Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[Merseysider]

Northern have finally started putting posters up, however they're not at every station.

With just 3 weeks until the changes, this is definitely going to catch some people out, especially those who travel less frequently and those who pay no attention to the incessant layers of posters and advertisements on the railway.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Proper posters should arrive at stations on Monday, smaller ones have been emailed around so that ticket offices can display them if they wish.

 

[Merseysider]

Proper posters should arrive at stations on Monday, smaller ones have been emailed around so that ticket offices can display them if they wish.

Are you aware of any plans to put notices (either verbal or visual) on trains?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't know of any plans, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

 

[johntea]

Wonder if they dare to stick it up next to this poster (Which for the record makes zero sense to begin with, how does installing new ticket machines save money on tickets?!)

 

[IanXC]

Wonder if they dare to stick it up next to this poster (Which for the record makes zero sense to begin with, how does installing new ticket machines save money on tickets?!)

So that we can use ToD to collect other TOC's better value tickets?

 

[Merseysider]

"I want better value"

"No problem, we'll double the cost of travelling in the evening!"

 

[yorkie]

I can't recall other operators putting up posters; they tend to just change the ticket restrictions and/or remove permitted routes and/or bump up fares without notice.

Passengers are seemingly expected to check the validity of their ticket each time they travel.

 

[TOCDriver]

I can't recall other operators putting up posters; they tend to just change the ticket restrictions and/or remove permitted routes and/or bump up fares without notice.

Passengers are seemingly expected to check the validity of their ticket each time they travel.

A significant minority of passengers can't even read, never mind check the validity of a ticket in an overcomplicated mess of a system

 

[yorkie]

A significant minority of passengers can't even read, never mind check the validity of a ticket in an overcomplicated mess of a system

Are you saying the Train Companies are telling porkies?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46442.aspx

"The new fare names simplify the choice, allowing you to choose your rail ticket with confidence"

"The new fare names describe when you can buy or use your ticket, making it easier for you to decide what ticket suits your journey"

" ...you can quickly work out what ticket you need to make your journey."

"Ticket terms and conditions are now the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand."

I'd love to see these claims tested in court!

 

[Merseysider]

"Ticket terms and conditions are now the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand."

I'd love to see these claims tested in court!

A: Not true.
B: Not true.

Wait, I forgot that despite Merseyrail having no afternoon peak, a lot of journeys from Wales to London effectively having no peak at all, and the TfL system being you can tap in off-peak and board a train in the peak, it is the same across all train companies nationwide!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A: Not true.
B: Not true.

Wait, I forgot that despite Merseyrail having no afternoon peak, a lot of journeys from Wales to London effectively having no peak at all, and the TfL system being you can tap in off-peak and board a train in the peak, it is the same across all train companies nationwide!

A is true, if B refers to A then B can also be true.

Let's not confuse 'Terms and Conditions' with the 'validity codes'.

 

[Merseysider]

A is true, if B refers to A then B can also be true.

Let's not confuse 'Terms and Conditions' with the 'validity codes'.

I was thinking more along the lines of e-tickets, print at home tickets and standard credit card-sized tickets having completely different T&Cs.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I was thinking more along the lines of e-tickets, print at home tickets and standard credit card-sized tickets having completely different T&Cs.

I think in most, if not all, cases (I think all cases but I'm not certain), those differences are more to do with the medium than the ticket.

 

[spargazer]

Does this mean that the concessionary pass does not apply during this new peak time?
and will this be applied to bus travel and metrolink? and other operators

 

[Starmill]

The answers to your questions are already in this thread. There are no restrictions on buses, the restrictions on Metrolink remain at 0930 and it does not look like there will be any changes to the concessionary schemes in relation to this fares increase.

 

[Deerfold]

Does this mean that the concessionary pass does not apply during this new peak time?
and will this be applied to bus travel and metrolink? and other operators

With concessionary passes Bus travel will be unaffected.

In West Yorkshire where the pass grants half price travel after 0930 to most holders they will now be able to buy a half price Anytime ticket, only valid after 0930 (I know, I know).

I doubt Metrolink will be affected immediately but cannot guarantee it.

 

[Rail Ranger]

I can only speak for the Greater Manchester area but I can confirm that TfGM "Over 60s" and Concessionary ENCTS "bus passes" will still be valid for free travel on local rail services in the TfGM area (i.e. including Glossop and Hadfield) in the Evening Peak after the changes kick in on Sunday 7th September. Wayfarer is also definitely not affected. Metrolink is only affected in that the System One Train and Tram Day Saver and the Train, Tram and Bus Day Saver will not be valid on local rail services for journeys starting on local rail between 16.01 and 18.29 on Monday to Friday. Also off-peak day returns between local rail stations in the TfGM area and Metrolink stations will not be valid for journeys starting on local rail between 16.01 and 18.29. Otherwise Metrolink is not affected (and will probably attract some former rail users onto the Ashton, Rochdale, Eccles and Altrincham lines). At least one Off-Peak Day Return will remain valid in the TfGM area during the Evening Peak: the £2.50 Virgin Trains Only Off-Peak Day Return between Stockport and Manchester.

 

[brompton rail]

With concessionary passes Bus travel will be unaffected.

In West Yorkshire where the pass grants half price travel after 0930 to most holders they will now be able to buy a half price Anytime ticket, only valid after 0930 (I know, I know).

I doubt Metrolink will be affected immediately but cannot guarantee it.

However in South Yorkshire the concession states that ENCT pass holders can purchase half price off peak day returns. Thus trains between 1601 and 1829 are barred because Anytime Day Returns can't be purchased, other than at full rate. Await further protests!

