No more Travelling Chef on FGW?

[bnm]

The link seems a fairly obvious one in theory- with so little First Class accommodation now there, perhaps it is felt that there is a lack of available spare capacity to operate the travelling chef properly? Passing trade from Standard cannot come and sit down and use the chef if all the seats are occupied by non dining First Class passengers who previously would have been sat elsewhere?

Standard Class passengers have never been able to use the Travelling Chef services to sit in 1st Class. If you are in Standard Class you order TC food at the buffet counter and take it back to your seat. Meals are served in waxed boxes with plastic cutlery. 1st Class passengers get an at seat service with TC food served on a plate with metal cutlery.

Gourmet Burger, Standard Class.
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/TCBurger_zps3e7233e5.jpg

'Have It Your Way' meal, 1st Class.
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/20140605_164156_zps481452df.jpg

For comparison, a centrally prepared and reheated Cheese and Onion Panino:
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/100_1255.jpg

 

[bnm]

The food you can buy at M&S or Little Waitrose at railway stations (or, in Switzerland, the Co-op ) is generally better and cheaper than anything that can be purchased on board the train.

Can I get a full English breakfast on a china plate, with cutlery and condiments from M&S or Waitrose at railway stations?

 

[306024]

Excellent scrambled eggs, smoked salmon, tomato and two toast for £8.50 on the train to Swansea yesterday. Friendly crew, train on time, it was a pleasure to travel. Apparently it is simply too expensive to provide, although there is a lot of scepticism over some of figures being used to justify the withdrawal.

Unfortunately it all looks similar to the loss of dining on the Norwich line, and the reduction in quality on both the ECML and WCML.

 

[Essexman]

'Too expensive to provide' - but have they accounted for the loss on income from people who choose standard rather than first class, or make less journeys, when the catering provision is inferior?

However I have often thought that some staff don't do enough to advertise the Travelling Chef on the train. Too few announcements and not offerred as a better alternative to people asking for usual inferior buffet fare.

 

[306024]

True, hence the scepticism over the figures being suggested to justify the withdrawal.

Couldn't fault the announcements yesterday, the chef was advertised over the PA after every stop.

 

[38Cto15E]

Before it became a Pullman service, the 1206 Paddington to Penzance was a Travelling Chef service and for the first hour or so of the journey the staff were running about the carriages taking orders and delivering food like Usain Bolt.
They worked very hard but were also very helpful,once I bought a bottle of wine from the convenience store at Paddington and when I came to open it on the train I noticed it was a cork bottle, and I had no bottle opener.
The FGW staff obliged after a little chuckle.

I have yet to sample the lunch service, for 3 courses about £40 plus drinkies, it is quite expensive but when comparing it with Railtors/Northern Belle etc, it is not too bad.

Finally, I have often wondered if a company like JD Wetherspoons could make a fist of catering on trains, they make a pretty good job off it.

 

[BestWestern]

Finally, I have often wondered if a company like JD Wetherspoons could make a fist of catering on trains, they make a pretty good job off it.

I've often thought this is an ideal - and shockingly overlooked - solution to the catering issues. A franchise arrangement with a well known and popular name, like 'Spoons, would cause a real stir and surely prove incredibly popular. A selection of their standard menu would seem reasonably adaptable for serving from a galley environment, along with a range of their beers.

 

[dk1]

Finally, I have often wondered if a company like JD Wetherspoons could make a fist of catering on trains, they make a pretty good job off it.

Never works. Companies like that rely on constant trade, not trains with long turnaround times, staff sitting about, poorly loaded trains or failures/disruption let alone paying for upkeep of vehicles.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've often thought this is an ideal - and shockingly overlooked - solution to the catering issues. A franchise arrangement with a well known and popular name, like 'Spoons, would cause a real stir and surely prove incredibly popular. A selection of their standard menu would seem reasonably adaptable for serving from a galley environment, along with a range of their beers.

Storage space would be a nightmare for a start. These ideas a fine until you really look into it. Again constant trade required & trains do not provide that.

 

[Flamingo]

Weatherspoons probably don't pay their managers what the Travelling Chefs or Customer Hosts get, and work their prices out on ten times the turnover.

