First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's good to see that 48 & 49 are 24 hour - how many in Bristol are now 24 hour?

It's also good to see they're doing something with the Trowbridge stuff - makes sense at last!

179/177 & 178 changes are good as well - about time too - the 179 (in my view) should be extended to Writhlington every day and have 2 buses running the service - should be a bit more frequent then.

With the changes in Weston (sorry don't know much about the local stuff) - is anything replacing service 5? Does service 5 have a duplicate service? Why was there no need for it?.

Depends what the T1 looks like? What's the route and frequency?

However, I can only think you've not seen buses in Writhlington. On a Sunday, I've seen two passengers get on once. The rest of the time, nothing. Utter pointlessness! Even through the week, the 768 only gets a handful of people (usually 3 or 4).

Here's a suggestion - extend the 179 from MSN to Frome to replace the 184 (but missing out Chilcompton) so you get a regular two hourly frequency. The 184 from Bath to MSN/Chilcompton can be renumbered 173.

The Weston 5 is duplicated by Crosville 105. Also BoS runs up to Uphill and the hospital.

 

[DaveHarries]

Depends what the T1 looks like? What's the route and frequency?

However, I can only think you've not seen buses in Writhlington. On a Sunday, I've seen two passengers get on once. The rest of the time, nothing. Utter pointlessness! Even through the week, the 768 only gets a handful of people (usually 3 or 4).

Here's a suggestion - extend the 179 from MSN to Frome to replace the 184 (but missing out Chilcompton) so you get a regular two hourly frequency. The 184 from Bath to MSN/Chilcompton can be renumbered 173.

The Weston 5 is duplicated by Crosville 105. Also BoS runs up to Uphill and the hospital.

I am also interested to see that the 48 & 49 going 24-hour operation: presumably the 24/7 operation of the 75 (currently the only 24-hour route in Bristol) has been something of a success although I wouldn't have thought that the 75 takes much on the night journeys on a Sunday night.

A suggestion for the Weston front though: does Oldmixon justify 5 buses per hour on the 7 on Mondays to Saturdays? If it didn't then, as a partial replacement for the 5 (Worle - Uphill), I would:

- Renumber some Service 7 journeys as, say, Service 8. Both routes to operate every 20 miuntes and give a combined 10-minute frequency between Worle Sainsburys and Coronation Estate.

- After Coronation Estate, buses from Worle Sainsburys on Service 7 turn left to serve Oldmixon (Brompton Road area) as at present while those on Service 8 turn right and terminate in the grounds of Uphill Hospital: an extension to Uphill Whatf might be an idea if it ensured breaks were sufficient at the Oldmixon (7) / Uphill (8) ends.

Apologies for deviating from First but, as for Crosville, are the 4 & 4A (Hutton - South Road) still going? I would also have thought that those could be revised. Service 4 to terminate at Hutton while Service 4A to extend to Worle Sainsburys via. Canada Combe, Elborough, Banwell Road, Locking Village and Locking Castle. I am surprsed that Elborough only has 1 bus per week tbh and would have thought a Locking Village - Worle link might be a good idea.

Dave

 

[ValleyLines142]

Don't think Marshall Darts. Most will be gone soon; 4 of the 10 from Wales have gone already.

Really? Where have they gone?

Well at the moment the 70 just seems to get the 427xx range of buses, which aren't exactly an ideal size for such a route.

However, this is all academic on two points. Wher the turning loop is, is irrelevant if NR have precluded First from using deckers on the forecourt. More importantly, you're getting an extra 3 buses per hour. No need for deckers and, as baza585 pointed out, there's few new deckers and lots of new single decks so if they need additional fleet, it'll be single decks as DDs are at a premium.

As Frank Drebin once said "move on, nothing to see here"

Hopefully you're right. I look forward to seeing these routes in practice and whether single deck operation will work.

It's good to see that 48 & 49 are 24 hour - how many in Bristol are now 24 hour?

It is indeed very good, although at the moment the timetables state it is just the 48 that'll be 24 hour and it also only goes to Downend.

