First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

There was a discussion about Bristol buses on BBC Radio Bristol this morning. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02492zq

Whilst I can understand why First are axing the service because it's not profitable enough, I do though think that some solution/compromise must surely be found either by First or another operator so that people are not left without a bus service local to them(or travelling to certain destinations along the 20 route).

I noticed this posting on Twitter from City Fox Bus(??!!) https://twitter.com/CityFoxLimited/status/501358999896621057/photo/1 I wouldn't hold your breath for that happening though!

Anyone here who hasn't been on the 20 yet, well you now only have a week a half to do so before it's AXED!

If there's a social need, then it's local authorities who have the responsibility even though it's not a statutory duty. Not up to First or any other firm to run at a loss. How about all the evening services that got pulled in Somerset? Or the Saturday 102? Where does the line get drawn and if BCC can fritter money on the 901, they can sort this too!

 

[swifty]

If there's a social need, then it's local authorities who have the responsibility even though it's not a statutory duty. Not up to First or any other firm to run at a loss. How about all the evening services that got pulled in Somerset? Or the Saturday 102? Where does the line get drawn and if BCC can fritter money on the 901, they can sort this too!

And whenever I see the 20 in the centre its empty, so that must mean no one uses it!

Although on a serious note I can remember when it was a cross city route, worked by Gemini in the peak, it used to be quite well loaded going up towards Cotham.

 

[Class 33]

I'll try and get one more ride on the 20 on a peak Northbound weekday service before the end of next week. Will see how busy it is then.

Feel sorry for the elderly and people with mobility problems in particular, who will have over a 20 minute walk to get to another bus stop for an alternative service.

Anyway, I'm just watching on the sidelines to see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

[DaveHarries]

I noticed this posting on Twitter from City Fox Bus(??!!) https://twitter.com/CityFoxLimited/status/501358999896621057/photo/1 I wouldn't hold your breath for that happening though!

And neither would I: the website link is broken!

The 20 in its present form is a far cry from 5 to 10 years ago when, between Westbury and the City Centre, it was:

20 to Westbury via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Kings Drive, Horfield
21 to Westbury via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Kellaway Ave, Horfield
22 to Lawrence Weston via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Henleaze Road, Westbury
23 to Avonmouth via. via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Henleaze Road, Westbury, Sea Mills

Not sure if the Lawrence Weston bit was numbered 22 or 22A but it didn't last too long before being cut back to Westbury. But those were the days: I used to use that route in the evenings and during the days on Mondays to Saturdays. Haven't had a reason to use it for sometime.

The pregnant wife of a friend of mine works at St. Michael's Hospital: she is inevitably none too happy about the loss of the 20.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'll try and get one more ride on the 20 on a peak Northbound weekday service before the end of next week. Will see how busy it is then.

Feel sorry for the elderly and people with mobility problems in particular, who will have over a 20 minute walk to get to another bus stop for an alternative service.

Anyway, I'm just watching on the sidelines to see what happens in the coming weeks.

We shall see if Mayor George reaches into his red trouser pocket with some dosh, even for an off peak facility. Very unscientific but when I travelled on it the other week (lunchtime southbound), it carried a few (as many as ten?) but the most popular stops were in Central Southmead and they were mainly still on at Gloucester Road so wonder how much is cannibalisation of other routes? That said, I'm sure there are genuine cases of social loss so over to BCC.

As an aside, during my summer off work, as well as the 20, I also enjoyed in Somerset and Avon.....

1, 2, 4 (TN), 5 (BH), 7, 9, 11, 14 (BH), 17, 18, 21 (BR), 25, 30, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, 54, 57, 70, 75, 76, 82, 90, 102, 126, 173, 175, 178, 179, 224, 265, 310, 311, 312, 319, 376, 377, 379, 501, 502, 508, A4, X1, X5, X8, X39, X49, X75

Not bad selection (and there were also forays in the North East, Wiltshire, North Wales and the West and South Midlands). I just didn't make it to Dorset!

Sadly, I'll not get the chance again but then catching the 311 out of Dursley to Bristol was quite stunning. And I painted the house too!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not one that's seared onto my memory. However, I can't believe that it's as bad as Bath's 44919. Very possibly one of the worst buses I have ever been on (Vicbury will also bear testament). At least 32011 is 14 years old - 44919 hasn't even got that excuse!!

Haven't been on 44919 but 32011 last night was epic. Going up Hanham Common was an experience! The refurbished B7/ALX400s have got leather seats but even so they're still looking tired.

 

[Class 33]

And neither would I: the website link is broken!