Ah, correction - the wording is that ENCT pass holders can purchase single or return day tickets for travel within South Yorkshire. So more confusion and passengers needing different tickets......

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm not sure if the question has been asked amongst the 34 pages of discussion yet but....

As I understand it, the new evening peak restrictions affect journeys wholly within West Yorkshire and wholly within South Yorkshire, but would the restrictions still apply if you were using an off peak return between South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire - eg Barnsley or Rotherham to Leeds?

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure if the question has been asked amongst the 34 pages of discussion yet but....

As I understand it, the new evening peak restrictions affect journeys wholly within West Yorkshire and wholly within South Yorkshire, but would the restrictions still apply if you were using an off peak return between South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire - eg Barnsley or Rotherham to Leeds?

No. This is mentioned in the opening post. There are a few restrictions which apply to journeys that are not "wholly within" the applicable area; this page on the Northern Rail website has details. The National Rail Enquiries website can also be used to search for individual journey opportunities.

 

[northwichcat]

One thing to note with Manchester area tickets is there's two kind of restrictions:

Restrictions apply to journeys that start and finish on routes marked in red.

For stations / routes marked in green restrictions apply to/from these locations to Manchester / Salford stations.

http://www.northernrail.org/tickets...um=Offline&utm_campaign=Off-peak-restrictions

The red routes include some stations 1 station outside of GM such as Styal, Parbold, Birchwood, Handforth and Disley. The green routes are all outside of GM.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

No. This is mentioned in the opening post. There are a few restrictions which apply to journeys that are not "wholly within" the applicable area; this page on the Northern Rail website has details. The National Rail Enquiries website can also be used to search for individual journey opportunities.

Thought as much but what if I choose to break my journey in Wakefield (for example) within peak times?

As this journey is wholly within West Yorkshire, I would expect this to not be permitted but then you have the bizarre situation of a ticket where one condition contradicts another!

 

[Deerfold]

Thought as much but what if I choose to break my journey in Wakefield (for example) within peak times?

As this journey is wholly within West Yorkshire, I would expect this to not be permitted but then you have the bizarre situation of a ticket where one condition contradicts another!

Restrictions apply to tickets. So long as break of journey is allowed that should be fine. This whole change is likely to open up all sorts of loopholes (but still most likely more expensive than before the changes).

 

[northwichcat]

Restrictions apply to tickets. So long as break of journey is allowed that should be fine. This whole change is likely to open up all sorts of loopholes (but still most likely more expensive than before the changes).

I think the inclusion of tickets such as Alderley Edge (Cheshire) to Salford Stations is partly aimed at preventing people intending to use loopholes.

It also seems if you have a Wigan Stations to Manchester CDR you could use it on the 15:59 departure from Wigan North Western. However, you can't get on the 15:53 departure from Wigan Wallgate for Manchester Airport, alight at Bolton and then board the 16:17 departure from Bolton for Manchester Victoria.

 

[neilmc]

As far as I can see, if you wish to travel morning off-peak from Manchester Piccadilly to Bramhall and return in the evening peak, your journey cost will leap from £4.20 to £7.70. However, if you buy an off-peak ticket to Poynton instead this will still cost £5.90 and be available for use in the evening peak so you can save by travelling short. Or have I missed something?

 

[northwichcat]

As far as I can see, if you wish to travel morning off-peak from Manchester Piccadilly to Bramhall and return in the evening peak, your journey cost will leap from £4.20 to £7.70. However, if you buy an off-peak ticket to Poynton instead this will still cost £5.90 and be available for use in the evening peak so you can save by travelling short. Or have I missed something?

That is correct. However, you will of course have to pay £1.70 more each time than you currently pay so Northern will still be collecting additional revenue.

It will also mean if you currently make a journey like Poynton to Bolton then a split at Bramhall might not make the significant saving it currently does as you'll be affected by the evening peak restrictions.

I think the change will see ticket sales to/from stations like Bramhall declining and ticket sales to/from sales like Poynton rising.

 

[jkdd77]

I think the inclusion of tickets such as Alderley Edge (Cheshire) to Salford Stations is partly aimed at preventing people intending to use loopholes.

It also seems if you have a Wigan Stations to Manchester CDR you could use it on the 15:59 departure from Wigan North Western. However, you can't get on the 15:53 departure from Wigan Wallgate for Manchester Airport, alight at Bolton and then board the 16:17 departure from Bolton for Manchester Victoria.

This will depend on the wording of the restriction code.

I haven't been able to find the relevant restriction code on the NRE website, but, if it is worded as I expect it to be, a journey started before 16:00 could be continued after 16:00, bearing in mind that a change of trains does not in itself constitute a BoJ. However, a broken journey could not be resumed during the 'barred period'.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

What a shame... this will double the cost of going into Manchester; I'll be using Virgin on a VT only single and blagging the return on the 2318

Northern Rail are the most customer unfriendly bunch of people

I love the comment regarding the 3 year ongoing issue of older TVM's not selling the Evening Returns by discontinuing them !!!

 

[northwichcat]

This will depend on the wording of the restriction code.

I haven't been able to find the relevant restriction code on the NRE website, but, if it is worded as I expect it to be, a journey started before 16:00 could be continued after 16:00, bearing in mind a change of trains does not in itself constitute a BoJ. However, a broken journey could not be resumed during the 'barred period'.

Journey Planners have been programmed to show Off-Peak Day Returns as invalid for such journeys from 8th September.