With the 48 and 49, there will now be four 24 hour bus routes: the 43, 48, 49 and the 75.

The 2, 39, 40, 70, 73, 76 and the 90 are all close behind, running about 21 hours of the day (0500 - 0200).

I must say, I think the 75/76 is an absolutely fantastic route. I'm so pleased that Bristol has the honour of having these two services. Serving TEN different areas of Bristol (Hengrove, Hartcliffe, Bedminster, City Centre, Montpelier, Horfield, Southmead, Henbury, Filton and Cribbs Causeway), each service runs at least every ten minutes, so when you combine them together they're every five minutes, and to retain such a high frequency when the journey time end to end is close to TWO HOURS is just brilliant. Add in the fact that the 75 at least runs 24 hours (with the 76 not far behind) is excellent. First should be really proud of such a service!

The A1 service drops off at the bottom on its way to the bus station (set down only) and sometimes uses this turning loop to get out, but most of the time is forced to go all the way round. It is impossible to do the turn by the main entrance without part of the bus going under the canopy due to how tight the turn is.

Hence why I suggested using the first turning loop as I thought the canopy doesn't start until the entrance/exit to the car park (i.e. by where the 8/9 stops). However I've seen a City Sightseeing Bus use the main turning loop without any issues, so pending height checks and clearance I don't see the problem. But as GrandWazoo says, with extra services this shouldn't be a problem now and deckers may not be needed, although they would be a nice
addition.

There is also Class33's suggestion of using Temple Quay to turn around instead!

 

[freetoview33]

Last major changes were

September 2013
November 2013
April 2014

With some minor changes in-between Jan/July

 

[Private Baxter]

I don't think Private Baxter was saying that Streetlites would replace B10BLEs. I think he was suggesting that Streetlites could replace the 11 Eclipses that currently work the 173/376.

Also, he is right. The 376 transformed into either a 375 or 377 at Wells. A quick check on Flickr can confirm it.

You might see the W reg B10BLEs move from the 126 to the 377, with Eclipses on the 126. However, you'll not get anything other than the oldest fleet on the 161. It's not exactly lucrative!

Indeed, that is my presumption. When the current 11 eclipses get replaced (possibly towards the end of next year), it's not unreasonable to think some might stay for 377. Who knows thoough. Merely speculation.

I was wrong about 377 though - for a few years, and during the arrival of the 59 reg eclipses, the 377 in fact DID run seperately. The 376 was a half hourly service to Wells, continuing to Street every hour. The one that terminated in Wells became a 375 and went on to Bridgwater. Buses uses on 377 just worked that route all day. However for most of the time, it was like you say alternating between 375 and 377.

I would like to see 54 reg eclipses on the 126 in time (although I'd like to see Wells depot take over the route again as well), and suspect this could happen. First haven't really responded to Webberbus' new route 26. Perhaps it hasn't really had a major impact. The 126 has always been operated using old buses.

And the 161 - Ah, I think it must be First's least cared for routes, and with good reason. There might only be a couple of passengers travelling between Shepton and Frome. (Still, bet it wouldn't stop WB introducing a route 61!! ) First's oldest buses work the route and even when they (46603 and 41144) finally go, they will most likely only be replaced by something marginally younger.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Really? Where have they gone?

Well at the moment the 70 just seems to get the 427xx range of buses, which aren't exactly an ideal size for such a route.

There is also Class33's suggestion of using Temple Quay to turn around instead!

Marshall Darts 41344, 41721 and 41726 are withdrawn whilst 41389 was written off after the accident near Willsbridge. Ousted by MHs new Streetlites allowing cascades of Darts.

For the 70, HE doesn't have much in terms of larger single decks so if no Eclipse spare, an ALX Dart has to suffice. During the day, loadings are light enough so no issue.

Temple Quay - great if you've got luggage. NOT! Suspect your open topper also got a b*llocking for entering the forecourt. Now can we move on; it's been sorted now.

 

[swifty]

It is indeed very good, although at the moment the timetables state it is just the 48 that'll be 24 hour and it also only goes to Downend.

