First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair having a more uniform fleet does have its plus points! And the streetlites must be good from Firsts point of view!

Many advantages from better unit price in procurement through to lower numbers of spares required/less time off road. The new Hybrid drive Streetlite should also be good on mpg so all makes sense.

 

[Class 33]

We'll have to see. It may be that's it; just that VOSA have done it in the past so perhaps prudent to wait a few days

Really think that's it. Though possibility of some more announcements for First Bristol in the next VOSA edition next Tuesday. If nothing in that, then that will be it as next Tuesday it will then only be just over 5 weeks before the changes.

But as it stands a very VERY un-interesting list of changes due on 31st August compared to other years. Just some minor timetable adjustments on the 5, 48,49, 50,51, and 90. And the 20 being cancelled with no replacement service covering any of the route it appears. Also no re-numbered services or brand new services introduced. Of course First aren't going to come up with really interesting changes or new services for the sake of it, but I was hoping for something a little more interesting than what we've (currently) got!

The slightly adjusted timetables for the 5, 48, 49, 50, 51, and 90 from 31st August are now viewable on TravelineSW. Allthough according to that website the 20 will still be in service from 31st August.

 

[THarris123]

Traveline sw also shows that X6 and X46 are changing in Bristol. 4 and 13 in Bath on Traveline show that those timetables finish on 30/08/2014 - could we see some changes to these?

From Traveline it also looks like pretty much all of Somerbus' routes are changing, along with some of the smaller companies (CT Coaches, etc).

 

[Class 33]

Have looked at the current and forthcoming timetables for the X6. And the only difference seems to be just hourly Sunday services introduced from 31st August.

 

[THarris123]

What about the other services?

I've just noticed on VOSA that Wessex appear to have a new park and ride contract. 901 - Portway P&R via Clifton Village. Am I right in seeing this?
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Also whilst I'm on here, what do people think of the Mercs on the 902/904 P&R? I went to the Isle of Man that other week and the majority of stuff they have over there are the same as CT Plus' stuff (except not Bendy!). Has First ever thought about investing in some of these? They are brilliant vehicles - just as good as Streetlites.

 

[Class 33]

What about the other services?

I've just noticed on VOSA that Wessex appear to have a new park and ride contract. 901 - Portway P&R via Clifton Village. Am I right in seeing this?
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Also whilst I'm on here, what do people think of the Mercs on the 902/904 P&R? I went to the Isle of Man that other week and the majority of stuff they have over there are the same as CT Plus' stuff (except not Bendy!). Has First ever thought about investing in some of these? They are brilliant vehicles - just as good as Streetlites.

It doesn't really bother me. But I think there should be seperate topics for other non-First bus companies such as Wessex Connect, Buses of Somerset, WebberBus, etc. Rather than discussions about them mixed in this thread.

Can you post a link to a Flickr photo of these particular buses on the 902 & 904? I don't know which buses you mean, unless it's those bendy buses you mean.

 

[Private Baxter]

I was on the X39 this afternoon travelling into Bristol, where I noticed 66352 heading towards Bath, with Private Charter in its display, so npresumably just come up the M5 from Brisgwater to its new home. Think that just makes one more to go..?

Also a very unusual, and unexpected working today: A Hengrove streetlite working the A1.

 

[swifty]

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Also whilst I'm on here, what do people think of the Mercs on the 902/904 P&R? I went to the Isle of Man that other week and the majority of stuff they have over there are the same as CT Plus' stuff (except not Bendy!). Has First ever thought about investing in some of these? They are brilliant vehicles - just as good as Streetlites.

The park and ride Citaros specifically, they're knackered. What happened to the promises of a refurb and the newer engines that were promised?

As for the Citaro in general it's an expensive product in comparisons with the Streetlite, hence the real lack of bulk orders for them. They'll be fine for an 'up market' route upgrade in small numbers but purchase and operating costs would well above similar buses. Bristol also happens to be home to the first Euro 6 Mk3 Citaros as it happens as well!
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I was on the X39 this afternoon travelling into Bristol, where I noticed 66352 heading towards Bath, with Private Charter in its display, so npresumably just come up the M5 from Brisgwater to its new home. Think that just makes one more to go..?

