EMT Class 158 coupling and uncoupling procedure at Nottingham

[ryan125hst]

Could anyone describe in detail what the procedure for coupling and uncoupling East Midland Trains' Class 158 units on the Norwich to Liverpool route at Nottingham route please?

I know, from looking on Realtime trains, that Norwich bound trains usually use platform 3, with the unit to Norwich leaving after the uncoupling, and the empty unit shunting off to Eastcroft shortly afterwards. In the other direction, the ECS shunts into platform 7B (behind the CrossCountry Class 170 to Birmingham), which the in service Liverpool bound unit then coupled to. The four car unit then leaves about 4 minutes after the XC unit departs. (It must get interesting if the XC service doesn't leave on time!)

What I'm unsure of is how it works with things like doors being open etc. I caught the 17:45 to Liverpool as far as Sheffield a couple of weeks ago, but there were only two cars on the service (as far as I know anyway!), so I didn't see this procedure). Are passengers allowed to board the empty unit before the other unit attaches. Do the doors need to be locked again before the attachment is made? How about when the units uncouple?

There doesn't seem to be many videos of it on YouTube!

Many thanks!

Ryan

 

[scotraildriver]

Not sure of EMT procedure but here is Scotrails one, I imagine very similar:

2nd unit arrives and stops 6ft from other unit.
Driver ensures doors are locked on both units. Passengers can stay on board.
Driver moves train to 2ft from other unit then gets out and observes couplings are aligned.
Drivers carries out a "controlled collision" to mechanically engage couplers.
Put controller in reverse and carry out pull away test.
Press "couple" button to electrically couple.
Check blue "coupled" light lit in both cabs.
Carry out brake continuity test. (Easier with another person)
Release doors if required.

 

[edwin_m]

From my experience you can't get in the empty unit before the coupling as there usually isn't anyone there to open the doors, though this may happen sometimes.

The unit from Norwich arrives in plenty of time (unless it's delayed!) and stops just short of the empty one. Doors are opened, passengers alight and it is possible to board if you're quick. Doors are then closed for the coupling procedure which takes several minutes including the opening up of the end gangways. Sometimes the end door on the empty unit is open before the other one arrives, which may explain why nobody is allowed onto it.

I don't normally see the uncoupling as I'm off to catch my bus home. Usually the guard comes down before Nottingham to check everyone going forward is in the front set, but they rarely try to do this before Sheffield probably because of confusion about which end is which when the train reverses. I did however have a platform announcement at Manchester last week for passengers going beyond Nottingham to use what are the rear coaches at that point. Sometimes the Norwich train uses a different platform, such as the dreaded platform 4 which is far away from anywhere and with only a very desultory shelter. I believe they only use straight parts of platforms for the coupling and uncoupling.

 

[43074]

From the arrival of the service from Liverpool at xx:26:

• Pair of 158s arrives at Nottingham
• Passengers alight, and allowed to board front two only.
• Doors close on whole train, detachment takes place.
• Front unit reopened, boarding allowed until departure
• Front unit departs at xx:34 to Norwich
• Rear unit shunted by depot driver to Eastcroft depot, as 5Rxx
• XC service from Birmingham arrives in platform 7
• 5Rxx moves back to Platform 7
• Unit from Norwich arrives, unloads passengers
• Unit from Norwich locked, coupling takes place
• Units reopened
• Departure of both units to Liverpool, 6 minutes after xx:41 to BHM departs

However, not all services are booked 4 cars to Liverpool (as per EMT's Timetable 2)
Sometimes the rear unit works forward to Norwich if the front is required for maintenance and would otherwise finish at Norwich.

 

[starrymarkb]

My experience of SWT at Salisbury (as a passenger)

Passengers are allowed to board the unit(s) in platform.

On the arriving unit(s) from Exeter a PA announcement is made advising that there will be a delay in the door release for the coupling and advising passengers to remain seated.

