Greater Anglia staff lied to me?

[liguolong]

In one occasion when I went to London with my girlfriend from Cambridge, I forgot to bring my young person card with me. The staff came and gave me a penalty fare of 41 pound (A ticket without young person's card would cost 20 pound). And the train just started which meant I could probably get down by the next stop and pay a smaller penalty. But, the staff told me that as long as I actually have the railcard, he is sure that I can get a refund and he gave me a full explaination about how to appeal online. So, I paid the full penalty. However, I did exactly as he said, but my appeal declined. After searching on internet I realized it is unlikely I get the refund, and thus the staff has lied to me? I am not sure how to deal with this case as I don't feel good to be scammed by the rail company's own staff.

 

[bb21]

The difficulty is establishing that this is exactly what you were told. In situations like this, it is not unusual for passengers to mishear what staff say. Even if you were misinformed, I doubt you will successfully appeal, as it is difficult to prove that it was indeed what you were told.

Pay the Penalty Fare and remember to being your Railcard with you in the future is all I can advise, unfortunately.

 

[yorkie]

It's not clear to me which Company you travelled with (FCC or Greater Anglia?)

What was the next station? Were you in a position to obtain a replacement Railcard (proof of age, sufficient money, a suitable photograph etc...) at the intermediate station?

Whether they "lied" or not, I cannot say for certain, but I agree it is a possibility. Some Train Companies (e.g. East Midlands Trains) do have a policy of issuing a refund for a one-off first occasion, bit many of the shorter-distance Train Operating Companies in the London & South East area are going to be less forgiving. I do not know what FCC/GA's policy is for certain, but I'm under the impression they do not give refunds under these circumstances.

Some revenue protection inspectors do behave inappropriately, and FCC are one of the worst for this. However I don't think there's anything you, or indeed any of us, can actually do about it. Sorry!

You could complain to Passenger Focus, they're quite good at this sort of complaint, where you are technically in the wrong but the punishment seems harsh. In fact, they prefer that sort of claim to many where the customer is in the right!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

In one occasion when I went to London with my girlfriend from Cambridge, I forgot to bring my young person card with me. The staff came and gave me a penalty fare of 41 pound (A ticket without young person's card would cost 20 pound). And the train just started which meant I could probably get down by the next stop and pay a smaller penalty. But, the staff told me that as long as I actually have the railcard, he is sure that I can get a refund and he gave me a full explaination about how to appeal online. So, I paid the full penalty. However, I did exactly as he said, but my appeal declined. After searching on internet I realized it is unlikely I get the refund, and thus the staff has lied to me? I am not sure how to deal with this case as I don't feel good to be scammed by the rail company's own staff.

My understanding of penalty fares schemes in general is that you should get a penalty fare from your origin to the next station that the train calls at, with the option to buy a new ticket for the rest of the journey from the RPI (Anytime ticket) or get off, buy a new ticket and board the next service. A penalty fare should be double the full single fare for the journey so far made, or £20 if greater.

If the penalty fare was exactly £41, then it looks like they only doubled the Off-Peak Single (Routed 'GRT ANG TRNSONLY' - £20.50) to London, rather than the Anytime Single (£22.60), but without knowing what the next stop was, it's impossible to say what the Penalty Fare should have been.

Not having a Railcard with a Railcard discounted ticket is grounds for a Penalty Fare as I understand it, but you could apply for a refund on that discounted ticket (minus an admin fee) as it has not been used, provided it is no more than 28 days beyond the date on the ticket.

Here i a link to the penalty fares leaflet for Greater Anglia.

I think you have some grounds for complaint, but you might now have to go through Greater Anglia to sort it out.

 

[maniacmartin]

Under section 8.1 of the Penalty Fare Rules, anyone levying a Penalty Fare must inform you of the right to appeal, however that does not necessary mean the appeal will be successful, so it really boils down to exactly what was said.

I agree with hairyhandedfool that we really need to know where you were travelling to, and what the next stop was after you were issued with the Penalty Fare, to give further advice

 

[mono1989]

When I'm issuing at PF I always advise people to send an appeal in. However I always stress that they may or may not win the appeal as it is down to IPFAS for the final outcome.

 

[liguolong]

Hi, thanks for your replies. I was travelling from Cambridge to Liverpool street, it was an Greater Anglia train and by searching the time when the fare was issued, I think the next stop was Harlow Town or Broxbourned. I understand that I should bring my young person card with me, and usually I would just buy ticket with normal price if I do forget. But it was a time when my girlfriend bought the ticket in advance and she was taking care about the travel which resulted in this mistake. Anyway, I was quite sure that the staff told me:"I am sure you will get refunded as long as you actually have the railcard," and my girlfriend understood exactly the same way. My first thought was we need to step down and buy a new ticket, but it was because he said that, I decided to stay on the train and pay the penalty.

 

[RJ]

When I'm issuing at PF I always advise people to send an appeal in. However I always stress that they may or may not win the appeal as it is down to IPFAS for the final outcome.

I used to do Penalty Fares and I never advised anyone to send an appeal in. If there's any chance of a successful appeal, what's the point of issuing the thing in the first place?

I informed people of their right to appeal as per the legislation and left it like that. Saves people getting confused and threads like this appearing on the internet.

 

[TheEdge]

I will always accompany a UFN with "You need to pay within 21 days, you can appeal if you want but I make no promises of the outcome" or something along those lines.

 

[Flamingo]

I will always accompany a UFN with "You need to pay within 21 days, you can appeal if you want but I make no promises of the outcome" or something along those lines.

I just read out the written warnings, and tell them they are signing to say they understand.

 

[Titfield]

Isn't there a danger when advising someone of the right of appeal that they misunderstand you and believe that you have suggested that they appeal the implication being that they have a good case and thus will be successful?

 

[najaB]

The bigger danger lies in NOT advising them of their rights.

 

[mono1989]

I used to do Penalty Fares and I never advised anyone to send an appeal in. If there's any chance of a successful appeal, what's the point of issuing the thing in the first place?

I informed people of their right to appeal as per the legislation and left it like that. Saves people getting confused and threads like this appearing on the internet.

I've found it can help calm down the passengers a little bit, however I don't advise it all the time as it really depends on the situation.

Mods' note: Replies have been split to another thread. For discussion on whether or not this approach is a good one or not, see Why it can be better to defuse a situation by telling a porkie....