Experience trying to get an excess yesterday

[tom3107]

Just wondered what peoples opinions are on this experience yesterday...

Yesterday, I held an anytime single, but about 20 mins into my journey I found out that I needed to stay overnight and would have to return the following morning by train - as such I attempted to get an excess to an Off-Peak return, the ticket was originally bought from FCC the day before travel.

First, I went to the EMT ticket office at St Pancras who said that it was "not impossible" but as i've started the journey it has to be dealt with by FCC.

Second, went to the FCC office who said I would have to go down the refund route with £10 fee and buy a new ticket.

Third, went to East Coast at Kings Cross who said point blank that it can't be done.

Fourth, went to FGW at Paddington and the clerk spent a long time trying to do it, also consulting with her supervisor before apologising saying she couldn't find out how to do it - they both said that they were going to find out how to do it for future reference which was good.

Finally, on the FGW train 2 RPIs boarded and issued the excess in about a minute.

Its worth noting that I was in a TOC uniform at the time, so at no point did I feel that any staff were just being difficult - it appears there is a clear lack of training in this area which should be addressed!

 

[Paul Kelly]

I think King's Cross ticket office were the best-trained, if not the most accommodating! As far as I know an excess such as this is really only supposed to be issued when facilities to buy the ticket you need weren't available at the origin station. In practice, discretion may be shown - but I don't think you have grounds for complaint if you don't get it.

 

[BestWestern]

A bit confused, that should be a very, very simple excess!?

 

[bb21]

I have yet to successfully obtain any excess fare from King's Cross ticket office (four separate occasions), contrary to my experience at other East Coast stations, although I am hopeful that it would change.

EMT at St Pancake is where I go most often if an excess is required. I am yet to be refused or sold the wrong product (six occasions so far).

FCC are OK from what little I know about them. I have only used it once, the clerk was unable to excess the ticket because FasTIS would not let him. (He showed me the screen.)

 

[Haywain]

It would help to know what the journey for the Anytime Single was, as this may well affect the answers the OP was given.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I've often found that the Merseyrail M-to-go shop in Hooton who don't know how to issue a Birmingham-Derby single or a Lancashire Day Ranger are actually very good at excess tickets. Same goes with the one at Lime Street Low Level.

Also, Leeds ticket office were very good at issuing the same type of excess you were after and she did it in about 2 minutes and was very friendly.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I agree with Indigo2.

A single to return excess should be done before boarding a train, unless there are no facilities to do so.

So, if there was an open ticket office at your origin station, Kings Cross were correct to say it can't be done.

[I believe this is normally the point when someone comes along and says you need to complain to each of the other TOCs and demand that the staff are retrained and add that you want proof that training has happened, and if you don't get a satisfactory answer you should write to London Travel Watch and/or your MP]

 

[bb21]

[I believe this is normally the point when someone comes along and says you need to complain to each of the other TOCs and demand that the staff are retrained and add that you want proof that training has happened, and if you don't get a satisfactory answer you should write to London Travel Watch and/or your MP]

Cynicism much?

 

[WelshBluebird]

A single to return excess should be done before boarding a train, unless there are no facilities to do so

Which is great, unless your plans change during the journey.

There is no reason why an excess can't be done in the OP's case (as the fact they got one in the end proves). If you want to take the hard line that you can only do it before the journey starts, then at the very least you must agree the staff the OP encountered made hard work of what should have been an easy task (telling them specifically that it is not impossible but guidelines are that an excess should be done before the journey starts and that is what they were sticking to). There is simply no need to make up rules (that it could only be dealt with by FCC) or no excuse for poor training (which is clearly the case if a member of staff doesn't know how to issue an excess).

 

[SickyNicky]

I have yet to successfully obtain any excess fare from King's Cross ticket office (four separate occasions), contrary to my experience at other East Coast stations, although I am hopeful that it would change.

Interesting. In this post I experienced quite the opposite from King's Cross, who were efficient and courteous when issuing a zero fare overdistance excess with a change of route for a ticket in a completely different area of the country.

Maybe I just got a "good" clerk.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Which is great, unless your plans change during the journey....

You win some, you lose some.

....There is no reason why an excess can't be done in the OP's case (as the fact they got one in the end proves)....

Apart from it not being permitted you mean? Or is this another case of the rules not applying because it would be inconvenient to a "customer".

.....If you want to take the hard line that you can only do it before the journey starts, then at the very least you must agree the staff the OP encountered made hard work of what should have been an easy task (telling them specifically that it is not impossible but guidelines are that an excess should be done before the journey starts and that is what they were sticking to)....

You did read all of my post, didn't you?

If rules don't allow it, it's not "not impossible", it's "not possible".

....There is simply no need to make up rules (that it could only be dealt with by FCC) or no excuse for poor training (which is clearly the case if a member of staff doesn't know how to issue an excess).

I agree. All staff should know everything that their job entails plus anything else that might, at some point during their career, be useful to know, and use that information to best effect. It's not like we are human or anything like that is it?

 

[tom3107]

I agree with Indigo2.

A single to return excess should be done before boarding a train, unless there are no facilities to do so.

There was no open ticket office at the time I travelled from my origin (northern TL route), but even so, it seems unlikely that somebody would need one before a journey starts.