The 20 in its present form is a far cry from 5 to 10 years ago when, between Westbury and the City Centre, it was:

20 to Westbury via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Kings Drive, Horfield
21 to Westbury via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Kellaway Ave, Horfield
22 to Lawrence Weston via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Henleaze Road, Westbury
23 to Avonmouth via. via. Kingsdown, Cranbrook Road, Henleaze Road, Westbury, Sea Mills

When was there a 22 to Lawrence Weston* and 23 to Avonmouth? I can't remember that. And can't see any record of it on the web archive pages of First Bristol & Bath website. I do remember when these services terminated at Sea Mills though.

EDIT: Upon further investigation yes proof of the services 22 & 23 you mention. Though going back a little farther than you mentioned. Back to 1998. Service 20 Lawrence Weston-Ashton Vale, Service 22 Lawrence Weston-Ashton Vale, and service 23 Avonmouth-Hartcliffe!! http://www.bvbg.org.uk/Routes 1998.htm

* though I do remember the old Pre October 1986 service 22 from Lockleaze-Lawrence Weston. Completely unrelated to the current service 20.

 

[swifty]

Going up Hanham Common was an experience!

I don't suppose you mean Bryant's Hill if you were heading into town, or Naggs Head?

 

[ValleyLines142]

I don't suppose you mean Bryant's Hill if you were heading into town, or Naggs Head?

Both! Even going down Memorial Road was bad enough!

Imagine 32011 going up Park Street or through Westbury-on-Trym!

 

[swifty]

When was there a 22 to Lawrence Weston* and 23 to Avonmouth? I can't remember that. And can't see any record of it on the web archive pages of First Bristol & Bath website. I do remember when these services terminated at Sea Mills though.

22 was '98/'99 and the 22A carried on until '01, where as the 23 was '01 also.
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Both! Even going down Memorial Road was bad enough!

Imagine 32011 going up Park Street or through Westbury-on-Trym!

Ah Memorial Road, I'm convinced driving along there everyday has knackered my suspension. It's got to be one of the most un-even and potholed road this side of Bristol. Can't say any of the B7s I've had along there have been that bad to be honest, but then I've not had the pleasure of 32011 in along time!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

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Ah Memorial Road, I'm convinced driving along there everyday has knackered my suspension. It's got to be one of the most un-even and potholed road this side of Bristol. Can't say any of the B7s I've had along there have been that bad to be honest, but then I've not had the pleasure of 32011 in along time!

Yeah, pretty bad along there. Probably is the worst since they resurfaced Lower Hanham Road a year or two back.

Not common to see a B7 on there now though when I moved down, those B7s were the pride of LH (and were usually found on 41/43). Us poor relations on the 44/45 had S-AAE Olympians plus LWS-Y examples at peak! They soon went and we got the P-UCW ex Centrewest ones which were quite nice.

The Bristol fleet isn't that bad now. Oldest deckers are 14 years old, most Darts are ok (excl Marshalls and a number of 42701-37) though the B6s are knackered. Still.....better than those ex Yorkshire Lances.

 

[freetoview33]

I used to use the 20/21/22 all the time until last year. And as I said before it is a shock how much it has declined! From having 8bph in the morning peak to being withdrawn!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I used to use the 20/21/22 all the time until last year. And as I said before it is a shock how much it has declined! From having 8bph in the morning peak to being withdrawn!

Guess, in that case, it begs the question(s). If it was a popular route, why not now? If it's mismanagement, then why hasn't anyone come forward yet to register a replacement? Or did it survive by abstracting trade from elsewhere?

Just asking, mind!

 

[swifty]

I used to use the 20/21/22 all the time until last year. And as I said before it is a shock how much it has declined! From having 8bph in the morning peak to being withdrawn!

I've just checked my '97 CityLine timetable book and the 20/1/2 were every 6 minutes during the peaks going down to every 9 (roughly) during the day. But what we have to remember is this was during a time when the majority of services were being operated by 17-23 seater buses and car ownership was much lower than it is now. However as you say, comparing the timetable to today is a shocker!

 

[freetoview33]

I think it is a mix of other routes improving nearby/drop in demand anyway/service being split and frequency decrease, although maybe with a few route changes it could be more viable.
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I've just checked my '97 CityLine timetable book and the 20/1/2 were every 6 minutes during the peaks going down to every 9 (roughly) during the day. But what we have to remember is this was during a time when the majority of services were being operated by 17-23 seater buses and car ownership was much lower than it is now. However as you say, comparing the timetable to today is a shocker!

In 2003/4 the 20/21 were running 6 singles (Same buses that are still about now) and 3 double deckers between 7am and 8am!

This was for St Mary Redcliffe school mainly (and yes I did go there so I know!)

There was also a 429 running from Redcliffe Hill - Direct up cheltenham road (The arches) - then up cranbrook road - White tree - then to Avonmouth like the 41. (Even though it was a school service, I always thought it would make a good service otherwise.)

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yeah, pretty bad along there. Probably is the worst since they resurfaced Lower Hanham Road a year or two back.