Also a very unusual, and unexpected working today: A Hengrove streetlite working the A1.

It used to be the Darts when they were at Hengrove, so I guess the next step down now are the Streetlites.

I've noticed that there seems to be a single deck working off of the centre between 9-9.30 on the 45 the past few weeks, it was 42264 yesterday, but most other day it's a newer Dart of somesort.

 

[CD]

I was on the X39 this afternoon travelling into Bristol, where I noticed 66352 heading towards Bath, with Private Charter in its display, so npresumably just come up the M5 from Brisgwater to its new home. Think that just makes one more to go..?

Also a very unusual, and unexpected working today: A Hengrove streetlite working the A1.

All of Baths B6bles 40588-94 except fire damaged 40589 are now in Taunton.
So keep a lookout for B7Ls 66350/52/54 in Bath as they were not on the 21 today.
In fact within half an hour of 40588 arriving in Taunton it was out working !!!
Usual chronic shortage of vehicles there.

 

[swifty]

What about the other services?

I've just noticed on VOSA that Wessex appear to have a new park and ride contract. 901 - Portway P&R via Clifton Village. Am I right in seeing this?

It's a 3 bus working on a 20 minute headway, Portway, Blackboy Hill, Zoo, Clifton Village, Blackboy Hill, Portway. Presumably as a responce to the uproar over the Clifton RPZ?

 

[ClevedonYellow]

Have looked at the current and forthcoming timetables for the X6. And the only difference seems to be just hourly Sunday services introduced from 31st August.

I can't see anything on the forthcoming Timetables on the First Bus website. What sort of times / Time intervals are they?

 

[South Westerly]

All of Baths B6bles 40588-94 except fire damaged 40589 are now in Taunton.
So keep a lookout for B7Ls 66350/52/54 in Bath as they were not on the 21 today.
In fact within half an hour of 40588 arriving in Taunton it was out working !!!
Usual chronic shortage of vehicles there.

There is no shortage of buses in Taunton.
Also there is a narrow solo, exchanged in place of the burnt out B6
All 7 of the the B7s are now with bath

 

[Class 33]

I can't see anything on the forthcoming Timetables on the First Bus website. What sort of times / Time intervals are they?

They won't be on the forthcoming timetables on First's site untill only about 2 weeks before the 31st August (very minor) changes!

Go on TravelineSW. Do a search for a journey from say Bristol bus station-Clevedon for any day from 31st August. Scroll down to the journey which shows the X6. Click on the X6 link and you get a timetable for the X6 from 31st August. As I said, Mondays-Saturdays timetable appears to be exactly the same as the current timetable. Only thing different is the hourly service on Sundays.

 

[Private Baxter]

There is no shortage of buses in Taunton.
Also there is a narrow solo, exchanged in place of the burnt out B6
All 7 of the the B7s are now with bath

Ah brilliant news. Wondered what had replaced the burnt out one, I guess Taunton had to make up for the one lost rather than Bath! 40894 was out on 29 today. Expect to see these in BoS livery soon! So have all the S UAKs gone as well? haven't seen any in a while. And any news on Bristol MH's new streetlites? Still got the darts at the moment.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is no shortage of buses in Taunton.
Also there is a narrow solo, exchanged in place of the burnt out B6
All 7 of the the B7s are now with bath

That one of the Essex registered ones that was at Wells?

 

[South Westerly]

That one of the Essex registered ones that was at Wells?

It's an 05

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ah brilliant news. Wondered what had replaced the burnt out one, I guess Taunton had to make up for the one lost rather than Bath! 40894 was out on 29 today. Expect to see these in BoS livery soon! So have all the S UAKs gone as well? haven't seen any in a while. And any news on Bristol MH's new streetlites? Still got the darts at the moment.

40534 was still working on Friday
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The park and ride Citaros specifically, they're knackered. What happened to the promises of a refurb and the newer engines that were promised?

