SWT Class 455 numbering

[adrock1976]

While I was riding some SWT services last weekend, I noticed that the numbering system used on the cab ends are 4 digits e.g. 5902.

Is the actual number in the above example 455902, and therefore do I disregard the first digit out of the four when noting down the numbers?

in peace

Adam

 

[TEW]

Yes, 5902=455902. It is traditional for Southern Region units to have 4 digit numbers on the front. The 458/0s are similarly numbered. So 458006 displays 8006 on the front.

 

[Muzer]

Yep - the 5 is just the last digit of the 455. As TEW said, it's a tradition that's almost gone now - only SWT 455s and 458/0s to my knowledge retain it on the mainline network (I'm sure someone can name some I've forgotten).

 

[NSEFAN]

IIRC, the Southern 4-digit system was only converted to its current format (last 4 digits of TOPS number) fairly late on, with the SR having its own numbering? Did the class 455s ever follow the older convention?

 

[David Goddard]

The Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Railway_multiple_unit_numbering_and_classification quotes that the Southern system was dropped in 1983, just after the 455's introduction, so it follows that they did not use the old format.

It is interesting how only the 455s and 458s continue to use the abbreviated TOPS format, yet the 508s (earlier), and the 456 and Networkers (built in between these two types) used the full TOPs number.
I believe that the 442s did on introduction, alongside the vehicle number on the driving cars.
The South Central (Southern) 455s regained full six digit numbers on refurbishment, as are the 458s on conversion to 458/5.

 

[jopsuk]

The 508s are an oddity, as they didn't follow the southern TOPS numbering scheme- 5xx was supposed to be for non-southern DC, and even if they had been 5xx but numbered as a southern unit, they should perhaps have been Class 545- as a true southern unit it should have been 445.

455, 456, 442, 465 and 466 did follow the old scheme, but this was then dropped thereafter- class 319 were simply numbered as AC units in sequence and post privatisation designs threw all logic out the window.

The Southern Scheme as applied to TOPS is here. Basically they follow 4 (for Southern DC unit), then a year-range (sort of), then what sort of unit it is.

 

[TEW]

The South Central (Southern) 455s regained full six digit numbers on refurbishment, as are the 458s on conversion to 458/5.

When 455711 emerged from Bournemouth as the first until in the current overhaul programme it carried a full 6 digit number too. There are some pictures of it on Flickr carrying the full 455711 number. Before entering service it went back to 5711 though. Internally both SWT and Southern refer to units mainly by 4 digit numbers only.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

While we are on the subject, since the quality standard BS5750 has been ISO9002 for at least a decade, isn't it time that 5750 ( ie 455 750 ) was renumbered back to the number it should have - 5743?

 

[hassaanhc]

The Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Railway_multiple_unit_numbering_and_classification quotes that the Southern system was dropped in 1983, just after the 455's introduction, so it follows that they did not use the old format.

It is interesting how only the 455s and 458s continue to use the abbreviated TOPS format, yet the 508s (earlier), and the 456 and Networkers (built in between these two types) used the full TOPs number.
I believe that the 442s did on introduction, alongside the vehicle number on the driving cars.
The South Central (Southern) 455s regained full six digit numbers on refurbishment, as are the 458s on conversion to 458/5.

The other weird thing is the 442s were allocated the designation of "5WES" but the older 455s weren't given a designation (or did the 4PEP cover it?). The 456 and 465/466 weren't given one either, yet the 458s were given the code 4JOP (now a 5JOP as well) while the 450 is a 4DES and 444 is 5DES, plus the 460 was 8GAT. I'm not aware of such a code for the Electrostars.

 

[Muzer]

Were some of those ever actually official?

 

[hassaanhc]

Were some of those ever actually official?

The 4JOP one should be official as it appears on the data plate at the ends of the coaches

Image from http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/rolling-stock/458-fall-and-rise/swt458f08a.html

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The other weird thing is the 442s were allocated the designation of "5WES" but the older 455s weren't given a designation (or did the 4PEP cover it?). The 456 and 465/466 weren't given one either, yet the 458s were given the code 4JOP (now a 5JOP as well) while the 450 is a 4DES and 444 is 5DES, plus the 460 was 8GAT. I'm not aware of such a code for the Electrostars.

I propose, for the 455s, 4-YUK.

And I wonder whether the 442s should be re-labelled as 5-FEU...

 

[455driver]

I propose, for the 455s, 4-YUK.

Oy less of!

 

[Domh245]

Provided that stagecoach stay in charge till the bitter end of the 455s, the sw region 455s could become 4-REDs. The south central 455s could equally be called 4-FUGs (the reasons for which can be seen in the 'ugliest train' thread)

Surely the 442s should be known as 5-BBQ!

 

[DJL]

Apparently I'm in a minority for thinking that SWTs 455s look quite good, certainly from the front.

Actually there are 2 different shapes. I prefer the ones with the protruding bits at the top.
Also I don't like the odd car from the other units (508 is it?)

In other worse I prefer the one on the left here: http://trainfactor.com/USERIMAGES/257.JPG

No idea why.

Southern's version on the other hand - the modified front looks awful!