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Closing doors while people are boarding

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SPADTrap

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15 Oct 2012
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There was room on the train but difficult to board. Given another minute and a little encouragement to get people down the aisles and plenty more could have got on. I get the argument that ultimately you have to draw a line.. but if this is the case then it should be dealt with differently.

"I'm sorry this train had to leave before you could all get on, someone will be hanging out forms to claim compensation..." would have been fine.

Your signature says it all! Terrible attitude to the people who pay your wages!

Attack attack attack.

Isn't the problem with the passengers who WON'T move down? Certainly ain't my problem at the front closing the doors if you lot won't move down!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Calm down.. I'm not saying you're a bad person.. just that railway staff don't see the consumer as central to what they do.. they see them as an unfortunate obstacle to moving trains around the country.

People like you are an unfortunate obstacle ...

See, bet you didn't like that eh?
 
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yorkie

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Surely the issue was that the train was inadequate for the task because of a lack of rolling stock.....
Absolutely.
That's the cause of the problem and that's the area that needs to be fixed. Without knowing why half the train was missing we can only speculate. But newer, more reliable rolling stock would surely help.
It's an entirely separate matter to the subject at hand, but new trains are on order. New trains are not always more reliable than old ones. As you say, we don't know why 4 coaches were missing, it could be due to vandalism or displacement of stock, not necessarily a rolling stock reliability issue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your signature says it all! Terrible attitude to the people who pay your wages!
The moment this line is put out, you instantly lose the argument.
Indeed.
 

hassaanhc

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If the short formation is a major issue, wait till you get the new Class 700 trains. Currently the Class 319/377/387 trains can be formed of either 4 or 8 coaches (also 12 in the case of the 377/387 fleet) and if one of the two or three units develops a fault then the train gets short formed, and provides the ability for the depot to mix and match train lengths in case of failures or other circumstances. The new Class 700 trains are fixed 8 or 12 car trains, with no option to form trains in any other numbers of coaches, which could increase chances of cancellations where previously they would have managed to get 4 coaches out. But hey, no more 4 coach trains! :P
 

TimG

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Attack attack attack.

Isn't the problem with the passengers who WON'T move down? Certainly ain't my problem at the front closing the doors if you lot won't move down!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


People like you are an unfortunate obstacle ...

See, bet you didn't like that eh?

I',m the customer and, assuming you work on the railway, you have just proved my point!
 

muz379

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23 Jan 2014
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If the short formation is a major issue, wait till you get the new Class 700 trains. Currently the Class 319/377/387 trains can be formed of either 4 or 8 coaches (also 12 in the case of the 377/387 fleet) and if one of the two or three units develops a fault then the train gets short formed, and provides the ability for the depot to mix and match train lengths in case of failures or other circumstances. The new Class 700 trains are fixed 8 or 12 car trains, with no option to form trains in any other numbers of coaches, which could increase chances of cancellations where previously they would have managed to get 4 coaches out. But hey, no more 4 coach trains! :P

This is the thing , I understand passenger frustration when A service is short formed , but at least there is a train actually running but this seems lost on them when you suggest to them that they are actually lucky the whole train didnt get cancelled .
 

bb21

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I',m the customer and, assuming you work on the railway, you have just proved my point!

There may be some truths in what he said.

Just because you are a customer does not mean all your demands should be met. Doing so is quite likely to cause more potential problems for a large number of other passengers and this has been explained to you over and over again by many others.

I believe it is what we call short-sightedness if put in a kind way, ignoring the bigger picture, selfishness if more abrupt.
 

SPADTrap

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I',m the customer and, assuming you work on the railway, you have just proved my point!

It was sarcasm....

I didn't like your sweeping attacking statement about railway staff! And you didn't like mine about yourself. So don't make them in the first place, neither are true, so let's keep it sensible before you loose your argument any more credibility.

Ah..you're one of the "I pay your wages" school of thought...sigh.
 
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TheEdge

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29 Nov 2012
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Norwich
I',m the customer and, assuming you work on the railway, you have just proved my point!

I suspect you are probably from the same school of though as the bloke who complained how awful the service was and it was appalling he wasn't able to get to Kings Lynn until almost midnight, from Norwich, at 10, on a Sunday night.

You might like to have a look at http://notalwaysright.com/ to see quite how you are coming across...
 

sd0733

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5,186
There are things the railways do get wrong customer service wise, very few staff would ever disagree but this certainly isn't one of them.
At the end of the day operators of a railway have to see a massive picture about delays further on, delaying other trains, missing booked connections, getting the train and crew to a place in time to be prepared for the next journey.

Train A is say 3 mins late from a station due to waiting while 30 people try and get on and it loses its path at a busy junction, its now 10 late, the next big station a train is now in the platform ahead of it, it arrives 12 mins late, 55 people have missed a connection (saying the operator provided bad service). The train arrives at its destination 18 late due to waiting to cross at a busy junction outside and get a platform. 50 people were getting buses from the terminus, all are now on later buses as well as 20 people getting picked up by people who have waited and have had to go and put another parking ticket on the car. The train behind (it's a 15 minute service like fcc) has now caught up the late train and is being delayed itself. The 400 people on that aren't happy at the delay. There are also 300 people waiting for a train back from the terminus which is the same unit after a 20 minute turnaround, they've had to stand on the platform a long time and when the train gets in it needs cleaning but due to the delay the cleaners can't get on as the passengers already are on. The train leaves on time but dirty and full of rubbish and annoyed passengers saying they're paying to travel in a skip.