 

[jimm]

Realignment with demand for First class, lol. It was re-aligned with perceived demand for standard class and then demand for First reduced after the event by the removal of many of the Advance fares on offer. I used to travel First frequently and it was always busy - and there was good availability of good value Advance fares.

The link seems a fairly obvious one in theory- with so little First Class accommodation now there, perhaps it is felt that there is a lack of available spare capacity to operate the travelling chef properly? Passing trade from Standard cannot come and sit down and use the chef if all the seats are occupied by non dining First Class passengers who previously would have been sat elsewhere?

Never mind, more space for the Reading commuters who don't want to walk to the vacant Coach A because it's too far down the platform

What are you on about? Standard class passengers buying travelling chef food have to wait for it at the counter and then take it back to their standard class seat - and on Saturdays, when the crew is just a chef and a buffet steward, first class passengers also have to wait for their food to be cooked. Standard passengers only get a first class seat if they are dining on a Pullman.

This broken record rubbish about Reading commuters and coach A in HSTs is getting really tedious now. There are always a great many people getting out of it at Oxford when HSTs arrive from London of an early evening - or maybe they all got on at Reading? (sarcasm). And you can say the same about HST arriving into Oxford off the Cotswold Line in a morning peak. There may be the odd seat empty, but hardly the wide open prairies that you and Flamingo keep implying is the case.

Instead of hiding behind your computer, can I make a suggestion? That one day you spend the morning and evening peak periods travelling up and down in the Thames Valley, on all sorts of trains, be they Turbos, 180s and HSTs - so you actually understand what is going on there and the sheer number of passengers now travelling, in the context of the train fleet serving the area that, apart from the five 180s returning, the two 150/0s for Basingstoke runs and a limited number of extra HST trailers, has hardly changed since 2008.

Even if you persuade a few people standing in coach E to move to A - should there be any seats there - that is not actually going to solve the wider problem of rising demand for rail travel, nor does it get away from the fact that the volume of first class travel required to justify lots of first class seats is not there any more, except perhaps on a handful of peak services. Most of the day, on many FGW services, there is gross over-provision - which is why there have been lots of those first advances you like being offered, to help fill them - as I've said elsewhere, if there was a steady stream of people paying full whack for first class tickets, then the seats would be staying in the HSTs. That may say something about the level first class fares are at now, but many standard fares in the peaks aren't exactly bargain-basement either.

Getting back on topic, I would agree with much of what has been said above about problems with the Travelling Chef service, which have probably done nothing to make the numbers look good, including erratic provision, with lack of a chef or broken kitchen equipment often cited, ingredients running out some mornings, and the lack of marketing of Travelling Chef generally - or even on-board announcements on occasion, although the menus are out when you get to the buffet.

 

[yorksrob]

With yield management, there shouldn't be any over provosion of first class accomodation, regardless of how many carriages there are. Empty first class carriages mean they've not got the pricing differential quite right.

 

[Be3G]

Actually, the marketing thing is a good point. I remember the last time I travelled on a Travelling Chef service – deciding before boarding that I'd use it rather than buying something from the station – I was very disappointed to hear not a single announcement about it. So I trudged up to the buffet thinking the best I could hope for was a pre-packed sarnie, but as it turned out, the chef had been there all along. Hardly the best way of encouraging its success.

(Just a thought: I wonder if FGW limit announcements about the chef if there're enough orders coming in via the first class hosts to keep him/her busy?)

 

[jimm]

With yield management, there shouldn't be any over provosion of first class accomodation, regardless of how many carriages there are. Empty first class carriages mean they've not got the pricing differential quite right.

What do you think all the first advance fares are? Yield management! But they are having to use them to fill the seats much of the day/week, not just occasionally. Apart from a limited number of peak services, the full-fare demand is not there.

The whole point of first is that it is a premium product and if people won't pay (or more to the point, their bosses won't any more), then using artificial pricing methods, when you are struggling to handle the number of passengers paying standard fares who would like a seat, doesn't make much sense. It's a bit different from moving the curtain up and down on an airliner...

