First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[freetoview33]

Looks like Wessex are trying to up the U.W.E services too! With buses running later mainly the 13 and 14. And Wessex actually have now got someone for customer services complaints for the Bristol Area!

 

[swifty]

---------

Interesting observation about the timetables in the evenings after 6:30pm too for the 71, 73, and X74 from the Centre(though last X74 departs at 2005 as mentioned). They all depart at xx:05 and xx:35! So the 71 and 73 will be literally running at the same time all up Gloucester Road, along Filton Avenue and as far as Filton McDonalds. At these particular times I imagine most people travelling to Bradley Stoke would board the faster X74 rather than the 73. So the loadings on the 73 at these times will be a little lighter than what they are now.

So 3 services all leave the same stop at the same time and are timetabled to arrive at Filton McDonalds within 5 minutes of each other! The X74 is only 4 minutes quicker to McDonalds albeit going eastbound not west.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the overall increase in PVR is correct, but I think 70/71 will be 12 and 72 will be 5. Not sure though. This, I think will be an overall increase of 9 buses (from 22 to 31 as above). So if we get the intended Streetlites (47551-47572) for Hengrove, the Marshalls should still go!

47551-8 are at MH in Express Yourself livery for the X2/3, they should see some ADL Pointers cascaded in some way.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Had a go at establishing the PVR now and in future. Apologies if it might be a little out but here we go...

• 70 - 7 Single Decks (usually Eclipses) from HE
• 73 - 11 Double Decks (usually Geminis) from LH
• 20 - 4 Single Decks (usually Darts) from HE

The new requirement is....

• 70/71 - 13 Single Decks from HE
• 73 - 11 Double Decks from LH
• 72 - 4
• X74 - 3

So that makes an increase from 22 to 31

You could crudely say that the 72 is a swap for the 20, so 4 x SD from HE? The X74 is perhaps a bit trickier but assuming that it's a new route, you might just see some of the 2006 Darts on there, at least at the beginning? Who knows?

What we probably do know is that the 70/71 will be single deckers. Aside from the canopy issue, the increase in capacity negates the need for deckers. Note that the PVR is 13 and HE is getting 13 new Streetlites - mind you, that could almost be too perfect!!

I'm with baza585 - I can't see who'll be wanting to release decent deckers. Even Taunton has had to deal with getting hammered W reg Tridents. Fine in the flatlands but not in Bristol, and again, there are a number of areas that are looking for newer deckers to replace their ageing Olympians. Given the fact that singles appear on the 1 and 2 semi regularly, I can't see deckers appearing on these new routes, if any route might then it could be the X74!!

How do you know the 70 will continue to be single deckers? There physically isn't enough for the 70/71/73/X74.

Unless those awful 427xx buses appear on the route but that'd be tragic!

Looks like Wessex are trying to up the U.W.E services too! With buses running later mainly the 13 and 14. And Wessex actually have now got someone for customer services complaints for the Bristol Area!

The 14 could do with an extra few services, as well as the 13. But even then it still doesn't make a difference as such!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How do you know the 70 will continue to be single deckers? There physically isn't enough for the 70/71/73/X74.

Because there aren't enough deckers either and the canopy at Temple Meads still precludes their use

 

[THarris123]

I thought the Streetlites were 47551-8 (MH) and 47559-71 (HE)?

I don't know if the 5 and 36 will lose their current kit; they tend to be home for the oldest fleet. This time last year, they still had step Darts!!

Your partially right on the 5 and 36 - the 36 is bound to keep those W reg B6's. The 5 - I think this will receive Streetlites. Of what I've seen, it's mainly the R reg darts and B6's on there, so I suspect they will go to there.

On the Streetlites front, what happens to 47572? I noticed today in Portsmouth they have 47573, but no flickr pictures of 47572. Therefore I assume that all Streetlites 47551-47572 are going to Bristol - and you're probably right about the depot.

If the 70 is being interworked with 71 - then it means the Eclipses will move on (Bath? Wells?) and almost undoubtly end up with Streetlites (I can't imagine a dart going up to Ashley Down).