With the 48 and 49, there will now be four 24 hour bus routes: the 43, 48, 49 and the 75.

The 2, 39, 40, 70, 73, 76 and the 90 are all close behind, running about 21 hours of the day (0500 - 0200).

The 48 runs through to The Leap and turns in the old Turing point there before heading back to the Centre. If it carried onto Emersons there wouldn't be an hourly service using one bus which is how the night services are worked.

As for the 43/44 they're not quite a 24 hour service which is quite annoying! There's a 2.5 hour gap between 0400 and the first bus at 0630, I would quite like to see these gain an additional service at 0500 in the future, the 0400 can often carry a fair few! (Although still not enough for a Gemini!)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed, that is my presumption. When the current 11 eclipses get replaced (possibly towards the end of next year), it's not unreasonable to think some might stay for 377. Who knows thoough. Merely speculation.

First haven't really responded to Webberbus' new route 26. Perhaps it hasn't really had a major impact. The 126 has always been operated using old buses.

And the 161 - First's oldest buses work the route and even when they (46603 and 41144) finally go, they will most likely only be replaced by something marginally younger.

The 377 doesn't make enough to pay for 59 plate Eclipses or they'd not have moved 69435-7! It'll get something newer but probably not so modern.

WB have only been operating the 26 for a week so not much chance to have an impact. And yes, my first run on the 126 was in the last days of WS's REs that were all 18+ years old.

The 161 is very lightly loaded from Shepton to Frome. Again, it doesn't justify newer kit really though perhaps some of the older 2003 vintage Solos might head there but more likely.....something a bit newer for X75 and the ALX Darts might have their last days on the 161?

Ps see the last SPDs have now gone

 

[swifty]

Marshall Darts 41344, 41721 and 41726 are withdrawn whilst 41389 was written off after the accident near Willsbridge. Ousted by MHs new Streetlites allowing cascades of Darts.

For the 70, HE doesn't have much in terms of larger single decks so if no Eclipse spare, an ALX Dart has to suffice. During the day, loadings are light enough so no issue.

Temple Quay - great if you've got luggage. NOT! Suspect your open topper also got a b*llocking for entering the forecourt. Now can we move on; it's been sorted now.

The CSS ALX400 always loops up round the top of the forecourt on every journey it operates on Not so much of an issue for the fully open top Olys though!

The 73 used to go into Temple Quay (The Friary?) if you cast your minds back, IIRC there was some sort of issues that saw that section cut back to the Centre?

 

[freetoview33]

To be fair I think the stops will be moved to the Friary again once all the metrobus and temple meads plans come into being

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The CSS ALX400 always loops up round the top of the forecourt on every journey it operates on Not so much of an issue for the fully open top Olys though!

I thought, for some reason, that it looped round past Fowlers. I'll shut up

Still, think we've done this subject comprehensively and well done to First for these new services.

I'm intrigued by the new T1 in Trowbridge; wonder what might happen elsewhere in West Wilts?

Btw interesting to see that Stagecoach took on Hatts Devizes town services. I guess First are a bit short of kit to have helped out. 42109 was working the 37 on Sat so things must be bad!

 

[swifty]

To be fair I think the stops will be moved to the Friary again once all the metrobus and temple meads plans come into being

I've just read up on why the 73 was cut back from the Friary, and unless the issues have changed in the past 7 years I don't think there'll be bus services back in there any time soon.

The road is/was privately owned (the council didn't adopt it) and the owners were demanding maintenance fees from First for the use of the road, so ultimately the service was pulled.

 

[Private Baxter]

The 377 doesn't make enough to pay for 59 plate Eclipses or they'd not have moved 69435-7! It'll get something newer but probably not so modern.

WB have only been operating the 26 for a week so not much chance to have an impact. And yes, my first run on the 126 was in the last days of WS's REs that were all 18+ years old.

The 161 is very lightly loaded from Shepton to Frome. Again, it doesn't justify newer kit really though perhaps some of the older 2003 vintage Solos might head there but more likely.....something a bit newer for X75 and the ALX Darts might have their last days on the 161?