As for the Citaro in general it's an expensive product in comparisons with the Streetlite, hence the real lack of bulk orders for them. They'll be fine for an 'up market' route upgrade in small numbers but purchase and operating costs would well above similar buses. Bristol also happens to be home to the first Euro 6 Mk3 Citaros as it happens as well!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Absolutely. The ex London ones that CT Plus are hammered and the promised improvements haven't and won't be delivered.

First did get Citaros for their Manchester operations in 2000, but they're very expensive to buy, run and maintain. Also, the whole industry has changed with a focus on lightweight single decks.
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It's an 05

Bit modern for BoS!!
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It doesn't really bother me. But I think there should be seperate topics for other non-First bus companies such as Wessex Connect, Buses of Somerset, WebberBus, etc. Rather than discussions about them mixed in this thread.

Makes sense though Buses of Somerset IS a First firm so keep it in this thread but good for the remainder

 

[THarris123]

40534 was still working on Friday
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Absolutely. The ex London ones that CT Plus are hammered and the promised improvements haven't and won't be delivered.

First did get Citaros for their Manchester operations in 2000, but they're very expensive to buy, run and maintain. Also, the whole industry has changed with a focus on lightweight single decks.
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Makes sense though Buses of Somerset IS a First firm so keep it in this thread but good for the remainder

That makes sense about the Mercs. They're too expensive!

I also agree with you on the BoS stuff.
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Something interesting about the 2 and 4 in Bath. 2 is being cancelled by First, but CT Coaches are going to take it on - that probably won't last too long until they wreck that and First are back on there!!

4 is supposedly also getting another tender for Bathampton. Not sure who - probably CT again.

That will probably mean some of the older solos are sold off. I can't imagine there would be anything else extra left from this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The park and ride Citaros specifically, they're knackered. What happened to the promises of a refurb and the newer engines that were promised?

As for the Citaro in general it's an expensive product in comparisons with the Streetlite, hence the real lack of bulk orders for them. They'll be fine for an 'up market' route upgrade in small numbers but purchase and operating costs would well above similar buses. Bristol also happens to be home to the first Euro 6 Mk3 Citaros as it happens as well!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It used to be the Darts when they were at Hengrove, so I guess the next step down now are the Streetlites.

I've noticed that there seems to be a single deck working off of the centre between 9-9.30 on the 45 the past few weeks, it was 42264 yesterday, but most other day it's a newer Dart of somesort.

What's 42264? A dart? Did you mean 46264 (the P reg)?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

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Something interesting about the 2 and 4 in Bath. 2 is being cancelled by First, but CT Coaches are going to take it on - that probably won't last too long until they wreck that and First are back on there!!

4 is supposedly also getting another tender for Bathampton. Not sure who - probably CT again.

That will probably mean some of the older solos are sold off. I can't imagine there would be anything else extra left from this.
QUOTE]

Citaros are lovely machines; I've travelled on Go Ahead ones across County Durham and they're far superior to other kit such as Wright Solars and Scania Omnicities. However, you do pay for that.

Also, the industry is in a place where lightweight is very much order of the day. Arriva have gone for Wright Pulsars and are now following the Streetlite route along with First and Go Ahead (who incidentally also dual source with Optare Versas). Meanwhile, Stagecoach and their "connection" with ADL mean e300s. The heavyweight chassis is less preferable because of the fuel implications (exacerbated by Euro VI) and also DDA means that firms are sprinting to get their fleets compliant so lighter and cheaper means you get more new compliant vehicles for the same money

I don't think First will be selling off any redundant Solos from Bath. The oldest are the Essex ones (02 plate?) so plenty of life left in them, especially when other First subsidiaries are still running V and W reg examples.

 

[THarris123]

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Something interesting about the 2 and 4 in Bath. 2 is being cancelled by First, but CT Coaches are going to take it on - that probably won't last too long until they wreck that and First are back on there!!

4 is supposedly also getting another tender for Bathampton. Not sure who - probably CT again.

That will probably mean some of the older solos are sold off. I can't imagine there would be anything else extra left from this.
QUOTE]

Citaros are lovely machines; I've travelled on Go Ahead ones across County Durham and they're far superior to other kit such as Wright Solars and Scania Omnicities. However, you do pay for that.

