Gate line at unmanned staton to be installed

[Metobusfan]

When Govia stakes over Thameslink they going to instal gate line at stations like mill hill and lough bough jnc. They are going to man them but isn't that going to create headache for the ticket office then the gate like staff go and people get their tickets lost in the gate

 

[Andy-mc]

depending on the system they use most ticket gate barriers have a help point linked to a control room with a camera so if one got stuck theyd probably take the unfortunate persons details and sort out a refund for any additional tickets they needed to purchase and then send an engineer out

 

[LexyBoy]

It is not yet permitted for barriers to be in operation without someone responsible for them. This can be done remotely via CCTV but I'm pretty sure the person monitoring it must both be in the same station and not concerned with other duties - so it's OK to have one person looking after one gateline and monitoring CCTV for another, but not for that to be done by ticket office staff.

 

[Andy-mc]

yeah at my station it is manned at all times but when there short staffed they just open the barriers up

 

[itsjustmyjob]

I'd imagine they'll do what they do at Bradford Interchange. The barriers are operational and staffed during the day, but left open and unstaffed at other times.

 

[Mugby]

Will they ever be permitted to have barriers in operation without someone available to attend them?

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't see the point of the original question. The title says 'at unmanned station', but the text says 'they are going to man them'.

So by the time the gatelines are fitted they will be manned stations? Isn't that why GTR have already announced?

First to last train staffing at 101 busiest stations
New automatic gatelines at 21 stations

So as the new 21 barrier lines are likely to be at a subset of the 101 busiest stations, where's the actual problem going to be?

 

[fgwrich]

It is not yet permitted for barriers to be in operation without someone responsible for them. This can be done remotely via CCTV but I'm pretty sure the person monitoring it must both be in the same station and not concerned with other duties - so it's OK to have one person looking after one gateline and monitoring CCTV for another, but not for that to be done by ticket office staff.

Sounds very much like the way FGW operate that a few of their stations, Truro being one of them - Whereby the station is staffed with the usual station staff, and gateline on both sides of the station, but one side is monitored by CCTV & a Help screen linked to the manned gateline over in in the ticket office. Thereby any issues can be resolved remotely or someone can come over to the side if needed.

I'd imagine they'll do what they do at Bradford Interchange. The barriers are operational and staffed during the day, but left open and unstaffed at other times.

I do wonder about some stations though - I was passing through Blackfriars recently and noticed that the North Bank entrance is staffed and in operation, but the South Bank Entrance wasn't.

 

[12CSVT]

When Govia stakes over Thameslink they going to instal gate line at stations like mill hill and lough bough jnc. They are going to man them but isn't that going to create headache for the ticket office then the gate like staff go and people get their tickets lost in the gate

I wish them good luck with ticket gates at Loughborough Junction - they'll need it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The entrance to Mill Hill Broadway from the east (bus station side) is quite narrow so I would expect there to be room for possibly only 1 gate and a wide disabled gate - therefore is there any point in their installation? MHB is also a very busy station so gates would really be a hindrance IMHO

However the ticket office is adjacent to the eastern side entrance so I suppose the ticket clerk could "man" the gates from the ticket office.

 

[Bevan Price]

Will they ever be permitted to have barriers in operation without someone available to attend them?

They would be daft to try that, on health & safety grounds. Suppose there was a fire, and some people were unable to get out of the station ?

 

[hassaanhc]

Sounds very much like the way FGW operate that a few of their stations, Truro being one of them - Whereby the station is staffed with the usual station staff, and gateline on both sides of the station, but one side is monitored by CCTV & a Help screen linked to the manned gateline over in in the ticket office. Thereby any issues can be resolved remotely or someone can come over to the side if needed.



I do wonder about some stations though - I was passing through Blackfriars recently and noticed that the North Bank entrance is staffed and in operation, but the South Bank Entrance wasn't.