Not common to see a B7 on there now though when I moved down, those B7s were the pride of LH (and were usually found on 41/43). Us poor relations on the 44/45 had S-AAE Olympians plus LWS-Y examples at peak! They soon went and we got the P-UCW ex Centrewest ones which were quite nice.

The Bristol fleet isn't that bad now. Oldest deckers are 14 years old, most Darts are ok (excl Marshalls and a number of 42701-37) though the B6s are knackered. Still.....better than those ex Yorkshire Lances.

I don't think it'd be so bad on a Gemini though, obviously it was different to have an ALX400 anyway.

Saw one of the R-BAE's on the 70 this morning, not good! All about Streetlites!!

 

[swifty]

I don't think it'd be so bad on a Gemini though, obviously it was different to have an ALX400 anyway.

It's still bad, just not as bad, although some drivers do go fairly slowly along there to be fair to them.

 

[vicbury]

Haven't been on 44919 but 32011 last night was epic. Going up Hanham Common was an experience! The refurbished B7/ALX400s have got leather seats but even so they're still looking tired.

Haven't seen 44919 for a while, hopefully it's off the road with an engine failure! Travelled on 44921 last night - that one's a candidate for breakdown in the near future. Engine timing was all over the place, engine cooling fan constantly running, and the engine warning buzzer kept sounding!

Also travelled on one of the Darts from Hampshire, in very good condition but ever so bouncy!

 

[DaveHarries]

When was there a 22 to Lawrence Weston* and 23 to Avonmouth? I can't remember that. And can't see any record of it on the web archive pages of First Bristol & Bath website. I do remember when these services terminated at Sea Mills though.

EDIT: Upon further investigation yes proof of the services 22 & 23 you mention. Though going back a little farther than you mentioned. Back to 1998. Service 20 Lawrence Weston-Ashton Vale, Service 22 Lawrence Weston-Ashton Vale, and service 23 Avonmouth-Hartcliffe!!

I don't remember the 22 ever going to Sea Mills: when did it stop doing that? I see that, on the link you give, there is no reference to the 28 / 528 (Avonmouth - Hartcliffe) which I guess replaced the 23 between those two points. I was a regular user of the 28's successor(s), the 528 & 530, and was sorry when they got dropped. I used to use them for getting to the bus station to get the X1 to Weston when I went to College there (2000 - 2003) and I would use them in the evenings when I used to catch up with mates in the pubs down by The Arches (Cheltenham Road) and in town. I always found that, on some evenings, the 528 & 530 were more punctual, and better with timing, than the 43! The chief problem in the mornings though was the usage of Mercedes 709Ds on that route in the peak hour as there was so little space to accommodate all the passengers. We would sometimes get a Dart (usually an SLF) and that was always a blessing: I would love to see the 528 and / or 530 come back in some form.

Come to think of it, I was once riding my bike along the A4 Portway cycle track, back in 2005 I think, and I dropped my phone over into the undergrowth below. I decided to look for it and, while doing so, found a duty card containing journeys on Services 527 & 529 (Lawrence Weston - Hartcliffe, IIRC!!). It was a Weston-super-Mare duty though, worked by a vehicle that arrived from Weston-super-Mare as a 353, which made it all the more interesting. I haven't seen the duty card for a while and I am not sure what I did with it: I may have thrown it out by accident which would be a shame. When did the 527 & 529 cease though?

Dave

 

[swifty]

I don't remember the 22 ever going to Sea Mills: when did it stop doing that? I see that, on the link you give, there is no reference to the 28 / 528 (Avonmouth - Hartcliffe) which I guess replaced the 23 between those two points. I was a regular user of the 28's successor(s), the 528 & 530, and was sorry when they got dropped. I used to use them for getting to the bus station to get the X1 to Weston when I went to College there (2000 - 2003) and I would use them in the evenings when I used to catch up with mates in the pubs down by The Arches (Cheltenham Road) and in town. I always found that, on some evenings, the 528 & 530 were more punctual, and better with timing, than the 43! The chief problem in the mornings though was the usage of Mercedes 709Ds on that route in the peak hour as there was so little space to accommodate all the passengers. We would sometimes get a Dart (usually an SLF) and that was always a blessing: I would love to see the 528 and / or 530 come back in some form.

Come to think of it, I was once riding my bike along the A4 Portway cycle track, back in 2005 I think, and I dropped my phone over into the undergrowth below. I decided to look for it and, while doing so, found a duty card containing journeys on Services 527 & 529 (Lawrence Weston - Hartcliffe, IIRC!!). It was a Weston-super-Mare duty though, worked by a vehicle that arrived from Weston-super-Mare as a 353, which made it all the more interesting. I haven't seen the duty card for a while and I am not sure what I did with it: I may have thrown it out by accident which would be a shame. When did the 527 & 529 cease though?

