Stupid fares question re: Off-peak

[Tim R-T-C]

Hi folks,

Really silly question, but I still have not gotten to grips yet with how rail fares really work despite travelling by train all the time.

I am planning to go to Thirsk tomorrow, to stand on the station for a considerable amount of time, then come home again (as people do... )

On National Rail when I look for Steeton & Silsden to Thirsk, leaving by the first available train (0555) it offers an off-peak return as the first option. Looking for York the ticket is an Anytime. Would I be okay to buy an off-peak ticket to Thirsk or is this a glitch?

 

[island]

This probably isn't allowed. The off-peak return from Steeton & Silsden to Thirsk has no time restriction but doesn't allow break of journey. From Steeton & Silsden to York the restriction is 0815 and later.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

This probably isn't allowed. The off-peak return from Steeton & Silsden to Thirsk has no time restriction but doesn't allow break of journey. From Steeton & Silsden to York the restriction is 0815 and later.

I was planning to hop on a TransPennine Leeds to Thirsk direct train, break at York on the way back.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....On National Rail when I look for Steeton & Silsden to Thirsk, leaving by the first available train (0555) it offers an off-peak return as the first option. Looking for York the ticket is an Anytime. Would I be okay to buy an off-peak ticket to Thirsk or is this a glitch?

If you are actually travelling from Steeton & Silsden, you can use the Off-Peak Return on any service, however, your outward journey must start at Steeton & Silsden.

Unless stated otherwise in the restriction code for the ticket, restrictions for journeys from any other station are not relevant.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I am travelling from Steeton. Looked at fares to York for comparison.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

You can change at Leeds (and even use station facilities on the outside of the barriers) as that is not classified as a break of journey.

Your ticket allows BoJ on the return leg, so you could spend some time in York on your way back.

 

[tony_mac]

I think people have jumped to the conclusion that the question was more complicated than it really was!

Yes, the off-peak fare to Thirsk is really valid at any time. No, it's not a glitch, and yes, it's completely fine to just buy it!

Breaking your journey wherever you like on the return portion is also completely fine.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Thanks for all the help folks.

 

[yorkie]

Would I be okay to buy an off-peak ticket to Thirsk or is this a glitch?

This ticket type was formerly known as Saver Return. Indeed the 3-letter code 'SVR' is retained. Saver Returns for non-London area journeys were always valid at any time under British Rail. That was very much intentional and not a "glitch". It was also genuinely simple.

Unfortunately after privatisation, several Train Companies decided that they would introduce morning restrictions on some (or all) flows that they price, for this ticket type. They then decided the old name 'Saver' was too complicated, so they decided to "simplify the choice" by re-naming them 'Off Peak', and claiming that "Ticket terms and conditions are now the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand." The people who wrote that allegedly have incredibly long noses.

Note that they are not allowed to introduce evening restrictions, nor are they allowed to prohibit break of journey on the return portion, due to fares regulation. If they were allowed to do this, I can guarantee that some of them would be.

 

[island]

Note that they are not allowed to introduce evening restrictions, nor are they allowed to prohibit break of journey on the return portion, due to fares regulation. If they were allowed to do this, I can guarantee that some of them would be.

Indeed, many of them have anyway and have had to do U-turns.

 

[Greeby]

This ticket type was formerly known as Saver Return. Indeed the 3-letter code 'SVR' is retained. Saver Returns for non-London area journeys were always valid at any time under British Rail. That was very much intentional and not a "glitch". It was also genuinely simple.

Unfortunately after privatisation, several Train Companies decided that they would introduce morning restrictions on some (or all) flows that they price, for this ticket type. They then decided the old name 'Saver' was too complicated, so they decided to "simplify the choice" by re-naming them 'Off Peak', and claiming that "Ticket terms and conditions are now the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand." The people who wrote that allegedly have incredibly long noses.

Note that they are not allowed to introduce evening restrictions, nor are they allowed to prohibit break of journey on the return portion, due to fares regulation. If they were allowed to do this, I can guarantee that some of them would be.

As someone who had to put up with three years of every day getting grief from passengers over a northbound (away from London) evening peak that the pricing TOC had no business introducing. "Not allowed" doesn't always translate into "prevented from doing"

 

[yorkie]

As someone who had to put up with three years of every day getting grief from passengers over a northbound (away from London) evening peak that the pricing TOC had no business introducing. "Not allowed" doesn't always translate into "prevented from doing"

Indeed. The DfT doesn't appear to do any pro-active regulating, and is a very ineffective regulator.

But they're allowed to have evening restrictions out of London, though longer distance journeys that involve either origin or destination or both being outside the 'Network Area' have special rules (ie, you can't have restrictions on both the legs either side of London)

 

[davetheguard]

Indeed, many of them have anyway and have had to do U-turns.

I thought XC had introduced evening peak restrictions with some of the fares they set (Burton on Trent sort of area?); and caused all sorts of problems as a result.

Have they had to drop these restrictions then? Very good news if they have.

 

[yorkie]

I thought XC had introduced evening peak restrictions with some of the fares they set (Burton on Trent sort of area?); and caused all sorts of problems as a result.

Have they had to drop these restrictions then? Very good news if they have.

I can't remember which Companies introduced evening restrictions on protected former Saver Return fares for non-London journeys, contrary to fares regulation, and had to backtrack (but, as far as I'm aware, were not punished), so I don't know if XC have tried that.

But XC do currently have restrictions on Off Peak Day fares (formerly known as Cheap Day Return) for which the appropriate excess may well be to the the Off Peak Return (formerly known as Saver Return).

I posted about this in the Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions thread:

The following scenario happens on XC, and will soon happen on Northern...

"Sorry Sir, this isn't an off peak day service, therefore your Off Peak Day Return is not valid. I will have to charge you the excess to the Off Peak Return, which is valid. That will be £3.60 please"

In fact, an XC Guard once told me that he stopped charging such excesses as it made him look ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that many Off Peak Day fares would have been valid anyway as they were set by another operator!

Guards will spend an increasing amount of time trying to get small amounts of money in excess fares from confused passengers carrying Off Peak Day fares set by that operator, but any Off Peak fares, or Off Peak Day fares set by other operators will remain valid.

The rail industry continues to make ticketing more and more complex. That means it's even more vital to get the best advice from this forum to avoid being fleeced.

Note that the Train Companies don't admit this, National Rail Enquiries claim:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46442.aspx

The new names describe when you can buy or use a ticket ...

Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy. Where there is more than one Off-Peak fare for a journey, the cheaper fare with more restrictions will be named Super Off-Peak...

The new fare names simplify the choice, allowing you to choose your rail ticket with confidence.

Anyone here got some cash and access to a really good solicitor?

I'd love to see this tested in court...

 

[button_boxer]

I thought XC had introduced evening peak restrictions with some of the fares they set (Burton on Trent sort of area?); and caused all sorts of problems as a result.

Evening peak restrictions are allowed on non-London Off-Peak Day tickets, but not on tickets that were formerly Savers.

I've had a number of occasions where I needed to travel from Derby to Birmingham late afternoon (4pm or so) and return 10pm or so the same day. The cheapest available ticket was the Off-Peak Return (valid for a month) because of the evening peak restrictions on the Off-Peak Day Return.

 

[bb21]

Thank goodness for regulation. I strongly suspect that given the chance, XC would not hesitate in adding evening restrictions to Savers either.