 

[Techniquest]

I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread, but I'm well gutted the Travelling Chef is going. I used to use it very regularly, but I don't get to travel on FGW very often these days. No idea what services have a Travelling Chef these days. I have good memories of cruising along on a Hereford to Paddington HST on the daily morning direct service (0710 or so at the time at least) on Saturdays, enjoying a freshly cooked bacon baguette from the Travelling Chef. Even had it served at seat in First Class on one occasion!

Interesting the Pullman service is returning to South Wales, about darn time as I used to be very much a regular on the lunchtime Pullman out of Swansea. I'd even plan to leave a little later and get on it especially. I dread to think how much money I spent on that service, but wow those mixed grills were amazing!

 

[yorksrob]

What do you think all the first advance fares are? Yield management! But they are having to use them to fill the seats much of the day/week, not just occasionally. Apart from a limited number of peak services, the full-fare demand is not there.

The whole point of first is that it is a premium product and if people won't pay (or more to the point, their bosses won't any more), then using artificial pricing methods, when you are struggling to handle the number of passengers paying standard fares who would like a seat, doesn't make much sense. It's a bit different from moving the curtain up and down on an airliner...

On many InterCity services, first is quite busy even at obscure times of the week because (at the risk of sounding like Lesley Crowther) they ensure that the price is right to attract punters for that particular time. There will always be people prepared to upgrade. It's just that different markets bear a different price differential.

 

[Flamingo]

This broken record rubbish about Reading commuters and coach A in HSTs is getting really tedious now.

Agreed. Making the same announcements on the same trains to the same people every day does get tedious.

I overheard two guys amongst the twenty or so standing around the buffet last week as we were leaving London (I'd told them both to leave the First Class vestibules about five minutes before departure), one said to the other as I walked past - "There he goes, in a few minutes we'll have another announcement telling us there are seats at the other end of the train, he always does that!".

Anyway, this has nowt to do with the Travelling Chef, except that if we gave a free Bacon Baguette to every commuter travelling from Reading every morning half of them would find something to complain about with it!

Maybe we need a thread split, and open a new one for Reading commuters to tell everybody how hard done by they are.

Out of curiousity, is there any other town within the same distance of London (or other major UK city) that has a comparable rail link in terms of timing, frequency and price? Genuine question, off my own patch I don't know a lot about other lines.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Whether or not there is loads of space in Coach A or not doesn't matter much. If you look at how passengers loading onto services at Reading, Didcot, Newbury etc, they all stand round the middle of the platform. A much smaller percentage is at the rear compared to at the front. Given we are constantly told there are very few first class paying passengers the following conclusions can be made:

1. They value sitting/standing closest to the exit more than sitting in comfort in Coach A (it's a fallacy of course. I can get off the back and walk past them quicker than they can often pile off, such is the level of loading on occasion). If this is the case then their complaints are unfounded. If you insist on doing something, complaining about is a little absurd.

2. Given the low level of first class patronage, the nunber of people that board that section would suggest they don't have a first class ticket abd are just hoping not to be checked.

Back to topic, I would be most sad to see the Travelling Chef go. I have always used it on my frequent journeys to the West Country. Comparing the pre made bacon baguette with the Travelling Chef one is like comparing chalk and cheese. The normal stuff needs vastly improving. The coffee isn't bad though! I will not buy the normal stuff. I only visit the buffet especially if the Travelling Chef is on. I don't bother otherwise.

 

[jimm]

On many InterCity services, first is quite busy even at obscure times of the week because (at the risk of sounding like Lesley Crowther) they ensure that the price is right to attract punters for that particular time. There will always be people prepared to upgrade. It's just that different markets bear a different price differential.

You don't say. I do understand the basic concept of yield management, thanks. No point repeating what I have said about the realities down here in FGW-land - maybe you should join Goatboy for a day in the Thames Valley.

 

[yorksrob]

You don't say. I do understand the basic concept of yield management, thanks. No point repeating what I have said about the realities down here in FGW-land - maybe you should join Goatboy for a day in the Thames Valley.

Well hark at you. If you know any thing at all, you will know that there is simply no need for first on an InterCity train to be empty. Why do you think I need a trip down to Greayt Western land when you yourself made the observation that first is often empty ? Perhaps you're just not very good at obsrving things.