However, I've just thought of something else - what happens if the 70/71 all needs the 59 plate Eclipses? Wells will lose them and end up with Streetlites for 376 no doubt. Anything could happen - I'd like to think that 70/71 will end up with Streetlites and the Eclipses will move to Wells and Bath.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because there aren't enough deckers either and the canopy at Temple Meads still precludes their use

My answer precisely! First have already told us that any leftover deckers will be used for 50/51 (and half of that appears to be Streetlites at the moment), therefore meaning there is a shortage of Deckers already.

What I expect to see eventually:-
70/71 - Streetlites
72 - R reg Darts/B6's
73 - Deckers
X74 - could be anything leftover!

It's ashame, because I would like to see Deckers on 70 as well - but it's definitely not going to happen now they've increased the frequency.

 

[freetoview33]

Anyone care to speculate on the next major changes after these in August? Any wild suggestions you never know First might just do it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have an idea redirect the 501/502 along wellington hill west then along Gloucester Road into the dorian road entrance of Southmead hospital then on with the route towards Parkway. To make up for the loss of the 20.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Your partially right on the 5 and 36 - the 36 is bound to keep those W reg B6's. The 5 - I think this will receive Streetlites. Of what I've seen, it's mainly the R reg darts and B6's on there, so I suspect they will go to there.

On the Streetlites front, what happens to 47572? I noticed today in Portsmouth they have 47573, but no flickr pictures of 47572. Therefore I assume that all Streetlites 47551-47572 are going to Bristol - and you're probably right about the depot.

If the 70 is being interworked with 71 - then it means the Eclipses will move on (Bath? Wells?) and almost undoubtly end up with Streetlites (I can't imagine a dart going up to Ashley Down).

However, I've just thought of something else - what happens if the 70/71 all needs the 59 plate Eclipses? Wells will lose them and end up with Streetlites for 376 no doubt. Anything could happen - I'd like to think that 70/71 will end up with Streetlites and the Eclipses will move to Wells and Bath.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


My answer precisely! First have already told us that any leftover deckers will be used for 50/51 (and half of that appears to be Streetlites at the moment), therefore meaning there is a shortage of Deckers already.

What I expect to see eventually:-
70/71 - Streetlites
72 - R reg Darts/B6's
73 - Deckers
X74 - could be anything leftover!

It's ashame, because I would like to see Deckers on 70 as well - but it's definitely not going to happen now they've increased the frequency.

47572 is a bit of a mystery. Not listed anywhere so might appear in Brizzle.

I don't see deckers on the 70. No need with the frequency and capacity increase but then there's also the TM canopy. The 5 is not so lucrative so expect it to be older Darts (427**) or B6LEs

Think the Wells Eclipses will stay on 376 for a while. If, repeat if, the 70/71 were to receive Streetlites, then you might see those Eclipses head to MH or Bath. However, that's heinous speculation so let's wait for a few weeks!

 

[Martin1988]

For anyone interested, for the last few days the 46 between Bristol and Yate has been run by darts in livery for the X2/X3 Portishead route. This has been the result of new streetlites entering service on the X2/X3. The X9 was also being worked by one of the new streetlites on Wednesday evening and other journeys on the X8-X10 seem to have had the older darts.

Is it likely that these darts will, in time have the Portishead route branding removed and be repainted into First livery? They do look a bit out of place in areas like Yate.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For anyone interested, for the last few days the 46 between Bristol and Yate has been run by darts in livery for the X2/X3 Portishead route. This has been the result of new streetlites entering service on the X2/X3. The X9 was also being worked by one of the new streetlites on Wednesday evening and other journeys on the X8-X10 seem to have had the older darts.

Is it likely that these darts will, in time have the Portishead route branding removed and be repainted into First livery? They do look a bit out of place in areas like Yate.

The logical place would be the X8 or X9 for them, if only in terms of livery as part of the TravelWest/NSC initiatives. Keep the livery, just lose the route branding!