Ps see the last SPDs have now gone

That's what I was thinking for the 161. Those AXL darts would be ideal imo. Then I'd like to see 06/56 reg darts from MH come down for X75/375. Could happen...

Indeed great news about those Bath SPDs. They were awful. All my least favourites all seem to have left at once - I didn't like the B6s either. One thing I can't understand though is why, when they are getting rid of so much of their oldest stuff do they bring in two ancient darts from Hoeford? Esp when they seem to have replaced two 57 reg deckers! Not sure the reasoning for that. Otherwise, Bath is nopw a pretty modern depot, with the oldest bus dating from 1997/8 and a few other bits and pieces from around then, but aside from that most of its oldest stuff is a few Xs and Ys and the 02s.

 

[swifty]

I thought, for some reason, that it looped round past Fowlers. I'll shut up

Still, think we've done this subject comprehensively and well done to First for these new services.

I'm intrigued by the new T1 in Trowbridge; wonder what might happen elsewhere in West Wilts?

Btw interesting to see that Stagecoach took on Hatts Devizes town services. I guess First are a bit short of kit to have helped out. 42109 was working the 37 on Sat so things must be bad!

Here's the T1 timetable; http://www.travelinesw.com/swe/TTB/EFA03__000056e6_TP.pdf

I too thought the same as it's quite away from Swindon, are the out stationing in the area?

On the subject of Wiltshire has anyone seen how the new fare structure is holding up? I've heard stories of mass abandonment of First in favour of Faresaver on routes into Bath?

 

[freetoview33]

I've just read up on why the 73 was cut back from the Friary, and unless the issues have changed in the past 7 years I don't think there'll be bus services back in there any time soon.

The road is/was privately owned (the council didn't adopt it) and the owners were demanding maintenance fees from First for the use of the road, so ultimately the service was pulled.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/new-100m-vision-Bristol-s-Temple-Meads/story-19482490-detail/story.html

As part of the metrobus/temple meads redevelopment plans the bus stops will be relocated to the Friary.

 

[DaveHarries]

The 48 runs through to The Leap and turns in the old Turing point there before heading back to the Centre. If it carried onto Emersons there wouldn't be an hourly service using one bus which is how the night services are worked.

Night journeys on Services 43, 44 & 90 have, I think, a PVR of 1 bus each. However the 40A requires 2 vehicles (trip of 50 minutes each way) and I should think the night journeys on Service 2 require at least 2 buses as well. Not sure as to the night PVR of the 75.

As a passing thought I wonder if night journeys on the 24 (Lockleaze - Ashton Vale only?) and the 51 were ever looked into.

Dave

 

[freetoview33]

It is fantastic to see the night services getting better. The 51 would be a good addition.

 

[ryson357]

Don't know if anyone has seen the new service 70 timetable but it has an additional night bus journey, 0330 from the centre and 0300 from UWE

 

[ValleyLines142]

Marshall Darts 41344, 41721 and 41726 are withdrawn whilst 41389 was written off after the accident near Willsbridge. Ousted by MHs new Streetlites allowing cascades of Darts.

Oh really? Wow!

For the 70, HE doesn't have much in terms of larger single decks so if no Eclipse spare, an ALX Dart has to suffice. During the day, loadings are light enough so no issue.

It's not the capacity as such, it's the fact that they're older buses! And the seats on the V-FAE Darts are absolutely disgusting too; they look deformed!

If we have lovely Streetlites then that'd be cool!

Temple Quay - great if you've got luggage. NOT! Suspect your open topper also got a b*llocking for entering the forecourt.

It wasn't my open topper I thought it was a booked move.

The 48 runs through to The Leap and turns in the old Turing point there before heading back to the Centre. If it carried onto Emersons there wouldn't be an hourly service using one bus which is how the night services are worked.

No I know, I don't think there's the demand for a 24 hour service through Emersons anyway. Is the Sainsburys open 24 hours though?

As for the 43/44 they're not quite a 24 hour service which is quite annoying! There's a 2.5 hour gap between 0400 and the first bus at 0630, I would quite like to see these gain an additional service at 0500 in the future, the 0400 can often carry a fair few! (Although still not enough for a Gemini!)