Both the RPI's seemed happy to issue it and the one who did seemed like he'd done it many times before considering how quick he was!

 

[yorkie]

Just wondered what peoples opinions are on this experience yesterday...

Yesterday, I held an anytime single, but about 20 mins into my journey I found out that I needed to stay overnight and would have to return the following morning by train - as such I attempted to get an excess to an Off-Peak return, the ticket was originally bought from FCC the day before travel.

Out of interest, why did you get a Single and not a Return, and why did you buy it in advance?

You should really get a Return if you want to return. However if you go to a ticket office before travel, generally discretion will be shown and an excess issued.

First, I went to the EMT ticket office at St Pancras who said that it was "not impossible" but as i've started the journey it has to be dealt with by FCC.

It is difficult to comment without more information.

Second, went to the FCC office who said I would have to go down the refund route with £10 fee and buy a new ticket.

That's not quite right as you had already commenced the journey so a refund wasn't an option!

Third, went to East Coast at Kings Cross who said point blank that it can't be done.

It can be done, but that doesn't mean it should.

Fourth, went to FGW at Paddington and the clerk spent a long time trying to do it, also consulting with her supervisor before apologising saying she couldn't find out how to do it - they both said that they were going to find out how to do it for future reference which was good.

Indeed, even if entitled to an excess (and it's likely you weren't), it can be difficult to find staff who are both willing and able to do it!

Finally, on the FGW train 2 RPIs boarded and issued the excess in about a minute.

On-board staff are much more likely to be competent at excess fares than ticket office staff, in my experience.

Its worth noting that I was in a TOC uniform at the time, so at no point did I feel that any staff were just being difficult - it appears there is a clear lack of training in this area which should be addressed!

I totally agree that there is a lack of training regarding excess fares generally. Some excess types are also undocumented (e.g. Railcard discounted fares to non-discounted, where done before travel or where there was no opportunity before boarding).

 

[tom3107]

Out of interest, why did you get a Single and not a Return, and why did you buy it in advance?

Because I was originally supposed to be getting a lift the majority of the way home with a colleague who fell sick. Bought the day before for ease, and regardless, the same ticket would have been bought on the day - my plans didn't change until I was on the train...

You'd assume RPI's would be the most trained in ticketing matters, so if they issued such an excess I'd personally assume its permitted. Even FGW at Paddington sort of 'accepted' that it was permitted but just gave the impression they didn't know how to do it.

 

[yorkie]

Because I was originally supposed to be getting a lift the majority of the way home with a colleague who fell sick. Bought the day before for ease

It's only easier if you are certain you are happy with the ticket you've bought though - as you now know!

and regardless, the same ticket would have been bought on the day - my plans didn't change until I was on the train...

I don't think you were entitled to an excess in that case.

The ticket can't be excessed at all once the journey has completed. When the journey is in progress, it's going to be down to discretion and local instruction as there's no entitlement to an excess in the circumstances described.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... but even so, it seems unlikely that somebody would need one before a journey starts.....

Really?

Is it more likely that a change of plans like this would occur in the 60 (??) minute journey to London, or the 12 (??) hour period between buying the ticket and actually travelling?

What about those who planned way ahead of time and bought tickets two or even three weeks ahead? What about those who bought the ticket two months ahead?

Still unlikely?

....Both the RPI's seemed happy to issue it and the one who did seemed like he'd done it many times before considering how quick he was!

The process of doing an excess isn't usually that complex, some ticket office machines do have issues with single to return Excess Fares though.

 

[Haywain]

To confirm the views of hairyhandedfool and yorkie, this is what Knowledgbase has to say on the subject:

The Excess Fare to charge on board the train where there was “opportunity to buy” before boarding
Charge a new Single ticket for the return leg, as if no ticket was held.

The Excess Fare to charge before travel, or on board the train when there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding
It is permitted to charge an excess fare to upgrade a Single ticket into a Return (but not into London Day Travelcards), provided the excess fare is paid before departure. If no ticket office facilities are available, it must be done at the earliest possible opportunity, but before the validity of the Single has expired,

So no, it can't* be done.

*Isn't permitted by the rules.

 

[talltim]

The Excess Fare to charge on board the train where there was “opportunity to buy” before boarding
Charge a new Single ticket for the return leg, as if no ticket was held.

Apparently there was no "opportunity to buy" before boarding in this case*

The Excess Fare to charge before travel, or on board the train when there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding
It is permitted to charge an excess fare to upgrade a Single ticket into a Return (but not into London Day Travelcards), provided the excess fare is paid before departure. If no ticket office facilities are available, it must be done at the earliest possible opportunity, but before the validity of the Single has expired,

No ticket facilities was available before boarding so it fall to the earliest possible opportunity. No problem there.
Its the doing it before the validity of the Single has expired that it may fail on, the OP isn't clear but I get the impression that he was making a journey across London and got the excess on the section of the journey out again (on FGW) while his single was still valid so it shouldn't fail there either.
Obviously there were previous opportunities before the RPIs on the train, but they all failed to sell the excess that the Knowledgebase said they should.

*obviously there was an opportunity to buy before boarding, otherwise he wouldn't have had a ticket at all, but...