Kilometre - Kick it into Touch

[Butts]

Has anyone noticed how The Mile seems to be playing second fiddle to the Kilometre when used as a benchmark for distances in a lot of British Media Outlets.

Television and Newsprint seem to be equally guilty of this heinous crime :cry:

Perhaps it's because a lot of the younger presenters and journalists are not well versed with Imperial Measures.

Next thing you know some bright spark will suggest we switch over

 

[gswindale]

Examples please.

I cannot say that I've noticed this myself.

 

[starrymarkb]

About time

Next people will be telling you that the mile signed on our roads is 1600m rather then a mile and the yard is now a metre

 

[ac6000cw]

Next thing you know some bright spark will suggest we switch over

I think we should - it's time we consigned the weird, illogical Imperial weights and measures system to history.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The media seem to like using kms as the numbers seem bigger

 

[Ash Bridge]

Every other European country uses Metric, it's about time this one did.

 

[Emyr]

Engineers and physicists will tend to use km.

 

[radamfi]

Technical work is done in km. So you would need to convert to miles for public presentation and ensure that no mistakes are made. That sounds trivial but it does cost money.

Another reason for media outlets to use km is if the broadcast or article is to be seen or heard by people outside the UK. Obviously websites can be read worldwide and the BBC might be using the same report for domestic and World Service broadcasts. It would cost more to make a special report just for the UK audience.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Every other European country uses Metric, it's about time this one did.

Almost every other country full stop uses metric!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The media seem to like using kms as the numbers seem bigger

Spot on (though I'll bet you 10 shillings one doesn't need the "s" on "kms").
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think we should - it's time we consigned the weird, illogical Imperial weights and measures system to history.

"Take these chains from my heart and set me free"?
And you'll not be offered a dram by me either.

 

[Oswyntail]

I think we should - it's time we consigned the weird, illogical Imperial weights and measures system to history.

"Illogical" in this context tends to mean one doesn't know the historical relations behind them The two systems can happily co-exist - just ask builders - and neither is more logical or exact than the other. The only real difference is that decimal based units are easier to manipulate in a computer.

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm purely in the use metric camp at work, simply because that's what we have used for decades - I do however have to work with imperial units and another odd one called stroke widths, as I design roads and traffic signs as part of my role, so happy for all to co-exist as they are now

 

[ac6000cw]

"Illogical" in this context tends to mean one doesn't know the historical relations behind them

I do know some of the historical reasons behind them. I grew up with/learnt at school pounds, shillings, pence, guineas, tons, hundredweights, stones, ounces, miles, furlongs and chains etc. - that's how I know the metric system is superior. How can a system having 16 ounces to a pound, 14 pounds to a stone, 8 stones to a hundredweight and 20 hundredweights to a ton be logical ? (when we have 10 fingers etc.)

I work in electronic engineering and have to deal with designing with a mixture of components dimensioned in metric and US (pseudo Imperial) measurements - thankfully it's changing slowly in the US to using 'hard' metric dimensions (e.g. spacing connector pins 2.5 mm apart instead of 2.54 mm (0.1")) and not before time....

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I work in electronic engineering...

Perhaps that industry could be persuaded to decide whether to adopt a true metric system (x1000) or the pseudo metric system based on powers of two (x1024) for describing storage capacities. I'm sure it would free up a lot of server space if we could rid the internet of all the "where's all my free space gone?" type questions.

 

[yorkie]

Has anyone noticed how the mile seems to be playing second fiddle to the kilometre when used as a benchmark for distances in a lot of British media outlets?

Not really. If anything it's the other way round, with some oldies in the media continuing to refer to disused imperial measurements (and non-existent counties)

While the mile will be here to stay for a long time (due, principally, to road signage) there aren't many imperial measurements that are familiar to people today. And why should they be?

To me, furlong is simply the name of a member of this forum, or something they mention in those silly horse races. I don't need to know what actual measurement means, and even if I cared, it'd be easier to think of it as ~200metres rather than an eighth (what?!) of a mile.

We've moved on a bit since 1824. Just look at this unit list. Utterly bonkers and archaic.

 

[edwin_m]

Almost every other country full stop uses metric!

With the notable exception of the US - even Canada uses metric.

It has caused problems such as the aircraft that had to make an emergency landing because it was refuelled a certain number of litres instead of gallons, and I believe one of the Mars probes failed because some of the calculations assumed the wrong units.

Even Britain uses metric most of the time, with the exception of speed on the roads and railways, and Network Rail still uses miles and chains or yards for position measurement on most of the network. The driver's display on the Javelin sets changes from km/h to mph when it leaves HS1!

I believe that when routes are converted to ERTMS the speed measurement will all be in km/h.

 

[DownSouth]

Perhaps that industry could be persuaded to decide whether to adopt a true metric system (x1000) or the pseudo metric system based on powers of two (x1024) for describing storage capacities. I'm sure it would free up a lot of server space if we could rid the internet of all the "where's all my free space gone?" type questions.

Apple addressed the 1000/1024 issue by going to 1000 for the purpose of anything presented on screen to the end user.

The ball is in Microsoft's court now. Following Apple's lead would be most sensible, but if they are going to stick with the x1024 system they could at the least have the integrity to issue an update that changes Windows to show the correct kiB/MiB/GiB/TiB labels instead of misleadingly combining *iB quantities with *B labels.

Yes, there are other players in the industry as well as Apple and MS, but once the big two have done it properly everyone else will follow along.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

We've moved on a bit since 1824. Just look at this unit list. Utterly bonkers and archaic.

Now Yorkie, would you really rather have Ariel say

Full metres 9.144 thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade,
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.

 

[starrymarkb]

With the notable exception of the US - even Canada uses metric.