You're right actually, I've just looked at the timetable. Although First have told a few porkies as they said the 43 was going to be 24 hours! At the moment it's 22!

The CSS ALX400 always loops up round the top of the forecourt on every journey it operates on Not so much of an issue for the fully open top Olys though!

Make the 70 an open topper! That'd be brilliant!

The 73 used to go into Temple Quay (The Friary?) if you cast your minds back, IIRC there was some sort of issues that saw that section cut back to the Centre?

It's a shame it was cut back as I think it'd be quite popular.

I also think the 73 ideally could turn around by Broad Quay in the Centre, not just by Rupert Street. So what the 42/43/44/45 currently do.

Also, why do the Lawrence Hill routes turn by Broad Quay, yet the 48/49 only by Rupert Street? I've always wondered!

Still, think we've done this subject comprehensively and well done to First for these new services.

I am too actually. Now just to introduce Enviro 400s!

I'm joking, of course. This will be really good, especially as they're all taking a different route (i.e. the 72 gooing over to Whiteladies, the 71 going straight down the whole of Gloucester Road, etc), which is good. My friend who is living just off Whiteladies Road will have the shock of her life when I tell her the 15 has been axed! She always complained about how it never turned up (or when it did it was nearly an hour late), so I'll convert her to First!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I had 42738 on the X75 last week and yes, rather tired inside. However, point still stands in that after Eclipses, that's the next largest that HE has.

With the withdrawal of the 5 in Weston, that will get rid of a few more Marshalls and you'd have to say 41144 and 46603 must go from Wells soon. The latter was unexpectedly MOTd in Feb and was then due to go in May. With a fire, and a few RTAs, it seems they've not had the chance to get rid but with new arrivals, they should go.

 

[THarris123]

Well it appears that Wells seem to be coping with all the roadworks. The 376's were all virtually on time and the Street services out of Wells were just about on time. They have two extra buses in the depot from the reduced 376.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I had 42738 on the X75 last week and yes, rather tired inside. However, point still stands in that after Eclipses, that's the next largest that HE has.

Would it not be the Streetlites surely?

With the withdrawal of the 5 in Weston, that will get rid of a few more Marshalls and you'd have to say 41144 and 46603 must go from Wells soon. The latter was unexpectedly MOTd in Feb and was then due to go in May. With a fire, and a few RTAs, it seems they've not had the chance to get rid but with new arrivals, they should go.

41727 is still going, on the 81 today.

On a more positive note, had a journey on my favourite Gemini today on the 73!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would it not be the Streetlites surely?

You're quite right. I thought those were 38 seaters but no, Streetlites are larger.

 

[Class 33]

Just thinking when the 72 is introduced, in the southbound direction in particular it might cause some confusion to passengers boarding at the Western end of Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road to go into town. Many will assume the 72 is like all the other 70's which go straight down Gloucester Road, Cheltenham Road and into town. They may well get a shock when it turns off to Zetland Road and into Redland and through to Whiteladies Road!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just thinking when the 72 is introduced, in the southbound direction in particular it might cause some confusion to passengers boarding at the Western end of Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road to go into town. Many will assume the 72 is like all the other 70's which go straight down Gloucester Road, Cheltenham Road and into town. They may well get a shock when it turns off to Zetland Road and into Redland and through to Whiteladies Road!

Guess they're giving their passengers some credit. After all, the 178 and 179 run from Bath to MSN via markedly different routes

 

[Class 33]

Would be very interesting to see what the 72 is like in the morning peak times, especially on the inaugural day of service on Monday 1st September. People boarding on Gloucester Road heading to work in Broadmead or Centre, then realising the bus is heading the wrong way! I won't be up that early on the first day of my week off though! I'll be getting the 72 from UWE down to the Centre during the afternoon instead. Then some journeys on the 71 and X74.

