Strengthening seaside trains in Summer

[WestCoast]

Things not looking too great in the North West today at the start of the school holidays. Witnessed two crush loaded Pacers at Wigan Wallgate leaving behind dozens of people heading to Southport. Blackpool services are also very busy , in part due to the blockade between Preston and Bolton which has reduced and retimed Blackpool North - Preston options. The 156 I'm on now has left people behind. Spoke to a couple of guards who seemed disappointed that services were not strengthened..

Obviously Northern doesn't have much spare stock but I do wonder if stock is available because of the line closure and if so, can it be used.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm not sure of many of the other strengthening's around the country, but Exeter Depot is now playing home to our 3 car 150002, While a Chiltern 165 is on hire to work the Greenford Branch.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Things not looking too great in the North West today at the start of the school holidays. Witnessed two crush loaded Pacers at Wigan Wallgate leaving behind dozens of people heading to Southport. Blackpool services are also very busy , in part due to the blockade between Preston and Bolton which has reduced and retimed Blackpool North - Preston options. The 156 I'm on now has left people behind. Spoke to a couple of guards who seemed disappointed that services were not strengthened..

Obviously Northern doesn't have much spare stock but I do wonder if stock is available because of the line closure and if so, can it be used.

It is such a shame that our railways can't cope with this. Probably put some people off ever trying train travel again. It is hardly a pleasurable experience being crammed on a train or being left behind due to lack of space. It happens every year....

Seemed to manage extra trains for the Tour de France the other week. Not under the spotlight like that, but why should everyday folk suffer.

To me it is just not good business - treat customers like this and you lose them (and all those they tell). Treat them well and give them a seat, then you can grow.....

 

[Moonshot]

It is such a shame that our railways can't cope with this. Probably put some people off ever trying train travel again. It is hardly a pleasurable experience being crammed on a train or being left behind due to lack of space. It happens every year....

Seemed to manage extra trains for the Tour de France the other week. Not under the spotlight like that, but why should everyday folk suffer.

To me it is just not good business - treat customers like this and you lose them (and all those they tell). Treat them well and give them a seat, then you can grow.....

You say it happens every year ? It actually happens every day!! Its called the Peak Hours.....and affects every sinlge rail operation in the UK.

 

[Bald Rick]

With this title I thought it would be another thread about the Dawlish sea wall...

 

[455driver]

I'm not sure of many of the other strengthening's around the country, but Exeter Depot is now playing home to our 3 car 150002, While a Chiltern 165 is on hire to work the Greenford Branch.

And there was me thinking the 165 was on Reading to Basingstokes, well it was until it failed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is such a shame that our railways can't cope with this. Probably put some people off ever trying train travel again. It is hardly a pleasurable experience being crammed on a train or being left behind due to lack of space. It happens every year....

Seemed to manage extra trains for the Tour de France the other week. Not under the spotlight like that, but why should everyday folk suffer.

To me it is just not good business - treat customers like this and you lose them (and all those they tell). Treat them well and give them a seat, then you can grow.....

So what are your (viable) solutions then?
You do moan a lot but never seem to post any solutions.

Lets be realistic, the trains are full so putting people off would be a good (and cheap) thing to do.

 

[Clip]

Seemed to manage extra trains for the Tour de France the other week. Not under the spotlight like that, but why should everyday folk suffer.

Well the TdF happenned on a saturday where by the nature of weekend work they had spare vehicles to use to strengthen services. Through the week they will have very little if any.

 

[Dunc108]

Things not looking too great in the North West today at the start of the school holidays. Witnessed two crush loaded Pacers at Wigan Wallgate leaving behind dozens of people heading to Southport. Blackpool services are also very busy , in part due to the blockade between Preston and Bolton which has reduced and retimed Blackpool North - Preston options. The 156 I'm on now has left people behind. Spoke to a couple of guards who seemed disappointed that services were not strengthened..

Obviously Northern doesn't have much spare stock but I do wonder if stock is available because of the line closure and if so, can it be used.

I was stood next to a couple a week or so back on Preston station who were complaining about the lack of carriages heading to Blackpool and almost every unit being a 2-car DMU. Some of the York 158's can be 3-car but you can't guarantee it. Alot of them do seem to leave Preston full and standing, holiday times they may be worse. Yes, the Southport line is busy too and unfortunately 142s seem to dominate alot of services.

Is Blackpool now only 3 trains p/h then with the Chorley blockade?

 

[WatcherZero]

I wondered if the poor bustitution for Chorley was due to around ?400? of them being hoovered up from around the country for the Commonwealth games, along with the 350's borrowed from LM.

 

[WestCoast]

Is Blackpool now only 3 trains p/h then with the Chorley blockade?

Pretty much.