 

[CC 72100]

That one day you spend the morning and evening peak periods travelling up and down in the Thames Valley, on all sorts of trains, be they Turbos, 180s and HSTs - so you actually understand what is going on there and the sheer number of passengers now travelling, in the context of the train fleet serving the area that, apart from the five 180s returning, the two 150/0s for Basingstoke runs and a limited number of extra HST trailers, has hardly changed since 2008.

To be honest, if your point is that for well-used services, there has been not much capacity increase since 2008, (I'm guessing it is, right?) then that doesn't sound that much different to other part of the FGW network....

I mean come and spend a day on the Devon metro services, or on a packed Sprinter through Cornwall. Whilst everything may be on a smaller scale in terms of passenger numbers, your point of overcrowding with not much capacity increase since '08 still stands, even if we're talking about less people, as in the South West there are of course less trains than the Thames commuter belt.

 

[jimm]

Agreed. Making the same announcements on the same trains to the same people every day does get tedious.

I overheard two guys amongst the twenty or so standing around the buffet last week as we were leaving London (I'd told them both to leave the First Class vestibules about five minutes before departure), one said to the other as I walked past - "There he goes, in a few minutes we'll have another announcement telling us there are seats at the other end of the train, he always does that!".

Anyway, this has nowt to do with the Travelling Chef, except that if we gave a free Bacon Baguette to every commuter travelling from Reading every morning half of them would find something to complain about with it!

Maybe we need a thread split, and open a new one for Reading commuters to tell everybody how hard done by they are.

Out of curiousity, is there any other town within the same distance of London (or other major UK city) that has a comparable rail link in terms of timing, frequency and price? Genuine question, off my own patch I don't know a lot about other lines.

Agreed - has nothing to do with Travelling Chef's future, except that one of the people who keeps banging on about first class informed us that it did, presumably as part of some sinister conspiracy against people buying first advances, which would not be offered anyway if there was a consistently high demand for full-fare first class travel.

There are already dozens of threads where you and others keep telling us that Coach A on FGW HSTs is empty - not on the trains I use it isn't, or maybe they all only travel in there west of Reading, then think, 'it must be time to get up and stand in the middle of the train' and move forward - just to annoy you...

Whether or not there is loads of space in Coach A or not doesn't matter much. If you look at how passengers loading onto services at Reading, Didcot, Newbury etc, they all stand round the middle of the platform. A much smaller percentage is at the rear compared to at the front.

Which may have something to do with the location of footbridges, subways, gatelines, etc and lack of information to encourage people to move down the platforms. At Oxford, efforts are made with announcements, which do have some effect, and markings on the platforms, though these aren't much help with a crowded platform.

Well hark at you. If you know any thing at all, you will know that there is simply no need for first on an InterCity train to be empty. Why do you think I need a trip down to Greayt Western land when you yourself made the observation that first is often empty ? Perhaps you're just not very good at obsrving things.

You seem to be the one that thinks you can fix everything with a bit of fares manipulation. Well sorry, no, you can't. The reason that I suggest you need to visit the Thames Valley is to see the sheer numbers now travelling in the peaks on FGW services. If you don't want to make the trip, think overcrowding on Leeds services in the peaks, and scale it up a lot - even allowing for bigger trains and higher frequencies.

To be honest, if your point is that for well-used services, there has been not much capacity increase since 2008, (I'm guessing it is, right?) then that doesn't sound that much different to other part of the FGW network....

Just so. The little extra capacity added in the Thames Valley in 2011 was soaked up fast by the continuing growth in traffic, same as the extra 150s in the West Country were largely finger in the dyke stuff - much as converting some first class accommodation in HSTs to standard is, at the end of the day, but standing still is not an option.