Really looking forward to the X74. If I was living in the East Filton or North Filton area I'd aim to allways get the X74 instead for my journeys to and from the Centre. Rather than the 73 or 75 and constantly stopping all down/up Gloucester Road! A limited stop journey via the M32, Stapleton and UWE is a far more pleasant journey! If brand new double deckers(Enviro 400's?) are brought in for Bristol next year, then I think the first service they should be put on is the X74(especially if only a few are brought in initally, as the peak vehicle requirement for the X74 is just 3). And maybe even give them a striking new livery for limited stop services. Similar to back in the 1980's when the limited stop X services were branded as City Clippers in a different and very striking livery. https://www.flickr.com/photos/86156...UbP-fm8xQp-4pWU4A-ocL7VH-n59yJy-6J4PYG-4rykVH

Anyone else got any suggestions for limited stop Bristol city services that should be introduced? Chances are I think the X74 will be the only full time(Mondays-Saturdays during most the day) limited stop Bristol city service for the next few years at least. But you never know!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It did cross my mind that you were going to suggest that! I have visions of you watching Brat Pack films on a Betamax VCR, such is your love of the 1980s!!!

Nothing really springs to mind about faster links from the burbs. East side has X49 and other defacto fast links like the 37. Probably speeding the Fornbrees and possibly making the 376 limited stop in so far as first set down is after the Happy Landings.

 

[ValleyLines142]

You're quite right. I thought those were 38 seaters but no, Streetlites are larger.

To be fair the Streetlites aren't actually that great for capacity. I had 47465 on the 8 today towards Clifton at about 6.30pm that was full and standing!

Just thinking when the 72 is introduced, in the southbound direction in particular it might cause some confusion to passengers boarding at the Western end of Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road to go into town. Many will assume the 72 is like all the other 70's which go straight down Gloucester Road, Cheltenham Road and into town. They may well get a shock when it turns off to Zetland Road and into Redland and through to Whiteladies Road!

I imagine it would say 'via Whiteladies Road' as opposed to Cheltenham Road and Stokes Croft. I'd hope, anyway!

Really looking forward to the X74. If I was living in the East Filton or North Filton area I'd aim to allways get the X74 instead for my journeys to and from the Centre. Rather than the 73 or 75 and constantly stopping all down/up Gloucester Road! A limited stop journey via the M32, Stapleton and UWE is a far more pleasant journey!

Same. I did the 73 end to end today and it took an hour and ten minutes (45 minutes from Bradley Stoke!).

Lots of interesting observations in Bristol today. 42961 on the 2 (NOT cool!), 47544 on the 178 (cool!), 66178 on the 1 (NOT cool!), 66732 on the 319 (cool!) and 69451 on the 90 (cool, with three people on board at 5.30pm so send the sodding Gems on the 70!)

Also went to Temple Meads today. NOT THAT IT MATTERS, but just to say the first turning circle could easily be used by deckers as the canopy doesn't start until the stop where the 8/9 depart. The loop wasn't blocked by taxis either.

But as I said earlier with the 71, 72 and X74 (a fast service from UWE to the Centre with FIERCE competition with the 14) then I'm happy!

 

[Stompehh]

Also went to Temple Meads today. NOT THAT IT MATTERS, but just to say the first turning circle could easily be used by deckers as the canopy doesn't start until the stop where the 8/9 depart. The loop wasn't blocked by taxis either.

It may not have been blocked when you were there but it IS pretty much every day, particularly in the morning peak when lots of taxis are arriving but fewer are departing.

 

[Class 33]

Probably speeding the Fornbrees and possibly making the 376 limited stop in so far as first set down is after the Happy Landings.

Yes agree the the Bristol-Thornbury services should be speded up. Limited stop between Bristol Bus Station and Patchway, or between those stops on a pick-up only(Northbound) and set-down only(Southbound) basis. Plus with the new half hourly X74 anyone travelling between Centre and the Filton Church to Patchway stretch of Gloucester Road can now use that service for a faster service to Central Bristol, as well as the slower 75.

Likewise with the 376 between Bristol Bus Station and Happy Landings! Rather than a lot of city users slowing down the journey.

Country services should be speded up really. Not slowed down!