Strengthening seaside trains in Summer

[scarby]

Because BR had sidings full of fully depreciated 90mph mark 1s just sat there for when they were needed. Unfortunately then the accountants took over and saw this stock as a liability as it had no booked work but had to be maintained so it was all sent for scrap to save a few quid.

They also had quite a few freight engines that were not needed at weekends to haul them at a minutes notice as well.

Nowadays there is no spare stock and a lot of maintenance takes place at weekends so that the maximum amount of stock is available during the week meaning there is less stock is available. I wont mention the stupid way running trains is costed these days!

Thanks.

 

[455driver]

And any coaches we do have sat in sidings are usually rusted solid and have weeds growing through the floor!

I once had a look inside a rake of mark 1 compos at Laira (with permission) and the dank smell as I entered the carriage didnt preapare me for the sight when I opened a compartment door, you could see all the flees jumping around in there.

It still makes my skin crawl thinking about it.

Oh this was the 'twice a year' stock and not the 'emergency use' stock (which was kept in reasonable order) so would have been fumigated before being used.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Nunnery sidings in Sheffield used to have rakes of coaches sitting there.

 

[455driver]

Nunnery sidings in Sheffield used to have rakes of coaches sitting there.

There were quite a few sidings full to the South of Bristol as well.
Laira had 2 sidings full (2 sidings becide the mainlines).

 

[Manchester77]

I once had a look inside a rake of mark 1 compos at Laira (with permission) and the dank smell as I entered the carriage didnt preapare me for the sight when I opened a compartment door, you could see all the flees jumping around in there.

It still makes my skin crawl thinking about it.

Oh this was the 'twice a year' stock and not the 'emergency use' stock (which was kept in reasonable order) so would have been fumigated before being used.

Sounds lovely! At least they got fumigated guess it's cheaper than keeping them in serviceable condition for a couple of uses per year. What were the emergency stock were they just a few rakes of mark Is or something more substantial?

 

[Pumbaa]

There are always trains in Stockport sidings at the weekend but what you have to remember is that in not being utilised, it pushes back the point at which they *do* need to be maintained in the overall maintenance schedule. So maintenence is a reason not to use them at the weekend.

This is the crux of the reason why trains appear to do nothing at the weekend. In reality, there is often the same level of maintenance going on at weekends or less than during the week, it is simply pushing back the time needed before bringing units in for service.

This is only going to change when the industry accepts (and I say accepts, not realises, because that has already occurred) that the same number of trains are soon going to be required to run the service every single day. For some TOCs and even individual routes within TOCs, Saturdays and Sundays are no longer the 'off' days they used to be. Sunday is the busiest day for long distance travel after Friday.

The solution to this is to invest in overall rolling stock levels to ensure a level of service currently seen on weekdays can be delivered at weekends. If you can't tighten up the maintenance regime, buy more trains. Simple.

Now where did I put that flying pig?

 

[455driver]

Sounds lovely! At least they got fumigated guess it's cheaper than keeping them in serviceable condition for a couple of uses per year. What were the emergency stock were they just a few rakes of mark Is or something more substantial?

It was all mark 1s (this was the late 70s/early 80s), the half decent ones (or emergency ones as i called them above) were suitable for going straight into service with a quick look over, the other coaches were well weary and only used when absolutely necessary IE summer Saturdays and the run up to Christmas, the rest of the times they just sat there gathering dust.

You could normally tell which was which by looking at the coach ends, lets say its a TSO type coach-
Everyday use were TSO(A) on the end
Supplementary coaches were TSO(B) on the end and would normally be limited in daily mileage.
limited use coaches were TSO(C) on the end and should only be used when absolutely necessary.

Some (B)s were used on quite high mileage diagrams despite the above.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The solution to this is to invest in overall rolling stock levels to ensure a level of service currently seen on weekdays can be delivered at weekends. If you can't tighten up the maintenance regime, buy more trains. Simple.

Who is responsible for that though?

 

[Pumbaa]

Who is responsible for that though?