The arriving unit(s) pull up just short of the unit(s) in the platform, then pull up and the units are banged together. The arriving units then do a pull test (rev up in reverse)

Doors are released.

Train and Catering Crew changes over and trolley is swapped for a full one

Usually the whole procedure takes less then 5 mins from the Exeter portion arriving to the combined formation departing

 

[devinier]

From the arrival of the service from Liverpool at xx:26:

• Pair of 158s arrives at Nottingham
• Passengers alight, and allowed to board front two only.
• Doors close on whole train, detachment takes place.
• Front unit reopened, boarding allowed until departure
• Front unit departs at xx:34 to Norwich
• Rear unit shunted by depot driver to Eastcroft depot, as 5Rxx
• XC service from Birmingham arrives in platform 7
• 5Rxx moves back to Platform 7
• Unit from Norwich arrives, unloads passengers
• Unit from Norwich locked, coupling takes place
• Units reopened
• Departure of both units to Liverpool, 6 minutes after xx:41 to BHM departs

However, not all services are booked 4 cars to Liverpool (as per EMT's Timetable 2)
Sometimes the rear unit works forward to Norwich if the front is required for maintenance and would otherwise finish at Norwich.

Spot on, other than occasionally it's the front portion from Liverpool which detaches and shunts to Eastcroft before the rear unit continues to Norwich. Likewise sometimes the Unit from Norwich enters the station before the attachment comes in from Eastcroft - it then goes on the rear.

 

[TEW]

Usually the whole procedure takes less then 5 mins from the Exeter portion arriving to the combined formation departing

Dwell time was only 3.5 minutes the other day on a service I was on that attached a portion at Salisbury. Not releasing the doors on the in service unit before the attachment saves a fair amount of time.

 

[edwin_m]

Dwell time was only 3.5 minutes the other day on a service I was on that attached a portion at Salisbury. Not releasing the doors on the in service unit before the attachment saves a fair amount of time.

The dwell time at Nottingham is considerably longer, due to the fact that the paths in and out don't match very well, so it's possible to release arriving passengers as soon as the train arrives. Arriving at your destination only to have to wait a couple of minutes before you can leave the train is quite annoying.

 

[3141]

My experience of SWT at Salisbury (as a passenger)

Passengers are allowed to board the unit(s) in platform.

On the arriving unit(s) from Exeter a PA announcement is made advising that there will be a delay in the door release for the coupling and advising passengers to remain seated.

The arriving unit(s) pull up just short of the unit(s) in the platform, then pull up and the units are banged together. The arriving units then do a pull test (rev up in reverse)

Doors are released.

Train and Catering Crew changes over and trolley is swapped for a full one

Usually the whole procedure takes less then 5 mins from the Exeter portion arriving to the combined formation departing

Yes, the operation at Salisbury always seem to go smoothly and quickly. It's surprising that when coupling/uncoupling is suggested for a service there's often a lot of criticism about how long it will take and what a problem it's likely to be.

 

[hassaanhc]

Yes, the operation at Salisbury always seem to go smoothly and quickly. It's surprising that when coupling/uncoupling is suggested for a service there's often a lot of criticism about how long it will take and what a problem it's likely to be.

Also Bournemouth. Watched an attachment take place there a couple of months ago.

450 moved into platform from sidings a few minutes before arrival of 444 from Weymouth.
444 stops short (complete with dispatcher shouting at people to stand back).
444 is moved forward slowly to attach to the 450 (no force needed).
The attachment is done and the electrical connections are established.
Doors are released and crew of 444 leaves (in this case it took several presses of the open button to get the 450 doors to open. Also not sure if the crew that came in with the 444 continued or if it was a different crew).

I remember a recent thread saying that the Dellner coupler is good for easy attaching (the 444/450 have them but not the 158/159). Today I was stood next to a 360 at Liverpool Street as another attached to it, again no force needed. Whereas I remember a 321 requiring quite a bang.