It's an irregular timetable, at least on weekdays. The Manchester Victoria/Huddersfield services do not run. Mostly three trains an hour leaving Blackpool North during the day, with four p/h during two commuter peak hours, two p/h early morning and evening and only one (!) between 09.00 and 10.00. I presume due to pathing and/or stock issues on the diverted TPE services running via Hindley.

The York services are replacing the Man Vic/Hud stopping all stations Layton/ Poulton/Kirkham - these will be cosy I predict!

Two rail replacement coaches were stationed at Blackpool North this morning, so that is probably how large loads will be handled.

See here: http://www.brtimes.com/#!board?stn=BPN&date=20140723

 

[Dunc108]

The York services are replacing the Man Vic/Hud stopping all stations Layton/ Poulton/Kirkham - these will be cosy I predict!

See here: http://www.brtimes.com/#!board?stn=BPN&date=20140723

Yes, sounds like heading to the seaside with the kids will be quite an experience for some these next 4 weeks, and in this intense heat I can't think of anything more uncomfortable than being squashed into a crush loaded 142 or 150!

 

[Sheepy1209]

I've posted my thoughts on the related electrification thread, but no harm in repeating - the arrangements for coping with the (necessary) Chorley blockade are confusing and come right in Blackpool's peak season. If it had been raining maybe there'd be no problem, but when the sun shines, especially in the school holidays, day trippers pile on the train.

That's NOT the same as the routine 'peak hours', but it IS a regular enough occurrence that you'd think the possibility would at least be anticipated. Also, if you live around Chorley and have a choice between getting a coach to Preston, then changing to the train - or a direct train from Euxton - which will you choose?

Information IS available, a lot of effort has gone into it, but it's a complex situation with a great deal of variation from day to day and hour to hour; it doesn't help that TPE publish information about their services on their own website, while Northern do the same for theirs. I certainly can't make sense of it all!

I point to issues with Blackpool services, where a heatwave doesn't help, but I'm sure it's just as bad for others in the area.

If it's any consolation, the main 'Yeadon Way' road into Blackpool, busiest during the illuminations, is going to be closed from the start of the illuminations in September - so it's not just the railway!

 

[starrymarkb]

I think another issue is the changeable UK weather, you can plan extras but if it rains they are going to be empty. Similarly if the sun is out then masses head for the beach.

Also with the TdF a single day's extra's can be covered by putting off maintenance or a day hire in (given it was known about and planned well in advance) - but you can't really do that for a whole summer season.

 

[fgwrich]

And there was me thinking the 165 was on Reading to Basingstokes, well it was until it failed!

I've not seen it out on the branch yet - unless you have? The original info had it down for our branch but I've seen several comments on the net suggesting it had found use on the Greenford Shuttle - Easier to hire from Chiltern presumably than moving it to Reading, whereas I've seen a multiple array of the usual former 165/1s on the branch instead including 165132 again. That said I've not been fully paying too much attention as studies and careers are more important for me at the moment. While 150002 entered service on Sunday after travelling down on the Saturday - that I know because it was out and about on Friday.

 

[Bantamzen]

Lets be realistic, the trains are full so putting people off would be a good (and cheap) thing to do.

But perhaps not the best thing to do in the long term? After all, if the potential business is there do you really want to turn it away? It could have quite the opposite effect and not just put off the excess passengers, but those that use the service on a regular basis.

Well the TdF happenned on a saturday where by the nature of weekend work they had spare vehicles to use to strengthen services. Through the week they will have very little if any.

Indeed and this was an extraordinary, one off event involving large numbers of passengers trying to move around a transport network with many of the main roads closed off, so the train for some places was the only "easy" means of getting around. And I believe it was all hands to the deck for Northern staff over that weekend.

I think another issue is the changeable UK weather, you can plan extras but if it rains they are going to be empty. Similarly if the sun is out then masses head for the beach.

That's always the risk when trying to plan for seasonal events, but generally speaking business will always try to be ready for a busy summer in these places so therefore so should the TOCs wherever possible. Only if the climate does become really unstable will a change of strategy be the best option.

 

[Dunc108]

I bet The Blackpool South services are busier than normal being a diagram down to Blackpool North.. Some days over the holidays are going to be chaotic to say the least!

 

[Masbroughlad]

And there was me thinking the 165 was on Reading to Basingstokes, well it was until it failed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


So what are your (viable) solutions then?
You do moan a lot but never seem to post any solutions.

Lets be realistic, the trains are full so putting people off would be a good (and cheap) thing to do.

No need to be personal and rude. It was a economic driven statement.

Demand and capacity-seaside trains-coaches and stock.

 

[Clip]

No need to be personal and rude. It was a economic driven statement.

Demand and capacity-seaside trains-coaches and stock.

And where will northern get this stock from?

 

[DarloRich]

So what are your (viable) solutions then?
You do moan a lot but never seem to post any solutions.

This!

