Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[jon0844]

Quite happy about Hatfield being a station staffed from first to last trains, as well as the general progress of the station upgrade happening now. And if Oyster is extended at last, that's awesome. No more faffing with paper tickets ever again!

 

[fusionblue]

Apart from a single stub about "southeastern joint services included" there is little else except for:

"the existing complex Thameslink pattern will be replaced by
a regular all-day pattern of 2tph to/from Sevenoaks (all day,
via the Catford Loop) and 2tph to/from Maidstone East (in
the peaks and limited off-peak hours, with a more limited
calling pattern);"

"First to last station staffing will be introduced at Denmark Hill,
Elephant and Castle, Loughborough Junction and Nunhead
– as part of plans to provide first to last staffing at the 101
busiest stations on the GTR franchise."

So very nearly nothing (or simply nothing) changes to how it is today.

 

[Bald Rick]

Apart from a single stub about "southeastern joint services included" there is little else except for:

"the existing complex Thameslink pattern will be replaced by
a regular all-day pattern of 2tph to/from Sevenoaks (all day,
via the Catford Loop) and 2tph to/from Maidstone East (in
the peaks and limited off-peak hours, with a more limited
calling pattern);"

"First to last station staffing will be introduced at Denmark Hill,
Elephant and Castle, Loughborough Junction and Nunhead
– as part of plans to provide first to last staffing at the 101
busiest stations on the GTR franchise."

So very nearly nothing (or simply nothing) changes to how it is today.

So apart from the additional staffing, newly consistent Sevenoaks service, completely new Maidstone East services (which is very nearly all day from 0700-1900), and a brand new train fleet.... What has the new franchise done for us?

 

[Saint66]

Quite happy about Hatfield being a station staffed from first to last trains, as well as the general progress of the station upgrade happening now. And if Oyster is extended at last, that's awesome. No more faffing with paper tickets ever again!

The last time Oyster was looked at as a payment type on Thameslink/GN Hertfordshire stations, wasn't it Herts Council that turned it down? Or is my mind playing tricks?

 

[fusionblue]

Additional staffing - which anything south of Nunhead doesn't get.
Newly consistent sevenoaks service - its been an even 2tph since before the thameslink project began - except in peak/shoulder-peak hours.
New maidstone service - it's "limited stop" so logic would dictate Elephant, Denmark Hill or Peckham Rye then fast to Bromley.

And lastly the new train fleet is a requirement as a project as a whole, and the units are still 8 coaches. So it's still like-for-like exactly as it is now.

It's hard to view it as an improvement when - running on purely metrics alone - a 0% increase in train length or frequency is nowhere near to being an improvement.

(Assuming that maidstone service doesnt surprise me!)

 

[Fred26]

It's good to see we'll have 2tph from Hertford to Stevenage from May next year.
I'm also very pleased with the extra staff that'll be coming in at stations shortly. I know some people don't like barriers, but it means gateline staff at Hornsey, Alexandra Palace and others. The staff presence is great news for passengers.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's hard to view it as an improvement when - running on purely metrics alone - a 0% increase in train length or frequency is nowhere near to being an improvement.

That depends on the metrics you use. You could say that by 2018 the average fleet age in use on the line will fall from 29 years to 1 year. That's an improvement that most of the north of England would like to see.

Or, passengers from Bromley South, Swanley etc, will see a 100% improvement in frequency to the Thameslink core for most of the day.

 

[Aictos]

I see Crews Hill is getting a TVM - only reason it doesn't at the moment is because it kept getting vandalised hence why journeys from there cannot incur a PF so like to know why Govia think they can supply one and First cannot :/

I'm happy that the GN Inners are seeing Oyster/The Key being extended which is a good thing other then that it looks quite promising

 

[fusionblue]

I do agree the north does need a younger more nippy fleet. No disagreement from me.

It's still faster for me to go via london bridge; the feeling i continue to get when reading these documents (concerning the catford and even wimbledon loops) is "more of the same". The provisional timetable and elsewhere dangled the carrot of Bellingham to Victoria/TL-Core services and they both have disappeared without trace.

Are the Bellingham sidings going to be used for anything?

 

[Aictos]

It's good to see we'll have 2tph from Hertford to Stevenage from May next year.
I'm also very pleased with the extra staff that'll be coming in at stations shortly. I know some people don't like barriers, but it means gateline staff at Hornsey, Alexandra Palace and others. The staff presence is great news for passengers.

Where did it say that regards 2tph on Stevenage to Hertford?

Yes extra staff will be good BUT regards to gatelines they need to be manned for longer during the week and also manned at weekends with staff having access to a ticket machine they can use to sell tickets especially if the booking office is busy or is closed.