Also, the industry is in a place where lightweight is very much order of the day. Arriva have gone for Wright Pulsars and are now following the Streetlite route along with First and Go Ahead (who incidentally also dual source with Optare Versas). Meanwhile, Stagecoach and their "connection" with ADL mean e300s. The heavyweight chassis is less preferable because of the fuel implications (exacerbated by Euro VI) and also DDA means that firms are sprinting to get their fleets compliant so lighter and cheaper means you get more new compliant vehicles for the same money

I don't think First will be selling off any redundant Solos from Bath. The oldest are the Essex ones (02 plate?) so plenty of life left in them, especially when other First subsidiaries are still running V and W reg examples.

Fair points. I didn't realise there were V and W reg solos still kicking around. I think the reason why I thought they would be sold is because they look old. I think the 02 ones need a refurbish. 53102 and 53204 really look tatty.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fair points. I didn't realise there were V and W reg solos still kicking around. I think the reason why I thought they would be sold is because they look old. I think the 02 ones need a refurbish. 53102 and 53204 really look tatty.

Didn't think 53204 looked bad when I saw in on Friday. 53102/3 and 50318 do look shabby though. If you go to Bridgwater then you'll see V and W reg whilst I think Yeovil still have some T reg Solos?

 

[CD]

There is no shortage of buses in Taunton.
Also there is a narrow solo, exchanged in place of the burnt out B6
All 7 of the the B7s are now with bath

Hired P&R Streetlite 55103 worked at least two trips on 22 to Wellington yesterday. Nothing else available.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That makes sense about the Mercs. They're too expensive!

I also agree with you on the BoS stuff.
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Something interesting about the 2 and 4 in Bath. 2 is being cancelled by First, but CT Coaches are going to take it on - that probably won't last too long until they wreck that and First are back on there!!

4 is supposedly also getting another tender for Bathampton. Not sure who - probably CT again.

That will probably mean some of the older solos are sold off. I can't imagine there would be anything else extra left from this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What's 42264? A dart? Did you mean 46264 (the P reg)?

46264 just seen working an X2. Lush!
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Bit off the pace with what's now operating BoS 21. They had 3 ex Plymuff Presidents (32872-4) plus 2 of 4 ex Glasgow Presidents (32866/32930) but what else is working there?

There were supposed to be a couple more Presidents and 3 ALX Tridents, but take it Olyms are still hard at work?

 

[freetoview33]

A few other Bristol changes looks like Wessex 15A is being replaced by a 901 operating from Portway P&R - Clifton (Village+Zoo) - Portway P&R.

505 - Minor timetable change

Two new routes by Citistar

128: Bishop Sutton - Blagdon - Clevedon - Weston (Tuesday Only) and some variation of it 135 only running on Friday.

768: Bath - Timsbury - Radstock - Farrington Gurney


And Webberbus changes from 8th September

27 has been cancelled!
101 Minehead town service is renumbered to 16 (with timetable and route change)
12 some big changes there too by looks of it!

 

[South Westerly]

Hired P&R Streetlite 55103 worked at least two trips on 22 to Wellington yesterday. Nothing else available.

There are eight Streetlites for a PVR of seven, so one being available to operate a 22 doesn't mean they are 'chronically short'. It will always be quicker to send a laying over park and ride vehicle from the bus station to a breakdown or in place of a defected or late bus in the bus station, as they lay over on site.

They certainly aren't short of buses. They already have vehicles in prior to the fleet increase of eight for a week Monday when their extra services start.

 

[THarris123]

Well I've just had another reason to hate 42903. Apart from the constantly rattling (that'll make your teeth fall out) when it stops, it decided to break down at the top of the hill from Chelwood roundabout on the 379 today. It got half way up the hill and nearly fell to pieces, then came to a halt right at the top, causing a fair bit of a traffic jam! The driver did manage to get it started again, but what a load of rubbish! They've got to do something about those Darts on there.

On related news, it looks as though the 178 will change, as both traveline and vosa show that the current 178 timetable has been cancelled as of 30/08. It could mean the 379 being split up from 178, meaning there could be better stuff on there! There's always a possibility!
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There are eight Streetlites for a PVR of seven, so one being available to operate a 22 doesn't mean they are 'chronically short'. It will always be quicker to send a laying over park and ride vehicle from the bus station to a breakdown or in place of a defected or late bus in the bus station, as they lay over on site.