The industry. I don't care who leads it, nor does Joe Public. Joe Public just sees 'the railway' at being crap.

At being specifically general and high level, I was hoping to put across that there is no magic fix while the industry won't accept the need for change.

 

[Bald Rick]

The cororrally is that aside from a few blokes* with more money than they know what to do with, nobody keeps a sports car to take out only on summer weekends when the weather is nice.

Yes it's nice to have, but frankly a luxury.

* oh and SNCF in the 80s and 90s with the TGV-SE fleet

 

[Manchester77]

It was all mark 1s (this was the late 70s/early 80s), the half decent ones (or emergency ones as i called them above) were suitable for going straight into service with a quick look over, the other coaches were well weary and only used when absolutely necessary IE summer Saturdays and the run up to Christmas, the rest of the times they just sat there gathering dust.

You could normally tell which was which by looking at the coach ends, lets say its a TSO type coach-
Everyday use were TSO(A) on the end
Supplementary coaches were TSO(B) on the end and would normally be limited in daily mileage.
limited use coaches were TSO(C) on the end and should only be used when absolutely necessary.

Some (B)s were used on quite high mileage diagrams despite the above.

Thanks all very interesting! Doubt we'd ever have a system like that nowadays though.

 

[Martin_1981]

Holiday 'extras' to seaside towns have diminished considerably in the last 20 years, particularly those to Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Llandudno, Weymouth, Poole, Eastbourne and the Kent seaside towns, many of which have seen holiday extras from many parts of the UK disappear completely. The only seaside towns that seem to have retained additional holiday trains in the last decade or so are those in the West Country, namely Paignton, Penzance and Newquay, all of which still enjoy additional holiday trains from London, Birmingham, the North and Scotland.

 

[samj]

I saw 2 class 142/150 sets paired Up out on the Blackpool South-Colne circuit on Saturday. As well as that there was a 142/156 set paired up on the Blackpool-Liverpool circuit too. Are these frequent occurrences nowadays on Blackpool Saturday workings as in April and May the majority were single pairings?!

 

[Class 170101]

Liverpool Street to Great Yarmouth trains still exist on some summer Saturdays.

 

[richw]

Fgw have been running a HST instead of a 150/153 combination this summer on the Penzance to Plymouth and vice versa all stations stop this summer.
I noticed when I saw the timetable showing it as first class accommodation available, and was trying to work out which 150s they fitted 1st class to. I'm assuming this means the 150s are strengthening branch lines.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

150226/142084 on the Blackpool South-Colne diagram today.

I saw 2 class 142/150 sets paired Up out on the Blackpool South-Colne circuit on Saturday. As well as that there was a 142/156 set paired up on the Blackpool-Liverpool circuit too. Are these frequent occurrences nowadays on Blackpool Saturday workings as in April and May the majority were single pairings?!

I can't speak for the Liverpool services, but all (4 Sat, 3 Sun, I think) Colne-Blackpool South diagrams on weekends are booked four cars, which is a brand new development since the May timetable change. The rear set (in either direction) is only used between Blackpool South and Preston however, as they cannot fit into some platforms between Preston and Colne.

 

[455driver]

The industry. I don't care who leads it, nor does Joe Public. Joe Public just sees 'the railway' at being crap.

At being specifically general and high level, I was hoping to put across that there is no magic fix while the industry won't accept the need for change.

Is it really?
And there was me thinking it was the Government through the DaFT!

 

[bb21]

Now someone please tell me why the tour de France trains couldn't occur every weekend. I guess maintenance is one such issue. You can forget maintenance for one weekend but not every weekend.

It's all down to money. As someone alluded to earlier, it is hugely expensive to hire in stock like that, with no guaranteed return on this "investment". On a one-off basis this is possible, and was possibly underwritten by an external party, but this is unlikely to be affordable in the long run.

I'm sure that if the government were willing to fund additional rolling stock or cover the additional costs of hiring trains in for the summer season, the TOCs would only be too happy to oblige, but I guess we will also hear people moaning about money wasted on trains that do nothing for the majority of the time. There is simply no ideal solution for this problem.