 

[Class 33]

Whilst I would have liked to seen the 70 upgraded back to double deckers again, this allmost certainly will not be happening for the time being at least. With the 70 getting a sister service, the 71 from 1st September single deckers should then be sufficent enough really. My suggestion was either for the 70 to goto double deckers, or introduce a sister service 70A or 71. The latter will now be happening. Though my suggestion would have been for the other service to also run from the Centre via Ashley Down but then go onto another destination such as Lockleaze, Filton Church, or Bradley Stoke. However with the 70 and 71 both running via Filton Avenue and through to UWE, this will help ease passenger volumes on the 70. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Filton Avenue can get the 70, 71 or 73(and for those travelling to a certain area of Filton around the Filton McDonalds, Station Road and the eastern end of Filton Avenue area will also be able to get the X74 as well!). And those travelling travelling between Centre and UWE only can get the 70, 71, or the fast non-stop X74. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Ashley Down, and UWE through to Filton Avenue and Ashley Down can get the 70. Only thing is though on Sundays and Bank Holidays the 71 will not run, so it will just be the 70 running every half hour. And at times on these days the single deckers can get over-crowded. So would have liked to saw the 70 being double decker operation on these days and doing away with the Centre-Temple Meads part of the route to avoid the Temple Meads canopy issue(and there's still arguement as to why the 70 couldn't just terminate at Temple Quay or Temple Gate instead).

HOWEVER, overall I'm very pleased with First Bristol improving the 70 by introducing a new sister service 71. Along with the new X74 limited stop service to Bradley Stoke. I'm looking forward to it becoming a reality on 1st September!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whilst I would have liked to seen the 70 upgraded back to double deckers again, this allmost certainly will not be happening for the time being at least. With the 70 getting a sister service, the 71 from 1st September single deckers should then be sufficent enough really. My suggestion was either for the 70 to goto double deckers, or introduce a sister service 70A or 71. The latter will now be happening. Though my suggestion would have been for the other service to also run from the Centre via Ashley Down but then go onto another destination such as Lockleaze, Filton Church, or Bradley Stoke. However with the 70 and 71 both running via Filton Avenue and through to UWE, this will help ease passenger volumes on the 70. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Filton Avenue and through to UWE can get the 70 or 71. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Ashley Down, and UWE through to Filton Avenue and Ashley Down can get the 70. Only thing is though on Sundays and Bank Holidays the 71 will not run, so it will just be the 70 running every half hour. And at times on these days the single deckers can get over-crowded. So would have liked to saw the 70 being double decker operation on these days and doing away with the Centre-Temple Meads part of the route to avoid the Temple Meads canopy issue(and there's still arguement as to why the 70 couldn't just terminate at Temple Quay or Temple Gate instead).

HOWEVER, overall I'm very pleased with First Bristol improving the 70 by introducing a new sister service 71. I'm looking forward to it becoming a reality on 1st September!

I would guess that First are thinking that rail passengers may have luggage etc so don't want to terminate short but actually get as close to the station entrance as possible.

As for Sundays, it can get busy (as do all routes) when it's a Mayoral special Sunday or the Harbour Festival. Other times, from my observations, you're lucky to get a half full Eclipse.

Trouble is that the 70 timings fit nicely with 3 vehicles. Up it to every 20 mins and you need not one but two extra vehicles which sort of kills it. If they could get it to interwork with something and only require one extra vehicle, then that might work

Anyway, let's not get too carried away with speculation and see what September brings

 

[windnoise69]

Was in Taunton Earlier and saw a B6 in the later version of First livery... What vechile is this and is this one from Plumouth?

 

[Private Baxter]

Think the Wells Eclipses will stay on 376 for a while. If, repeat if, the 70/71 were to receive Streetlites, then you might see those Eclipses head to MH or Bath. However, that's heinous speculation so let's wait for a few weeks!

