certain major stations, stations which the passenger might not even get within 10 miles of!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It strikes me that these restrictions are being done in a way that practically guarantees a major PR disaster once they come into force.

 

[Class83]

Surely much simpler would be to say that any 'Off Peak Day Return' is not valid on services departing Liverpool (LIV, LVC, MRF & LVJ), Manchester (MAN, MCO, MCV), Leeds (LDS) Sheffield (SHF) and Newcastle (NCL) between 1630-1815 (or whatever time restriction they go for) the longer distance tickets would tend to be period returns and could have no evening restriction.

 

[brompton rail]

Surely much simpler would be to say that any 'Off Peak Day Return' is not valid on services departing Liverpool (LIV, LVC, MRF & LVJ), Manchester (MAN, MCO, MCV), Leeds (LDS) Sheffield (SHF) and Newcastle (NCL) between 1630-1815 (or whatever time restriction they go for) the longer distance tickets would tend to be period returns and could have no evening restriction.

No' as an Off Peak D/R Leeds to Nottingham at just over £23 becomes £37 Saver

 

[43167]

As someone said to me the other day, its a step backwards.

There was such a restriction about 20 years or so ago, though dont remember it covering PTE-day rovers/rangers.

 

[Starmill]

If a customer has to change trains to complete their journey and the next part of their journey is within the evening peak, do they need an Anytime Day Single or Return ticket to travel?

Yes, for example a passenger travelling with an Off-Peak Day ticket from Ilkley to Garforth. I f they travel on the 1510 from Ilkley to Leeds and the 1552 from Leeds to Garforth the ticket is valid. If the passenger was departing on the 1540 from Ilkley connecting with the 1625 Leeds to Garforth service, then the ticket is not valid from Leeds. Therefore the customer would need to purchase an Anytime Day ticket or pay the excess fare if in possession of an Off-Peak Day ticket or wait for the 1853 departure from Leeds to Garforth to continue / complete their journey.

IMHO not acceptable instructions to be giving out to revenue staff... Not a situation in which I would pay an excess.
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Some proper sized posters were delivered to 'regional hubs' and distributed, by staff, to where they should be going. That's how they arrived where I work and they are now displayed. I don't however, work at Mauldeth Road, so I don't know why the big poster has not appeared there.

To confirm, a large poster has now gone up in 2 of Mauldeth Road's poster frames.

No posters or anything else about the withdrawal of Evening tickets here I notice? I have bought 5 or 6 of these since this was first announced and nobody has said anything about them disappearing soon to me?

 

[Class83]

No' as an Off Peak D/R Leeds to Nottingham at just over £23 becomes £37 Saver

That anomaly already exists as the Anytime Day Return [SDR] is more than the Off Peak Return [SVR]. But the change would require passengers wanting to travel on busy evening peak services to buy either the SVR or the SDR. The Off-Peak Day Return [CDR] being invalid at these times. I did think that in general there was a move to offer either day returns or month returns, but not both on the same route.

Still if signs were put up saying that Off Peak Day Returns and Off Peak PTE passes are not valid on trains departing between XX and YY then it should be fairly clear to customers. I just think basing the restriction on the type of ticket will be simpler than having different rules for OPDR tickets from a City to 2 different destinations.