They certainly aren't short of buses. They already have vehicles in prior to the fleet increase of eight for a week Monday when their extra services start.

What are these extra eight vehicles? The B6's?

 

[CD]

There are eight Streetlites for a PVR of seven, so one being available to operate a 22 doesn't mean they are 'chronically short'. It will always be quicker to send a laying over park and ride vehicle from the bus station to a breakdown or in place of a defected or late bus in the bus station, as they lay over on site.

They certainly aren't short of buses. They already have vehicles in prior to the fleet increase of eight for a week Monday when their extra services start.

They would not be short if vehicles never broke down or required routine maintenance. Yesterday 33378,41156,47539, 42825, 42832, 42833, 60914 all receiving attention at the depot. Also recently 3 East Lancs Sprytes have been withdrawn. 42842/43. 34171/76 have vanished and 42841 was working on the 21, a Bridgwater duty.
The newly arrived B6bles are already working every day on existing routes and there are no spares available. When as you say there should be 8 spare vehicles less the 2 coaches for X28 until 27th July.

The four B6 bles from Plymouth are cancelled out by four B7Ls going to Plymouth.
B6bles from Bath:
40588 on 25.
40590 on 4.
40591 on 30.
40592 on 25.
40593 on 22.
40594 on 29.
These are the 6 vehicles that are the enhanced services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well I've just had another reason to hate 42903. Apart from the constantly rattling (that'll make your teeth fall out) when it stops, it decided to break down at the top of the hill from Chelwood roundabout on the 379 today. It got half way up the hill and nearly fell to pieces, then came to a halt right at the top, causing a fair bit of a traffic jam! The driver did manage to get it started again, but what a load of rubbish! They've got to do something about those Darts on there.

On related news, it looks as though the 178 will change, as both traveline and vosa show that the current 178 timetable has been cancelled as of 30/08. It could mean the 379 being split up from 178, meaning there could be better stuff on there! There's always a possibility!
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What are these extra eight vehicles? The B6's?

When was this on 42903. I travelled on it on the 379 at 1549 ex Temple Meads to Knowle. It certainly had excessive idling vibration (but nowhere near that of 44919) but actually had plenty of guts to ascend Wells Road. 42557 which was operating today on 178/379 is truly awful. Climbing out of Dunkerton towards Bath and I formed part of a convoy at 15 mph!

 

[Class 33]

On related news, it looks as though the 178 will change, as both traveline and vosa show that the current 178 timetable has been cancelled as of 30/08. It could mean the 379 being split up from 178, meaning there could be better stuff on there! There's always a possibility!

I've just had a quick look at the current and forthcoming timetables for the 178 & 379 on TravelineSW. And for both services there appears to be no changes to the route and timetable atall on Mondays-Saturdays from what I can see. However from 31st August there will be a better service on Sundays. Instead of there being just a 177 between Bristol and Radstock and a 178 between Bath and Radstock/Midsomer Norton, the 178 will operate the full route between Bristol and Bath. Resulting in an increase in frequency from every 3 hours between Bristol and Radstock to every 1 hour 30 minutes. And with the last 178 leaving Bristol at 1901, rather than the 1731 it is currently.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've just had a quick look at the current and forthcoming timetables for the 178 & 379 on TravelineSW. And for both services there appears to be no changes to the route and timetable atall on Mondays-Saturdays from what I can see. However from 31st August there will be a better service on Sundays. Instead of there being just a 177 between Bristol and Radstock and a 178 between Bath and Radstock/Midsomer Norton, the 178 will operate the full route between Bristol and Bath. Resulting in an increase in frequency from every 3 hours between Bristol and Radstock to every 1 hour 30 minutes. And with the last 178 leaving Bristol at 1901, rather than the 1731 it is currently.

The current service does operate as a through journey but it is a vast improvement on what is/was a tendered service. Whilst good to see, shame the 45min headway (with 173) on Sunday is retained