I agree, I think it will be towards the end of next year, or perhaps early 2016 when Wells eclipses are replaced by streetlites. As for those at HE, I personally don't think that they are suited to city routes and have thought perhaps that there time on the 70 might be limited. But we must see. If so, the eight eclipses at HE could, as you say, go on to MH, though unlikely, or hopefully BH, replacing what though, I'm not sure.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Was in Taunton Earlier and saw a B6 in the later version of First livery... What vechile is this and is this one from Plumouth?

Probably ex Plymouth 40586

 

[THarris123]

I agree, I think it will be towards the end of next year, or perhaps early 2016 when Wells eclipses are replaced by streetlites. As for those at HE, I personally don't think that they are suited to city routes and have thought perhaps that there time on the 70 might be limited. But we must see. If so, the eight eclipses at HE could, as you say, go on to MH, though unlikely, or hopefully BH, replacing what though, I'm not sure.

I think you're right about the stuff on the 376. If I was going to make a guess, I would say that Streetlites will end up on 70/71 and the Eclipse buses would go to Bath for 37,38 & 178/379. They could even go back to Wells for the 377 (remember that originally 69435/6/7 were on the 377). I can't see 69457/8 and 66728/9 staying in MH. I'm really not keen on the 376 having Streetlites - the 47* and 55* ranges are too small for the service and the 63* (Streetlite Max) are (in my view) not suited at all to the 376 (uncomfortable seating, very little luggage space, etc.). I won't mind a Streetlite on there, as long as it has the same sort of features as the 59 plate Eclipses (with extra windows to open!).

 

[Class 33]

Whilst I would have liked to seen the 70 upgraded back to double deckers again, this allmost certainly will not be happening for the time being at least. With the 70 getting a sister service, the 71 from 1st September single deckers should then be sufficent enough really. My suggestion was either for the 70 to goto double deckers, or introduce a sister service 70A or 71. The latter will now be happening. Though my suggestion would have been for the other service to also run from the Centre via Ashley Down but then go onto another destination such as Lockleaze, Filton Church, or Bradley Stoke. However with the 70 and 71 both running via Filton Avenue and through to UWE, this will help ease passenger volumes on the 70. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Filton Avenue can get the 70 or 71 and 73(and for those travelling to a certain area of Filton around the Filton McDonalds, Station Road and the eastern end of Filton Avenue will also be able to get the X74 as well!). And those travelling travelling between Centre and UWE only can get the 70, 71, or the fast non-stop X74. Anyone travelling between the Centre and Ashley Down, and UWE through to Filton Avenue and Ashley Down can get the 70. Only thing is though on Sundays and Bank Holidays the 71 will not run, so it will just be the 70 running every half hour. And at times on these days the single deckers can get over-crowded. So would have liked to saw the 70 being double decker operation on these days and doing away with the Centre-Temple Meads part of the route to avoid the Temple Meads canopy issue(and there's still arguement as to why the 70 couldn't just terminate at Temple Quay or Temple Gate instead).

Oh and I forgot to mention the 72 too. Those travelling between UWE and the western end of Filton Avenue and all down Gloucester Road can get this service too as well as the 70 and 71. So this again will help ease some passenger volumes on the 70 and 71 too.

All good in my opinion!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Because there aren't enough deckers either and the canopy at Temple Meads still precludes their use

I saw a Gemini two weeks ago in Temple Meads.

But if there is now the 71 and 72 then I agree with Class 33. But then again you never know!

47441 was on the 75 on Tuesday, seen travelling along Gloucester Road at about 3.30pm, just after The Arches (by Costa/Sainsbury's). 47444 was also on the 90, seen by The Haymarket.

The 41 was also in the hands of 69457 and 69458, haven't seen these on the route for ages!

 

[Class 33]

Even though I'm thrilled to bits about these brand new services in the 70 series ranges soon to be starting, I can't help feel a bit sad and a little sorry for the 20 being axed and those people it will effect. Appears First are not introducing a new replacement service of any sort yet. So I wonder if Wessex will introduce a new service to cover all or part of the route? If not then what about all the bus stops along such roads as Charlton Road, Wellington Hill West, Kings Drive, and Clare Avenue(all bus stops/roads which no other services currently serve). Do all these bus stops have the live departures board LCD screens? Will all these bus stops remain intact for now or will they soon all be removed? When the 77 was axed back in 2009 the four bus stops located at the lower end of Pen Park Road were soon removed and no other services covering that section have since been introduced(though in fairness people living along there only have a fairly short walk to get a 76 or other services instead, so it's not a massive loss and incovenience to them).