It has caused problems such as the aircraft that had to make an emergency landing because it was refuelled a certain number of litres instead of gallons, and I believe one of the Mars probes failed because some of the calculations assumed the wrong units.

Even Britain uses metric most of the time, with the exception of speed on the roads and railways, and Network Rail still uses miles and chains or yards for position measurement on most of the network. The driver's display on the Javelin sets changes from km/h to mph when it leaves HS1!

I believe that when routes are converted to ERTMS the speed measurement will all be in km/h.

The Gimli Glider? Air Canada were switching to metric and so their new 767s used fuel in KGs, the crews were still used to lbs. The aircraft or tanker had a faulty gauge, so the tanks were checked manually using a dipstick, but they calculated in lbs rather then kg.

NR were given the option of keeping miles for ERTMS by the EU but chose to switch to km

 

[stibz]

Every other European country uses Metric, it's about time this one did.

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing our identity.

 

[Greenback]

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

I'm not in favour of retaining imperial measurements for sentimental or patriotic reasons. I was taught metric over forty years ago, and it is far easier to understand. I am quite happy buying milk in litres, bread in grams and even beer in half litres. If I saw a price in pounds and ounces I'd have to try and mentally convert it to grams and kilos!

 

[MCR247]

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

Why is everything to do with "national identify" and "this is Britain" nowadays?!

 

[DownSouth]

While the mile will be here to stay for a long time (due, principally, to road signage) there aren't many imperial measurements that are familiar to people today. And why should they be?

I'm not so sure that road signage needs to be a major issue.

Australia managed to switch to kilometres without much of an issue on the roads. People were told what the nearest equivalent speed was, and car dealers fitted printed inserts to speedometers for people who needed them.

Printed inserts would work just as well today as they did over forty years ago for cars with analogue speedos, and cars with digital displays would be even simpler to swap over with it just needing a few minutes' work with a laptop connected.

… and I believe one of the Mars probes failed because some of the calculations assumed the wrong units.

I thought that was caused by the contractor paying inadequate attention to the specifications they were to work with, combined with the decline in engineering competency at NASA which peaked during the Apollo program when they had engineers who went through things like that with a fine tooth comb. There would have been plenty of opportunity for the contractor to pick the wrong unit even if the metric system wasn't involved.

Even Britain uses metric most of the time, with the exception of speed on the roads and railways, and Network Rail still uses miles and chains or yards for position measurement on most of the network. The driver's display on the Javelin sets changes from km/h to mph when it leaves HS1!

I believe that when routes are converted to ERTMS the speed measurement will all be in km/h.

I'd be amazed if NR engineering works were not already done completely in metric units, with the imperial units left just for the speeds and distances seen by train drivers and the like. Professional quality works need professional quality measurements and surveys!

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

I think your energy might be better focused upon returning to conventional English spelling than the Imperial system of measurements. The imperial system of measurement was derived from Rome, not Britain, and therefore the metric system is closer (both geographically and culturally) to being a true British system.

 

[gswindale]

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

So, while we're at it; why don't we remove anything from Britain that is "non-British"? Out go your Norman castles. Out go the various Abbeys and Churches.

I guess we may be able to keep Stonehenge.

What's that I hear you say? "They're part of our heritage so they should be kept".

Yes they are, as are the old imperial measurements. That doesn't mean they should be used exclusively.

This country has a long standing tradition of moving with the times and incorporating other cultures into the "British identity". Why are some people so opposed to that continuing?

 

[bb21]

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

Perhaps we should go back to having 240 pence in a pound too by your reckoning. :roll:

 

[SS4]

Examples please.

I cannot say that I've noticed this myself.

Seconded

I would love to see more SI units used with metric being an acceptable substitute although Kelvin may be a bit far for temperature.

On the subject of science in the media is it really that hard to know and use the difference between mass (kg) and weight (N)?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Load of crap, This is Britain, we should be using BRITISH weights & measures, never mind all the foreign rubbish. Why should we change? the likes of America don't change. A mile, a foot, an inch and a pound & pence, gallon, pints. loosing out identity.

Newton, Kelvin, Faraday*, Watt, Joule and Grey all have SI units named after them for their contributions to science and the metric/SI system.



* Faraday is a unit of charge superseded by the Coulomb but there is also the Farad

 

[PermitToTravel]

Even Britain uses metric most of the time, with the exception of speed on the roads and railways, and Network Rail still uses miles and chains or yards for position measurement on most of the network. The driver's display on the Javelin sets changes from km/h to mph when it leaves HS1!

I believe that when routes are converted to ERTMS the speed measurement will all be in km/h.

I think all distances on the London Underground are now in kilometres. Speeds are in km/h on automatic lines, and mph on the rest.

Australia managed to switch to kilometres without much of an issue on the roads. People were told what the nearest equivalent speed was, and car dealers fitted printed inserts to speedometers for people who needed them.

More recently, Ireland switched quite comfortably in 2005.

 

[Mojo]

I think all distances on the London Underground are now in kilometres. Speeds are in km/h on automatic lines, and mph on the rest.

The Northern line (TBTC / automatic) is in mph, and the Waterloo & City (conventional) is in km/h.

 

[Butts]

Examples please.

I cannot say that I've noticed this myself.

On "Coast" they often refer to distances in Kilometres and I was watching a programme about Clouds and Weather the other week when the KM surfaced.
People probably don't notice as it is subtly slipped in

Are there any official plans for the UK to switch ?

Who else still uses miles ? , is the American Mile the same as ours as I know their Gallon is slightly different.

 

[radamfi]

Most imperial measures are different in the US. Distance and weight are exceptions, although the Americans prefer feet to yards and pounds to stones.