Thames Valley electrification, with the promise of 12-car GW emu formations for the peaks, plus Crossrail and IEPs, can't come soon enough. I suspect that a lot of those frightful Reading commuters will be tempted off the intercities by the promise of frequent 12-car 110/115mph emus that go almost as fast as an IEP, with lots of seats for them, than packing into near-full of full long-distance trains. At present, the alternatives to HSTs (rammed Turbos, interspersed with the odd rammed 180) between Reading and London do nothing to attract people off the expresses, even if they do have to stand (and whinge) all the way.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Not when ETCS is launched and IEP goes 140 MPH. Why would you get a limited stop 110 MPH EMU in 40 minutes when you can get there in 25 or under? If anything it will make Reading, Didcot, Oxford, Swindon, Newbury and the like much more attractive commuter towns and cities, increasing demand for services and eroding that spare capacity very quickly. Not to mention making house prices yet more unaffordable in these areas (Swindon excepted). I feel it will be a rather short honeymoon period. I just hope they have factored in this possibility. Otherwise they are going to end up with overcrowding much worse and more quickly than anticipated.

 

[455driver]

I wonder if it is anything to do with the IEP having the galley in the 1st class driving coach meaning standard class passengers would have to walk through 1st to order their food?
Remove the chefs now and get all the flak out the way so that by the time IEP is rolled out (with its standard class trolleys) everyone would have forgotten about the chefs and would not associate the 2 things because of the time between them!

 

[Flamingo]

Jimm, I'm not saying coach A is empty on every train every day, but with a few exceptions (off-peak "shoulder" trains being the worst), it is far from being as bad as Reading commuters would have you believe. I see the trains every day, and I walk the length of them, clicker in hand, counting the heads.

The problem, on most trains, is a combination of poor loading pattern and perception. And I do think that FGW could do more to improve both.

Personally, I'm pleased to see Std class going up to 6 - 6 1/2 carriages - but I don't think that this will improve either the loading pattern OR the perception.

I've lots of anecdotal evidence based on many years observing - I do think about the job - and this constant complaint that nobody travelling between London and Reading can ever get a seat does not go with what I see with my own eyes on most trains I work. Sorry.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wonder if it is anything to do with the IEP having the galley in the 1st class driving coach meaning standard class passengers would have to walk through 1st to order their food?
Remove the chefs now and get all the flak out the way so that by the time IEP is rolled out (with its standard class trolleys) everyone would have forgotten about the chefs and would not associate the 2 things because of the time between them!

Nail - head (throw in some homage to McNulty, as the Travelling Chef, indeed the whole catering side is little more than a money sink - sorry, but that's the truth).

 

[Blindtraveler]

I still dont get how in hell they think passengers will be happy with a trolleyload of tepid drinks, unchilled beersh look warm teas and coffees and little in the way of propper food on a journey from London to Penzance or York to Inverness? Where does this thinking come from? Granted it happens on XC but punters generally make shorter trips than your average user of IEP will.↲

 

[455driver]

I still dont get how in hell they think passengers will be happy with a trolleyload of tepid drinks, unchilled beersh look warm teas and coffees and little in the way of propper food on a journey from London to Penzance or York to Inverness? Where does this thinking come from? Granted it happens on XC but punters generally make shorter trips than your average user of IEP will.↲

From the accountants that run the railways!

 

[Essexman]

Recieved two tweets from FGW this afternoon -

'Travelling Chef isn't financially viable based on current use. We will be able to enhance the offering in the buffet. Ollie'

'We're increasing the number of Pullman services, there will be a wider range of high quality hot/cold food from the buffet.'

 

[455driver]

Yeah one extra return Pullman train, 24 travelling chef trains withdrawn!

 

[yorksrob]

You seem to be the one that thinks you can fix everything with a bit of fares manipulation. Well sorry, no, you can't. The reason that I suggest you need to visit the Thames Valley is to see the sheer numbers now travelling in the peaks on FGW services. If you don't want to make the trip, think overcrowding on Leeds services in the peaks, and scale it up a lot - even allowing for bigger trains and higher frequencies.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with overall capacity (I have a commuting friend that can attest that services out of Paddington are crowded). All I am saying is that there is simply no need to have empty first class carriages.

Either first class well used all the time, in which case the price differential is broadly correct, or as you suggest in your post, first class is often nearly empty, in which case, the price differential isn't correct. Which is it ?

 

[bnm]

Such a shame that this topic about FGW catering provision has been hijacked by folk with an axe to grind about seating capacity.

Is there any chance we can go back to discussing the withdrawal of Travelling Chef?