We'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.....

 

[DaveHarries]

I can't help feel a bit sad and a little sorry for the 20 being axed and those people it will effect. Appears First are not introducing a new replacement service of any sort yet. So I wonder if Wessex will introduce a new service to cover all or part of the route? If not then what about all the bus stops along such roads as Charlton Road, Wellington Hill West, Kings Drive, and Clare Avenue(all bus stops/roads which no other services currently serve.

I can think of a few people I know who are users of the 15 & 20 routes, one of whom uses the 20 to get to the BRI. She is none too happy about the 20's impending abolition.

I would like to think that Wessex might come up with a replacement of some description as a cancellation did, IIRC, appear for the 15. I can't see them getting the Scanias currently employed on the 15 around Kings Drive and Bishop Road though and it seems odd that, not long after the Kings Drive / Bishop Road section was reintroduced, the route gets taken off!

As Class33 says we will have to wait and see.

Dave

 

[winston270twm]

Even though I'm thrilled to bits about these brand new services in the 70 series ranges soon to be starting, I can't help feel a bit sad and a little sorry for the 20 being axed and those people it will effect. Appears First are not introducing a new replacement service of any sort yet. So I wonder if Wessex will introduce a new service to cover all or part of the route? If not then what about all the bus stops along such roads as Charlton Road, Wellington Hill West, Kings Drive, and Clare Avenue(all bus stops/roads which no other services currently serve). Do all these bus stops have the live departures board LCD screens? Will all these bus stops remain intact for now or will they soon all be removed? When the 77 was axed back in 2009 the four bus stops located at the lower end of Pen Park Road were soon removed and no other services covering that section have since been introduced(though in fairness people living along there only have a fairly short walk to get a 76 or other services instead, so it's not a massive loss and incovenience to them).

We'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.....

If you look at the response to customer feedback posted on Wessex website yesterday, the paragraph below suggests that Wessex may also be looking to expand their services:

http://www.wessexbus.com/news/BusServicestoUWECampuses_245.html

You asked us to consider “the scope of the service”:
We are continually looking to improve the services we offer throughout Bristol and the links to UWE. We are in the stages of planning further routes and if trials and discussions are successful we will announce more routes as they become viable. We would welcome your thoughts on potential increases to our network of routes; please e-mail comments@wessexbus.com and let us know what you would like to see us provide and we will spend time looking into those areas or routes.

 

[henairs]

Hi All,
Thanks for info on the above vehicle. She was indeed on the 7 in Weston today so I managed to get a photo but was unlucky to be deprived a run on her due to her being late arriving at Oldmixon with the following service right behind.
Therefore she went MT back I assume to Regent Street to take up her appointed timing point there.
Luckily the next vehicle again, after 66725, was E400 33413 so had a run back to Regent Street with that.
Cheers, Mike Russell [henairs]

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hi All,
Thanks for info on the above vehicle. She was indeed on the 7 in Weston today so I managed to get a photo but was unlucky to be deprived a run on her due to her being late arriving at Oldmixon with the following service right behind.
Therefore she went MT back I assume to Regent Street to take up her appointed timing point there.
Luckily the next vehicle again, after 66725, was E400 33413 so had a run back to Regent Street with that.
Cheers, Mike Russell [henairs]

33413 was on the 7? Wow, that's amazing!

 

[freetoview33]

I think the Wessex thing is more on about U.W.E service and maybe the new routes like the 12C that are coming in September.

No stops on the 20 route (bar about 1) are little more than just a post in the ground, no shelters or real time info.