Train B leaves on time but left 30 passengers behind. 30 passengers are unhappy but 600 are non the wiser and the other 30 are at there destination 15 mins later and got a seat on the following train.

Those sort of delays can and do happen. A slight delay which many people thing insignificant can develop and snowball into a much worse delay.

Which is the worse service the one affecting 30 people or the one from the same situation which affected around 600-700 people. Granted if I was one of the passengers left behind I wouldn't be amused but staff have to make decisions all day, every day based on getting the better option for the majority.
The railway service is a big compromise, and sometimes, unfortunately it means inconveniencing the few to keep the service for the many.
So, yes, as staff we do look after passengers and do things to make their journey better but basically if you're expecting staff to bend over backwards and pander to your every need it simply cannot happen due to the domino effect of holding trains/getting connections to wait but unfortunately passengers do not see this and just seem to think either you can't be bothered or couldn't care less about them.
 
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Bald Rick

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Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,817
If the short formation is a major issue, wait till you get the new Class 700 trains. Currently the Class 319/377/387 trains can be formed of either 4 or 8 coaches (also 12 in the case of the 377/387 fleet) and if one of the two or three units develops a fault then the train gets short formed, and provides the ability for the depot to mix and match train lengths in case of failures or other circumstances. The new Class 700 trains are fixed 8 or 12 car trains, with no option to form trains in any other numbers of coaches, which could increase chances of cancellations where previously they would have managed to get 4 coaches out. But hey, no more 4 coach trains! :P

Indeed, although they are effectively 2 separate units permanently connected, so there are many faults that may just affect one half of the unit, and thus it can continue in operation.
 

TimG

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26 Jul 2014
Messages
131
There are things the railways do get wrong customer service wise, very few staff would ever disagree but this certainly isn't one of them.
At the end of the day operators of a railway have to see a massive picture about delays further on, delaying other trains, missing booked connections, getting the train and crew to a place in time to be prepared for the next journey.

Train A is say 3 mins late from a station due to waiting while 30 people try and get on and it loses its path at a busy junction, its now 10 late, the next big station a train is now in the platform ahead of it, it arrives 12 mins late, 55 people have missed a connection (saying the operator provided bad service). The train arrives at its destination 18 late due to waiting to cross at a busy junction outside and get a platform. 50 people were getting buses from the terminus, all are now on later buses as well as 20 people getting picked up by people who have waited and have had to go and put another parking ticket on the car. The train behind (it's a 15 minute service like fcc) has now caught up the late train and is being delayed itself. The 400 people on that aren't happy at the delay. There are also 300 people waiting for a train back from the terminus which is the same unit after a 20 minute turnaround, they've had to stand on the platform a long time and when the train gets in it needs cleaning but due to the delay the cleaners can't get on as the passengers already are on. The train leaves on time but dirty and full of rubbish and annoyed passengers saying they're paying to travel in a skip.

Train B leaves on time but left 30 passengers behind. 30 passengers are unhappy but 600 are non the wiser and the other 30 are at there destination 15 mins later and got a seat on the following train.

Those sort of delays can and do happen. A slight delay which many people thing insignificant can develop and snowball into a much worse delay.

Which is the worse service the one affecting 30 people or the one from the same situation which affected around 600-700 people. Granted if I was one of the passengers left behind I wouldn't be amused but staff have to make decisions all day, every day based on getting the better option for the majority.
The railway service is a big compromise, and sometimes, unfortunately it means inconveniencing the few to keep the service for the many.

I get this. Maybe another minute really would have lead to a chain reaction..

What I don't get is why the railway companies don't see it as a major cock up that people are unable to board a particular train when they have arrived in good time. The service is not frequent on this route at this time. The next train arrives approx. half an hour later than this one.

I would be happy if they announced that those who could not board could collect full refunds.. they do not do this!

Either let people get on or provide no quibble compensation..
 

bb21

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24,464
I get this. Maybe another minute really would have lead to a chain reaction..

What I don't get is why the railway companies don't see it as a major cock up that people are unable to board a particular train when they have arrived in good time. The service is not frequent on this route at this time. The next train arrives approx. half an hour later than this one.

I would be happy if they announced that those who could not board could collect full refunds.. they do not do this!

Either let people get on or provide no quibble compensation..

There is a no quibble compensation scheme on FCC, provided that you are delayed by 30 minutes or more.

If you are now unable to travel because you missed this train, you can seek a refund on any unused portion of your ticket.

It is not a major cock up that you are left behind. "Sometimes sh*t happens in life," as they say.

This is getting silly so this thread is locked.
 

yorkie

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I get this. Maybe another minute really would have lead to a chain reaction..
Another minute? I can guarantee the train that was held for you would have been put in front!
What I don't get is why the railway companies don't see it as a major cock up that people are unable to board a particular train when they have arrived in good time. The service is not frequent on this route at this time. The next train arrives approx. half an hour later than this one.
Of course they should, but maybe they do. Have you written to them and asked them? If you get a reply, let me know via PM and I can re-open the thread if required. But until there's anything new to add, there's not much point continuing...
I would be happy if they announced that those who could not board could collect full refunds.. they do not do this!

Either let people get on or provide no quibble compensation..
If a passenger chooses not to travel in these circumstances, they are entitled to a refund.

If a passenger is unable to board due to these circumstances, and ends up 30 or more minutes late, then 'no quibble' compensation is offered.

That said, most passengers would not be 30+ minutes late, because there are other journey opportunities with a change at East Croydon.

In the unlikely event of someone who was entitled to compensation being refused it, I'd support them in any claim. But, as that isn't alleged to have happened, it's all hypothetical at this stage.
 
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