From where shall TOC's extract the extra stock required?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And where will northern get this stock from?

Well, it won't be from the Blackburn - Copy Pit Line - Todmorden - Manchester service...as Northern Rail won't have any stock even to run a service, let alone to lend, until December on that line....

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is the non-ordering of new DMUs starting to bite all the TOCs in the ass big time?

 

[Manchester77]

Although probably not possible it's a pity virgin cannot offer some summer Saturday trains, like we see EMT doing, running from Euston. Would certainly provide some extra capacity. If that isn't workable then it still baffles me why northern or TPE don't lease a LHCS rake off DRS as we saw them do during the Tour de France since it'd certainly release DMUs for other workings as well as provide capacity on the busiest routes.

 

[northwichcat]

Things not looking too great in the North West today at the start of the school holidays. Witnessed two crush loaded Pacers at Wigan Wallgate leaving behind dozens of people heading to Southport. Blackpool services are also very busy , in part due to the blockade between Preston and Bolton which has reduced and retimed Blackpool North - Preston options. The 156 I'm on now has left people behind. Spoke to a couple of guards who seemed disappointed that services were not strengthened..

Obviously Northern doesn't have much spare stock but I do wonder if stock is available because of the line closure and if so, can it be used.

Generally strengthening on weekdays is only certain off-peak services which can be strengthened using a unit normally sat idle at a station between the peaks without needing extra ECS moves.

Northern also have the RHS Tatton Show and the Liverpool Giants to deal with, both of which have been planned in for a long time, while hot sunny weather just turns up when it feels like it.

 

[Class 170101]

Are there any 185s running to / from Scotland at the moment?

As a suggestion if there are.

Use the 350/3s (more than currently used) between Manchester and Scotland to relase 185s to strengthen between Manchester and Blackpool North.

 

[northernchris]

Northern also have the RHS Tatton Show and the Liverpool Giants to deal with, both of which have been planned in for a long time, while hot sunny weather just turns up when it feels like it.

Exactly! Northern's stock is so thinly spread that they don't have the resources needed to cater for multiple events at the same time whilst still running their existing (PTE sponsored?) peak strengthened services. The 333s have been temperamental this week leading to a 144 and 322 covering their services. This would no doubt leave other diagrams short formed so finding extra units to provide more capacity on a sunny day to Blackpool I imagine will be a challenge!

 

[Dunc108]

Are there any 185s running to / from Scotland at the moment?

As a suggestion if there are.

Use the 350/3s (more than currently used) between Manchester and Scotland to relase 185s to strengthen between Manchester and Blackpool North.

I'm sure 185s released from some Scottish services went to operate the new TPE Newcastle service so I can't imagine there's even many of those spare... I'm expecting more stories of crush loading on Pacers & Sprinters before the end of the holidays!

 

[DarloRich]

Although probably not possible it's a pity virgin cannot offer some summer Saturday trains, like we see EMT doing, running from Euston. Would certainly provide some extra capacity. If that isn't workable then it still baffles me why northern or TPE don't lease a LHCS rake off DRS as we saw them do during the Tour de France since it'd certainly release DMUs for other workings as well as provide capacity on the busiest routes.

cost and operational requirements are why TOCS dont hire in. No doubt the costs of the TdF opperation were underwritten by someone else.

most TOCs run thier fleets as close to maximum operational capacity as they dare. There is little slack.

 

[Moonshot]

Its worth pointing out that Northern carry some 250000 passengers a day on 2500 services per day......an average of 100 per service.

i would also point out that yesterday I worked 6 services across Northerns network....all with 4 car units. 1 service was absolute rammed to the limits, 1 was full but with no one standing, and the other 4 were less than 5% loaded. This is not untypical of an average day for me at work

 

[Mark62]

Things not looking too great in the North West today at the start of the school holidays. Witnessed two crush loaded Pacers at Wigan Wallgate leaving behind dozens of people heading to Southport. Blackpool services are also very busy , in part due to the blockade between Preston and Bolton which has reduced and retimed Blackpool North - Preston options. The 156 I'm on now has left people behind. Spoke to a couple of guards who seemed disappointed that services were not strengthened..

Obviously Northern doesn't have much spare stock but I do wonder if stock is available because of the line closure and if so, can it be used.

Obviously Northern don't want to lease any more stock. There is stock available but northern don't want to upset the shareholders. I wonder how many of them travel in the cattle trains that pay for their chauffeured limousines?

 

[muddythefish]

Lets be realistic, the trains are full so putting people off would be a good (and cheap) thing to do.

The old BR ploy - put fares up or make a service bad enough and the passengers will go away. I thought we didn't do that anymore (unless your post was tongue in cheek ) ?

Aside from that, it's clear that nationally there is not enough rolling stock to accommodate burgeoning demand for rail travel. Unfortunately as long as the purse strings are controlled from London nothing will change.