That sounds like what Southern have at Merstham and other stations. The London-bound platform at Merstham has the ticket office and that is where the member of staff on the barriers stands. Both sides have what is a help point, with a small monitor with a camera above it and pressing the button starts a video link to the other one where the member of staff should be. There is an additional camera lower down which has a notice telling passengers to show the ticket there. Then the member of staff opens the barriers.

 

[fgwrich]

That sounds like what Southern have at Merstham and other stations. The London-bound platform at Merstham has the ticket office and that is where the member of staff on the barriers stands. Both sides have what is a help point, with a small monitor with a camera above it and pressing the button starts a video link to the other one where the member of staff should be. There is an additional camera lower down which has a notice telling passengers to show the ticket there. Then the member of staff opens the barriers.

That's the way! I think it's a neat idea that does seem to work at quite a few stations - I'd expect it to be rolled out across the network in the future too with the increased use of barriers. And while some people may not like it, it's better than employing one of these outside security contractors that Northern & SWT seem to have done, the SWT ones still seem to be as clueless as ever.

They would be daft to try that, on health & safety grounds. Suppose there was a fire, and some people were unable to get out of the station ?

Like the way above - Those barriers by Cubic can be remotely controlled, have the flow of access switched, and opened and closed by the control panel, as well as a big red button for emergencies (sounds like a cliché). There quite simple to operate when you work with them!

 

[Metobusfan]

I don't see the point of the original question. The title says 'at unmanned station', but the text says 'they are going to man them'.

So by the time the gatelines are fitted they will be manned stations? Isn't that why GTR have already announced?



So as the new 21 barrier lines are likely to be at a subset of the 101 busiest stations, where's the actual problem going to be?

In the term of in manned I mean no platform staff e.g lough bough jnc

 

[causton]

They would be daft to try that, on health & safety grounds. Suppose there was a fire, and some people were unable to get out of the station ?

If a fire alarm is activated they will open. They also have big red Emergency Open buttons by the side of them to open so shouldn't be an issue

 

[Urban Gateline]

That sounds like what Southern have at Merstham and other stations. The London-bound platform at Merstham has the ticket office and that is where the member of staff on the barriers stands. Both sides have what is a help point, with a small monitor with a camera above it and pressing the button starts a video link to the other one where the member of staff should be. There is an additional camera lower down which has a notice telling passengers to show the ticket there. Then the member of staff opens the barriers.

That setup works well to discourage amateur chancers, but my issue with remote controlled Gatelines is that they are prone to abuse, hardened fare evaders will still tailgate, push through or climb over/crawl under, and with nobody there to stop them it's not great!

What is more interesting is that some of the stations with a remotely operated Gateline will leave the wide aisle gate open even when the main barriers are staffed, seen this many times at Willesden Junction (quite surprising as LOROL are tough on Fare evasion normally) and at my home station Surbiton!

 

[Qwerty133]

yeah at my station it is manned at all times but when there short staffed they just open the barriers up

All times?
Can't think of any barriers that are shut past around 7PM.

 

[Clip]

It is not yet permitted for barriers to be in operation without someone responsible for them. This can be done remotely via CCTV but I'm pretty sure the person monitoring it must both be in the same station and not concerned with other duties - so it's OK to have one person looking after one gateline and monitoring CCTV for another, but not for that to be done by ticket office staff.

It may have changed since I was there but at a station like Gerrards Cross they are indeed controlled by the ticket office staff via CCTV both upstairs and downstairs.

The entrance to Mill Hill Broadway from the east (bus station side) is quite narrow so I would expect there to be room for possibly only 1 gate and a wide disabled gate - therefore is there any point in their installation? MHB is also a very busy station so gates would really be a hindrance IMHO

However the ticket office is adjacent to the eastern side entrance so I suppose the ticket clerk could "man" the gates from the ticket office.

Thats all they have on the UP at Sydenham from memory and a couple of other stations on the LO route to IIRC

 

[Urban Gateline]

All times?
Can't think of any barriers that are shut past around 7PM.