Holiday 'extras' to seaside towns have diminished considerably in the last 20 years, particularly those to Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Llandudno, Weymouth, Poole, Eastbourne and the Kent seaside towns, many of which have seen holiday extras from many parts of the UK disappear completely. The only seaside towns that seem to have retained additional holiday trains in the last decade or so are those in the West Country, namely Paignton, Penzance and Newquay, all of which still enjoy additional holiday trains from London, Birmingham, the North and Scotland.

There are still a few others dotted around the country. Someone mentioned the Great Yarmouth drags, and EMT have a Saturday special to Scarborough in the summer. Various services are strengthened at weekends too, such as FGW deploying an HST on the Weymouth runs this year. EMT do the same with Skegness, and Northern put additional coaches on the Scarborough / Bridlington runs.

Indeed seeing departure boards at Leicester showing Scarborough on a Saturday morning is what reminds me that summer is here each year.

 

[Qwerty133]

- Can we even get same traction to operate in different areas? Ie. No point saying, 'oh look, we can use a few 159s to strengthen our trains to Great Yarmouth

No reason why not in theory, GA are cleared on 158s for the EMT hire in, and I believe 158-159 conversion only requires paperwork. Whether it would ever happen in practice is a completely different matter.

 

[Martin_1981]

Indeed seeing departure boards at Leicester showing Scarborough on a Saturday morning is what reminds me that summer is here each year.

That is the only holiday extra that goes through Leicester these days. You can't even get a direct train from Leicester to Skeggy any more-even on a summer Saturday! Direct trains from Leicester to Gt Yarmouth ceased around 1997 I believe, and Paignton around 1991/92.

 

[CC 72100]

Fgw have been running a HST instead of a 150/153 combination this summer on the Penzance to Plymouth and vice versa all stations stop this summer.
I noticed when I saw the timetable showing it as first class accommodation available, and was trying to work out which 150s they fitted 1st class to. I'm assuming this means the 150s are strengthening branch lines.

Indeed - I imagine it's more so the unit that it's in demand than a desperate need to provide more capacity on the PLY - PNZ stopper...

... However, having done a few full + standing DMU services on the line, I know that the extra capacity will be more than appreciated.

 

[Martin_1981]

Indeed - I imagine it's more so the unit that it's in demand than a desperate need to provide more capacity on the PLY - PNZ stopper...

... However, having done a few full + standing DMU services on the line, I know that the extra capacity will be more than appreciated.

I can relate to that. I have often caught the 12:44 Plymouth-Penzance service outside the summer season and the service is often wedged between Plymouth and St Austell. Always a 2 car 150.

 

[CC 72100]

I can relate to that. I have often caught the 12:44 Plymouth-Penzance service outside the summer season and the service is often wedged between Plymouth and St Austell. Always a 2 car 150.

But don't forget, we often read on here about how trains in Cornwall cart fresh air around, and how Plymouth - Penzance ex-London trains will be fine as 5 coach units or Meridians...

On the last Penzance - Pad I was on, a man was being given a lecture about not having both portions of his Advance ticket. The guard said "Its ok now, but when it was really busy earlier before Plymouth.... "

 

[Parallel]

FGW has strengthened a fair few Weymouth trains to 5 carriages now, saw a 158+150/2+153 working the return to Temple Meads today, though it tends to be what they have spare, e.g. 150/1+150/2+153 or 3 car 158+150 etc.

 

[BelleIsle]

The Blackpool South line has been suffering this year. Strengthening to 4 cars at weekends has been a a big positive. Usually 142/150 or 142/156 but occasionally 142/142. However, there are a few additional things that could be done to ease matters:

• Sometimes when traffic is down (e.g. poor weather) the rear unit is locked out of use to help train management. e.g. revenue protection. When traffic picks up there seems to be little urgency to unlock the rear unit. Having people standing with one unit empty is not good. This is West of Preston before anyone mentions the short platforms in East Lancs.
• Using the long line PA to announce trains with only the front unit in use would help to decrease dwell times. Delays due to passengers trying to get into a locked rear unit then having to amble down the platform to the front are not helpful on a single line with tight turnarounds.
• A few more on train announcements would be very helpful. If pushchairs were folded, bags taken off seats, children sat on laps etc. there would be a lot more space. Lots and lots of pushchairs at weekends.
• Using the dry trains legislation might help with the less helpful but more lubricated members of the public.
• Better information as to where Blackpool actually is would help. As soon as you hit the curve before Boundary Road in Lytham and you get the first sight of the estuary you get people thinking "we're there". This can lead to people surging for the doors at each stop all the way to the Pleasure Beach.
• Blackpool is busy at times outside of the summer. I hope this new initiative is extended to cover both the lights and Spring. Easter, bank holidays and days when 'Pool are playing at home all need to be addressed. Blackpool is a favourite destination for away fans and this can add significantly to the numbers.
• The Pleasure Beach should contribute to putting someone on the platform at weekends for crowd control and RP duties.

Rant over

 

[VisualAcid]

The summer Saturday HST to Weymouth is the only way I can convince people to go there from Bath, because they don't fancy 2+ hours on a two carriage tin. Seems very successful and is well used in this case!

 

[Dunc108]

The Blackpool South line has been suffering this year. Strengthening to 4 cars at weekends has been a a big positive. Usually 142/150 or 142/156 but occasionally 142/142. However, there are a few additional things that could be done to ease matters:

• Sometimes when traffic is down (e.g. poor weather) the rear unit is locked out of use to help train management. e.g. revenue protection. When traffic picks up there seems to be little urgency to unlock the rear unit. Having people standing with one unit empty is not good. This is West of Preston before anyone mentions the short platforms in East Lancs.
• Using the long line PA to announce trains with only the front unit in use would help to decrease dwell times. Delays due to passengers trying to get into a locked rear unit then having to amble down the platform to the front are not helpful on a single line with tight turnarounds.
• A few more on train announcements would be very helpful. If pushchairs were folded, bags taken off seats, children sat on laps etc. there would be a lot more space. Lots and lots of pushchairs at weekends.
• Using the dry trains legislation might help with the less helpful but more lubricated members of the public.
• Better information as to where Blackpool actually is would help. As soon as you hit the curve before Boundary Road in Lytham and you get the first sight of the estuary you get people thinking "we're there". This can lead to people surging for the doors at each stop all the way to the Pleasure Beach.
• Blackpool is busy at times outside of the summer. I hope this new initiative is extended to cover both the lights and Spring. Easter, bank holidays and days when 'Pool are playing at home all need to be addressed. Blackpool is a favourite destination for away fans and this can add significantly to the numbers.
• The Pleasure Beach should contribute to putting someone on the platform at weekends for crowd control and RP duties.

Rant over

A shame they can't install a loop at Lytham or St Annes and increase frequency to half-hourly to Blackpool South. Perhaps if there was one through train an hour from Manchester that might help also?

 

[D6975]

FGW has strengthened a fair few Weymouth trains to 5 carriages now, saw a 158+150/2+153 working the return to Temple Meads today, though it tends to be what they have spare, e.g. 150/1+150/2+153 or 3 car 158+150 etc.

The 17:30 off Weymouth in the Summer (weekdays) is a very busy service. Trains back to Bristol leave at:
15:08
17:30
20:21

The first is too early to come home, the third too late for anyone with young children.
So the 17:30 is the one most people come home on.
Years ago the loco hauled set used to be the 17 : xx off Weymouth and there was a sprinter at 18 : xx as well. The big gap between the 17:30 and 20:21 really shouldn't even have been contemplated.

 

[159jim]

Doesn't Bournemouth get shuttles to/from Southampton not only during special events but during hot days?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Doesn't Bournemouth get shuttles to/from Southampton not only during special events but during hot days?

Is there any paths for that to even happen?

 

[159jim]

Is there any paths for that to even happen?

I'm not sure, but I swear I've seen shuttles happening during a heatwave June last year.

There are shuttles on the Saturday of the Bournemouth Air Festivals in the afternoon.

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