 

[Fred26]

Where did it say that regards 2tph on Stevenage to Hertford?

It's mentioned in the PDF posted above, specific to the GN.

 

[jon0844]

All front facing staff to get tablets too, which should work well thanks to WiFi being installed at many stations that don't already have it.

Ultimately though, not everything can change.

 

[Fincra5]

377's for the trains to Kings Lynn... where are these ones coming from now? 377/5s?

 

[Clip]

377's for the trains to Kings Lynn... where are these ones coming from now? 377/5s?

No, its a brand new order just to anoy our friends in the north

 

[physics34]

377's for the trains to Kings Lynn... where are these ones coming from now? 377/5s?

you would think so, they will be surplus when the 387s come into service.

 

[bicbasher]

More on Oyster PAYG extensions.

Aiming to extend Oyster Pay As You Go (PAYG), in partnership with TfL and other TOCs, as far as Epsom, Gatwick Airport, Luton Airport, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North, covering all our Metro services and thetwo major London airports

 

[JonathanH]

More on Oyster PAYG extensions.

Quote:
Aiming to extend Oyster Pay As You Go (PAYG), in partnership with TfL and other TOCs, as far as Epsom, Gatwick Airport, Luton Airport, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North, covering all our Metro services and the two major London airports

It will be interesting to see whether the extension of Oyster PAYG to Epsom will require the installation of a interchange reader at Raynes Park or Surbiton for a cheaper fare not leaving the London zones.

Is the service beyond Epsom not a "Metro" service?

 

[swt_passenger]

What does Brighton mainline re-casting mean?

It's the term that the industry often uses when they undertake a major revision to a network's whole timetable, sometimes resulting in every service having its timings altered to some extent, and origin - destinations pairs and calling patterns changed.

They only come round once in a while, such as the 2004 recast of the SWT network - allegedly the first major change since the 1960s.

In this case the major point is that FCC and Southern are no longer competing on London to Brighton as independent operators, so the allocation of trains to services can be looked at as a whole, and calls and times optimised.

 

[jon0844]

With the reduced competition, the new timetable will see 3tpd from London to Brighton, using Pacers.

 

[tsr]

With the reduced competition, the new timetable will see 3tpd from London to Brighton, using Pacers.

I've used both Pacers and 319s. I almost prefer the Pacers! But they'd be a tad slow and, um, get a bit overcrowded in the rush hour...

 

[Aictos]

It's mentioned in the PDF posted above, specific to the GN.

I didn't see any mention other then from December 2015 that Inner Suburban services via Hertford North will start/terminate at Stevenage instead of Letchworth :/

 

[fusionblue]

With the reduced competition, the new timetable will see 3tpd from London to Brighton, using Pacers.

I don't know why they just didn't build 376's - with the rock hard seating that encourages people to stand and no hand rails - instead of the 700s

 

[Fred26]

I didn't see any mention other then from December 2015 that Inner Suburban services via Hertford North will start/terminate at Stevenage instead of Letchworth :/

It's on the second page. In the same point about HFN trains going to 4tph off peak.

 

[Deerfold]

It will be interesting to see whether the extension of Oyster PAYG to Epsom will require the installation of a interchange reader at Raynes Park or Surbiton for a cheaper fare not leaving the London zones.

A cheaper fare between where?

 

[Aictos]

It's on the second page. In the same point about HFN trains going to 4tph off peak.

Yes from MAY 2018 my learnt friend, next date we will see improvements is DEC 2015 when Moorgate see extended operating hours.

One question for Bald Rick, Class 377/5 and SWT Passenger though as The Key/Oyster is being extended from September 2015 is there a franchise commitment to introduce smartcard passes for employees as Scotrail have done?

 

[Fred26]

Oh yes, so it is. Oops.

 

[JonathanH]

A cheaper fare between where?

Oops - stations on the two lines to Epsom through Ewell West and Ewell East (although I suspect people might make some such journeys by bus or even on foot)

And maybe the existing pink reader at Wimbledon would be more appropriate also! One at Surbiton would certainly not be useful and making people get off at Raynes Park is also somewhat unhelpful

 

[Aictos]

Oh yes, so it is. Oops.

No worries, I can see you're excited about Govia coming in

 

[davetheguard]

The last time Oyster was looked at as a payment type on Thameslink/GN Hertfordshire stations, wasn't it Herts Council that turned it down? Or is my mind playing tricks?

More likely to have been the DfT.

First Great Western wanted to extend Oyster card acceptance from the Greater London boundary station of West Drayton to stations further west that were likely to be used for sailing events at the 2012 Olympics - but DfT said no.

 

[bicbasher]

Govia are also introducing Advance singles as common on Southern across Thameslink/GN.