There are parts of the route that are fairly well covered. Charlton Road - Westbury is covered by the 508 (admittedly not serving greystoke ave)

Maybe the 508 could be amended so from Charlton Road it could carry on back down to Arnside Ave to still provide a link (Maybe more long winded)

Westbury - Henleaze lake is well served by 18/501/502.

I would personally redirect the 501/502 along Wellington Hill West then into Dorian Road entrance of Southmead (So a link is still provided to Westbury Village)

Wellington Hill West is served by the 15/505.

Kellaway ave is served by the 505.

The 505 could be redirected to serve Claire Ave ect.

Cranbrook Road is/will be served by the 72.

Cotham is served by the 8/9.

It does leave a few gaps admittedly but it's not the end of the world, Other than the BRI which is rather cut off!

 

[Colly405]

I think the Wessex thing is more on about U.W.E service and maybe the new routes like the 12C that are coming in September.

No stops on the 20 route (bar about 1) are little more than just a post in the ground, no shelters or real time info.

There are parts of the route that are fairly well covered. Charlton Road - Westbury is covered by the 508 (admittedly not serving greystoke ave)

Maybe the 508 could be amended so from Charlton Road it could carry on back down to Arnside Ave to still provide a link (Maybe more long winded)

Westbury - Henleaze lake is well served by 18/501/502.

I would personally redirect the 501/502 along Wellington Hill West then into Dorian Road entrance of Southmead (So a link is still provided to Westbury Village)

Wellington Hill West is served by the 15/505.

Kellaway ave is served by the 505.

The 505 could be redirected to serve Claire Ave ect.

Cranbrook Road is/will be served by the 72.

Cotham is served by the 8/9.

It does leave a few gaps admittedly but it's not the end of the world, Other than the BRI which is rather cut off!

But don't forget that the west end of Greystoke is only served by the 20. Interesting though that the 501/502 were rerouted already via the Ring Road because of the changes to the 18, so a further change via Wellington Hill West might not be a problem, as long as they still go up the top end of Southmead Rd.
But what about the 15? I can't find it anywhere on the post-31/8 Traveline timetables...

 

[freetoview33]

I think there are still a few services which are not yet on traveline so will have to wait and see. I can't see the 15 being totally axed as it is a busy route. Yes the 15A has been axed and partly replaced by the new 901 Portway P&R - Clifton route.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Is this the 15 as in Wessex Red's 15? If they axe that then that'll be a massive problem as quite a few UWE students live in the Clifton/Whiteladies area!

 

[freetoview33]

Yes! But I know the 15A has been axed.

 

[swifty]

Is this the 15 as in Wessex Red's 15? If they axe that then that'll be a massive problem as quite a few UWE students live in the Clifton/Whiteladies area!

Looks to be replaced by the 72 as far as Waitrose where it then heads back down Cranbrook Road. So a small part of Henleaze looses the link to UWE.

 

[freetoview33]

But I doubt the 72 is instead of, more like as well as.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
from Bristol Uni website

"*It is with regret, but the 'Wessex Red' Network has undergone some significant changes and therefore will no longer be operating as 'Wessex Red' from September 2014. "

I'd guess that it will just all come under Wessex Bristol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And by the looks of it Wessex are either A) Cutting a lot or B) Still a few more registrations to trickle through.

From what I can tell the Wessex network will be at least the following

12C U.W.E - Lockleaze - Broadmead (Every 20 mins) (Until the 14th September)
12: U.W.E - Lockleaze - Broadmead - Bower Ashton (Every 15 mins) (From 15th September)
13: U.W.E - Fishponds - Broadmead (Every 10 mins) - extension to Bradley Stoke removed (but X74 provides an alternative)
14: U.W.E - Broadmead (Every 15 mins)
19: U.W.E - Redland - Centre (Every 15 mins)

But the 11A will also make a come back Centre - Bower Ashton (No idea that exact timings)

So I am guessing there will be more but who knows!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Looks to be replaced by the 72 as far as Waitrose where it then heads back down Cranbrook Road. So a small part of Henleaze looses the link to UWE.

Yes but what about those people who get a yearly pass, only to find out their bus route has been scrapped?!