 

[Kentish Paul]

I think that some of the time taken depends on the timetable.

The slickest I've come across are 395's. Many times I've been in coach 2 of 12 that splits at Ashford (6+6) and by the time i've walked back to the join the 2nd unit has detached and reversed. Also with both 375 and 395 the doors on the front unit remain unlocked during detachment. During attachment both units are locked although both are open before the actual join up. Not always an announcement to remain seated either.

Only other experience is at Salisbury (As mentioned above) on my many trips to Yeovil. Never any problems and always seems to go smoothly and fairly quickly.

 

[deltic08]

I was at Utrecht station waiting for a train to Rotterdam and the Hook for the ferry back to Harwich. Timetabled dwell time was 2 minutes for my train. A twin Koplopper arrived, split in seconds, passengers got off, others boarded the correct portion and both portions departed in opposite directions within two minutes.

 

[ryan125hst]

Thanks for your responses It's interesting to see that passengers are allowed to alight from the rear unit before the coupling has taken place on East Midlands Trains, whereas on South West Trains, a sister company, passengers have to wait until the trains are coupled before the doors are released.

Is this because of the longer dwell time at Nottingham for EMT, or just company policies that have maybe be carried over from previous operators or from when different stock was used?

 

[atraindriver]

Thanks for your responses It's interesting to see that passengers are allowed to alight from the rear unit before the coupling has taken place on East Midlands Trains[...]

Is this because of the longer dwell time at Nottingham for EMT, or just company policies that have maybe be carried over from previous operators or from when different stock was used?

There is a company policy that passengers should be allowed to alight first, but often as not it depends on who is doing the attach - if it's the inward driver, who'll be getting off once the attach has been done, then it's more likely to be attach then alight; if the attach is being done by the forward driver or (as is quite likely at Nottingham) a depot driver, then needless to say the doors will be released for the inward crew to escape before the attach is done!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was at Utrecht station waiting for a train to Rotterdam and the Hook for the ferry back to Harwich. Timetabled dwell time was 2 minutes for my train. A twin Koplopper arrived, split in seconds, passengers got off, others boarded the correct portion and both portions departed in opposite directions within two minutes.

The big difference between the UK and mainland Europe is that across Europe the norm is that attach & detach can be done with the doors open.

Here in the UK, doors must be closed in order to get brake interlock as otherwise it's not possible to carry out the coupling procedure correctly.

The main reason for this difference is that UK coupling procedures include a brake test whereas across Europe it seems brake tests are the exception for trains with auto-couplers rather than the rule.

The other big difference is that (unless things have changed in the 10 years or so since I was last there) in the Netherlands an uncouple is purely physical: if you look at the trains they still appear to be coupled right until they pull away in different directions.
Here we physically separate our trains partly to make sure they actually have uncoupled and partly to make it clear to the passengers where the separation between the two trains actually is.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The big difference between the UK and mainland Europe is that across Europe the norm is that attach & detach can be done with the doors open.

Does that apply to Desiros? I thought that whilst coupled the cabs are essentially dead

 

[LowLevel]

It's generally left up to the guard how to operate the doors and they'll come to an agreement with the driver, however 99/100 on the Liverpool Norwich attachments and detachments passengers are allowed to alight first, it's good customer service as they may have connections to make and there's plenty of time.

 

[starrymarkb]

At Salisbury the delay for the door release is usually less then a minute. They are very quick!

 

[atraindriver]

Does that apply to Desiros? I thought that whilst coupled the cabs are essentially dead

All cabs are dead until a master key is put in them, coupled or not.

 

[Qwerty133]

There is a company policy that passengers should be allowed to alight first, but often as not it depends on who is doing the attach - if it's the inward driver, who'll be getting off once the attach has been done, then it's more likely to be attach then alight; if the attach is being done by the forward driver or (as is quite likely at Nottingham) a depot driver, then needless to say the doors will be released for the inward crew to escape before the attach is done!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The big difference between the UK and mainland Europe is that across Europe the norm is that attach & detach can be done with the doors open.