Dave

I'm not sure the 22 did go to Sea Mills, the 23 certainly did. The 23, 528/30 all finished in 2001, whilst the 527/9 finished in 1994! Badgerline won the tender for the 527/8/9 back at the beginning of de-reg and it was a 7 bus op, 2 of which worked of the back of routes in from Weston.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Cleared another bus route last night, this time the 43 from the Tennis Court Inn to the centre, on 37014 (which was much smoother than 32011!). Somehow managed to leave The Tennis Court at 1940 and catch the 2015 train from Temple Meads!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Cleared another bus route last night, this time the 43 from the Tennis Court Inn to the centre, on 37014 (which was much smoother than 32011!). Somehow managed to leave The Tennis Court at 1940 and catch the 2015 train from Temple Meads!

You should've popped into the Wetherspoons in Kingswood. That would've been an experience for you

 

[ValleyLines142]

You should've popped into the Wetherspoons in Kingswood. That would've been an experience for you

I went to the toilet there! They were bad enough, let alone the bar!

Last week my friend drove us through the town in the bus lane! Cue funny looks from a driver on the 42!

 

[CD]

You should've popped into the Wetherspoons in Kingswood. That would've been an experience for you

Ten years ago The Kingswood Colliers was one of the best Wetherspoons in Bristol. Good quality real ales and good food. Its sad to hear of its decline.
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I went to the toilet there! They were bad enough, let alone the bar!

Last week my friend drove us through the town in the bus lane! Cue funny looks from a driver on the 42!

And a £60 fine through his letterbox?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ten years ago The Kingswood Colliers was one of the best Wetherspoons in Bristol. Good quality real ales and good food. Its sad to hear of its decline.
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And a £60 fine through his letterbox?

Colliers is a bit rough but par for the course in Kingswood (e.g. Black Horses, Essex). The Star was the best but not been in for at least 3 years :cry:

Doing a pub crawl inspired by the 45 tomorrow. Start at Maypole and finish at Pied Horse!

 

[THarris123]

Well it looks to me like 69445 has left Wells. I have no idea where it is and whether it's having maintenance work done. I have been working down Wells for the past 4 weeks and haven't seen it at all. Seems a bit strange?

 

[Private Baxter]

Doing a pub crawl inspired by the 45 tomorrow. Start at Maypole and finish at Pied Horse!

I'd like to do a 376 pub crawl, though I think I'd have to be on the first bus of the day that leaves Street!

Well it looks to me like 69445 has left Wells. I have no idea where it is and whether it's having maintenance work done. I have been working down Wells for the past 4 weeks and haven't seen it at all. Seems a bit strange?

Interesting. I haven't seen it, although I haven't been looking, but now you mention it.... But due to real shortages in Wells, I really don't think it can have gone far. Maybe just prolonged maintence? I doubt they would randomly transfer it elswhere, especially as it hasn't been replaced by anything.

 

[THarris123]

I'd like to do a 376 pub crawl, though I think I'd have to be on the first bus of the day that leaves Street!



Interesting. I haven't seen it, although I haven't been looking, but now you mention it.... But due to real shortages in Wells, I really don't think it can have gone far. Maybe just prolonged maintence? I doubt they would randomly transfer it elswhere, especially as it hasn't been replaced by anything.

I couldn't really do a pub crawl on the 376 - all the pubs along this way are slowly fading away - Temple Inn - gone, Warwick Arms - too stuck up and expensive, Camelot Inn - Impossible to get to - all the good ones are not so easy to get to!

Wells do seem to be very short at the moment. They have 1 bus in the depot as a spare all the time - I have seen 2 buses in, but have assumed this other one will go out on another duty (i.e. 375, 173, 377 or X75).

Today I saw/assumed the following - 161 - 41144 and 46603 were on there; X75 - 43849 was on this and assumed two ALX200s were on this; 377 - assumed 66100 (saw this one this evening), 66107 & 66160, as 66108 was in the depot this morning; 375 - assuming the other ALX200 and a B7 were on there; the 02 plate B7 and 2 69*** range were on 173; therefore leaving 7 59 plate Eclipse buses on 376 (saw 69446, 69443, 69438, 69440, 69448). 69442 was in the depot this evening and 66108 wasn't - therefore assuming this was on 375.

It's as a driver said to me last week - it only needs 1 person to be sick on one bus, a puncher on another and a break down and Wells has to start cancelling journeys - not good.

Whilst we are on the subject of Wells, got a response from First and the traffic commissioner to say they are looking into the poor performance of the 376. Could we see some improvements in Nov or Jan/Feb?

 

[ValleyLines142]

And a £60 fine through his letterbox?

Through whose?

 

[swifty]

Through whose?

Your friend who drove down the bus lane, although he might be lucky because AFAIK South Glos don't bother to enforce their bus lanes!