7pm, really? I'm sure even up north stations like Leeds and Manchester Oxford Rd have barriers shut later in the evening. Down south there are some stations which have 24h Gateline operation like Brighton and East Croydon. (strangely enough no central London stations though)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thats all they have on the UP at Sydenham from memory and a couple of other stations on the LO route to IIRC

Indeed but at Sydenham, most people use the main entrance on the DOWN side which has recently been rebuilt to accommodate a wider gateline.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

7pm, really? I'm sure even up north stations like Leeds and Manchester Oxford Rd have barriers shut later in the evening. Down south there are some stations which have 24h Gateline operation like Brighton and East Croydon. (strangely enough no central London stations though)

I've passed through London Victoria and Charing Cross after 8pm with the gateline in operation

 

[Urban Gateline]

I've passed through London Victoria and Charing Cross after 8pm with the gateline in operation

Yes, 8pm is still early though, most London terminals don't man the barriers after 11pm, unlike Brighton and East Croydon where they are still staffed at 3am for example!

 

[Qwerty133]

7pm, really? I'm sure even up north stations like Leeds and Manchester Oxford Rd have barriers shut later in the evening. Down south there are some stations which have 24h Gateline operation like Brighton and East Croydon. (strangely enough no central London stations though)

Leicester definitely seems to be open by 7PM.

 

[Metobusfan]

Yes, 8pm is still early though, most London terminals don't man the barriers after 11pm, unlike Brighton and East Croydon where they are still staffed at 3am for example!

City Thameslink and blackfriars is unmanned gate line after 8pm yet they are london terminals

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've passed through London Victoria and Charing Cross after 8pm with the gateline in operation

Euston and Kings Cross gatelines are normally wide open by about 7.30

 

[jon0844]

Euston and Kings Cross gatelines are normally wide open by about 7.30

7.30pm? They'll have probably only come into operation a few hours before that at King's Cross (platforms 0-8) as they're open most of the day.

It's bizarre that FCC staff their gates a lot more, but you can of course get access to platforms 9-11 via platform 8, and at night a lot of trains use 0-8 too. Makes me wonder why FCC bothers, as EC is obviously not bothered about revenue protection and just does its checks on board (or not, as I've discovered many times).

 

[Tetchytyke]

you can of course get access to platforms 9-11 via platform 8

But there's a sign saying you're not allowed to

 

[Busaholic]

Indeed but at Sydenham, most people use the main entrance on the DOWN side which has recently been rebuilt to accommodate a wider gateline.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've passed through London Victoria and Charing Cross after 8pm with the gateline in operation

At Anerley station you could think you were back in a 'golden age': park right outside the station, with no parking restrictions and plenty of space in my experience, and go straight through the side entrance on to the 'up' platform- no gate and no member of staff. I haven't used it in a.m. peak, but certainly nobody manning it at other times. Much the same at West Dulwich, except you might have to walk five minutes to a free parking spot, but no gates at either platform. Just a shame about all the stairs at the latter- my sister, when she lived there, was unable to use the station for this reason.

 

[Saint66]

What time do the gates down to the Thameslink platforms open up at St Pancras? If they ever do? I've had to put my ticket through the gate at 10:30pm/11pm at night.

 

[LexyBoy]

It's bizarre that FCC staff their gates a lot more, but you can of course get access to platforms 9-11 via platform 8, and at night a lot of trains use 0-8 too. Makes me wonder why FCC bothers, as EC is obviously not bothered about revenue protection and just does its checks on board (or not, as I've discovered many times).

Only people trying to dodge their fare would know this though, so FCC succeed in the main goal of inconveniencing most passengers

EC seem to have realised that passengers getting an IC train are likely to have lots of baggage, food and hot drinks from the retailers NR encourages us to spend money in, which makes barriers quite a hassle - especially given the rush when platforms are announced. Plus many passengers will be on Advance tickets which barriers can't check anyway.

 

[jon0844]

But there's a sign saying you're not allowed to

Is that even there now they're doing all the work (opening things up by pulling down the wall)?