Here in the UK, doors must be closed in order to get brake interlock as otherwise it's not possible to carry out the coupling procedure correctly.

The main reason for this difference is that UK coupling procedures include a brake test whereas across Europe it seems brake tests are the exception for trains with auto-couplers rather than the rule.

The other big difference is that (unless things have changed in the 10 years or so since I was last there) in the Netherlands an uncouple is purely physical: if you look at the trains they still appear to be coupled right until they pull away in different directions.
Here we physically separate our trains partly to make sure they actually have uncoupled and partly to make it clear to the passengers where the separation between the two trains actually is.

Not true on all stock, I've been on many XC 170s at Leicester that have coupled with the door open.

 

[Bigfoot]

Coupled to with the door open perhaps. But I doubt very much (that thing called interlock) will allow the moving unit to attach with the doors open.

 

[MrC]

The main reason for this difference is that UK coupling procedures include a brake test

Not on 444/450s (which also don't have a couple button). Suspect it's the same for other Siemens stock of a similar vintage.

 

[hassaanhc]

The other day I was on a 450 that attached to another 450 already in the platform on arrival at Waterloo. There was no announcement that an attachment was to take place. When they did couple it only felt like the driver braked a bit hard . Then double beep (probably from driver to indicate attachment complete) before doors were opened.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When i was last on a 444 in a London-bound direction, as we approached Bournemouth there was an automated PA message that there would be a short delay before the doors would be released. I think we was coupling onto a 444 that was already in the station

 

[atraindriver]

Not on 444/450s (which also don't have a couple button). Suspect it's the same for other Siemens stock of a similar vintage.

No brake test at all? Not even a partial release?
That does surprise me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not true on all stock, I've been on many XC 170s at Leicester that have coupled with the door open.

It's perfectly possible to physically attach one unit to another with the doors open on the stationary unit, but the couple process won't be successfully completed with the doors open on either unit - unless 170s have changed drastically in the past 5 years or so (which is entirely possible!)

 

[MrC]

No brake test at all? Not even a partial release?

Nope. 6', close as you can, attach, wait for cab lights to come on/tail lamps to go out, acknowledge config on TMS then key/lights off, tell guard they can release doors and do connecting doors. No couple button, no pull away test, no brake test. Simples

 

[atraindriver]

Nope. 6', close as you can, attach, wait for cab lights to come on/tail lamps to go out, acknowledge config on TMS then key/lights off, tell guard they can release doors and do connecting doors. No couple button, no pull away test, no brake test. Simples

Gotta be a German thing!

How on earth did they get the lack of pull-test past the Safety Mafiya?

 

[455driver]

Does that apply to Desiros? I thought that whilst coupled the cabs are essentially dead

You are correct where the 444 and 450s are concerned, key on and nothing happens until you hit the uncouple button, then all hell lets loose with the lights and warning sounds going off all over the place.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

They prefer it if you have all doors closed on 444/450 when coupling up, however experience has proven that you can couple up to another with the doors released with no problems or ill effects.

 

[OxtedL]

The most impressive coupling/uncoupling operation I can think of happens on the Hamburg S-Bahn line 1, where on a 10-minute frequency every train splits at Ohlsdorf with a portion for the Airport and a portion for Poppenbüttel, and of course the reverse in the opposite direction.

There is a youtube video of the operation here. The splitting trains don't uncouple until the front portion is actually departing the station.

I suppose that if you can get the mechanical coupling to work reliably enough, and get a computer to check the other important stuff, you can cut a lot of the work out of the whole affair.

(On the other side of Hamburg the S1 reverses halfway down it's route out of town, onto a single track branch with passing loops, still at 10 minute frequency for much of the day. It's like the Germans decided to throw away all the rules...)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

No, the Germans aren't bound head to toe and strangled by unnecessary red tape.