Cornwall and Liverpool investment

[infobleep]

One could argue, why bother refreshing them. Just wait until the next franchise and put in conditions then.

Of course may be they have decided there is no economic benefits to creating coaching stock like those to be used up to Scotland.

 

[The Planner]

Possibly so, but only if they've got the resources available to do the work in the desired timescale!

That is a truly massive problem that is going to cause more issues than it does now soon, a distinct lack of signal installation and testing staff.

I know of at least one resignalling scheme that's almost certain to be postponed for the foreseeable future (and well beyond the current control period) because it can't be justified if substantial further work will then be required for ERTMS.

Which one? Is there GSM-R on the Cornwall side of Plymouth as ERTMS won't get a sniff until there is.

 

[83G/84D]

The longest blocks are all controlled under 'absolute block' regulations. The resignalling presumably mean 'track circuit block' throughout Cornwall with either track circuits, or more likely axle counters, used for train detection. That means that signal blocks won't be dictated by the location of the signal boxes, necessary to observe that a train is complete after leaving an absolute block section, any more. That should allow more signals to be installed to break up the sections more. If the resignalling just replaces the current signals and blocks like for like with new signals and detection by axle counters, which would probably be the cheapest option, then the benefits are obviously going to be pretty limited.

An ERTMS type of signalling is being considered but the existing mechanical signalling and associated signal boxes will be abolished and control transferred to Didcot IF this happens as planned. Dates & funding are subject to change.

GSM-R is operational on most of the Western route including the whole of Devon and Cornwall.
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The main reason for the Night Riviera & Long Rock upgrade is in essence down to the planned retreat from OOC depot happening over the next few years. This being down to the IEP Maintenance being spread across several new depots and subcontracted out to Hitachi - who's London base will be in the former North Pole Depot across the GWML, and because of the proposed OOC HS2 Station site and associated construction works. So as part of the project, the Night Riviera will be reallocated to Long Rock Depot - The first time anything has been allocated out of Long Rock for a very long time, where upon the depot site is to be heavily upgraded with newer maintenance facilities for the rolling stock and 57s, Ponsandine Sidings will be flattened and amalgamated into Long Rock, where upon the depot will also gain a Wheel Lathe and expanded sidings.

As for the Night Riviera Sleeper itself, FGW Has for a while had a mock up prepared in Bristol which has been used in consultation with the various authorities along the route - most notably Cornwall County Council who have part funded the extra SLEP And TSO-D that have been used as the trail coaches for the project and will most likely be the first out in service. The Mk3s used as the day coaches - RFM/TSO/TSO-D & BFO are to gain the ex First Class seats from FGWs HST TFs and IIRC power sockets at last. They are also currently undergoing WIFI Fitment and the first 3 Mk3s have now been fitted with this at Long Rock.

The Penzance to Totnes signalling upgrades are also very much welcomed as well, something that has been needed for a while and should happen when the 166s arrive from Reading after the TV upgrade and electrification.

It's also interesting to note that this has come a day after the majority of the class 57/3s were reallocated over to Direct Rail Services - Now giving DRS 57301 up to 57312. So we may also be seeing more DRS & Network Rail 57s appearing on the Night Riviera over the next few years as well as the FGW fleet.

I was told that NOTHING is at presently decided as regards train cascades on the Western yet. We can speculate all we like, and will, but no-one yet knows what will happen this includes the TOC's/ Network Rail / DfT / Councils etc so don't read too much into anything.

 

[TEW]

Which one? Is there GSM-R on the Cornwall side of Plymouth as ERTMS won't get a sniff until there is.

Yes, GSM-R has been live in Cornwall for quite a while now. The masts for GSM-R coverage were installed years ago.

 

[infobleep]

Is Cornwall the last mainline to have semaphore signaling?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Is Cornwall the last mainline to have semaphore signaling?

Jump onto the 12 noon HST departure from Kings Cross !

[The Highland Main Line has plenty semaphonres]

 

[RPI]

GSM-R isn't operational in all of Devon and Cornwall, Coleford Junction to Meldon isn't covered and I believe a mobile phone is used?

 

[Llanigraham]

Is Cornwall the last mainline to have semaphore signaling?

Well if you consider the Marches line to be a main line, no.

 

[krus_aragon]

Well if you consider the Marches line to be a main line, no.

Nor the North Wales Coast (Abergele).

 

[infobleep]

Jump onto the 12 noon HST departure from Kings Cross !

[The Highland Main Line has plenty semaphonres]

Well if you consider the Marches line to be a main line, no.

Nor the North Wales Coast (Abergele).

Thanks for the replies. Interesting. I use to get my regular fix of seeing semaphore signals in use when I travelled to Harrow using the Overground/Underground. All on sidings of course.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Their Mk3 refurb seems to be more of a 'refresh' than what would have been required for the Caledonian franchise, which would have required cabins to be knocked through to provide at least some en-suite accomodation. If nothing structural is happening to the trains, especially if they aren't properly being 'Chilternised' with power doors etc, then a proper stock replacement may still be in order in the time after CAF are finished with the Serco order bur are still willing to build more of the same.

 

[Grumpy]

Serco has a 15-year franchise for the Caley sleepers though.
FGW only has a franchise up to 2016.
To make a big investment you need a longer franchise.

So do you really think the decision on the future of the WoE sleeper will be made by some Franchise holder? Of course it wont, the future will be determined by DfT.

The length of franchises was wholly irrelevant to the decision to proceed with IEP.

 

[infobleep]

Perhaps they feel the type of person who travels to Cornwall doesn't like or need en-suit bedrooms. Perhaps the passengers prefer showers at the stations.

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps the passengers prefer showers at the stations.

Other than at Paddington there aren't any showers at present.

 

[fgwrich]

An ERTMS type of signalling is being considered but the existing mechanical signalling and associated signal boxes will be abolished and control transferred to Didcot IF this happens as planned. Dates & funding are subject to change.

GSM-R is operational on most of the Western route including the whole of Devon and Cornwall.
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I was told that NOTHING is at presently decided as regards train cascades on the Western yet. We can speculate all we like, and will, but no-one yet knows what will happen this includes the TOC's/ Network Rail / DfT / Councils etc so don't read too much into anything.

Maybe so, but what is on the cards at the moment is 165/6s on the mainline services that is. The 150/153 fleet will still see use on the branches and Hayle viaduct will receive work including gauging work this November - this is being done to clear the Turbos into Penzance and will mean more steam into PZ aswell. All the upgrade works on the Cornish Mainline will be done with the Turbo Fleet in mind, and on the likely basis that the 165s stay around Bristol, with the 166 Fleet working down into Devon and Cornwall on the mainline services. As are the Half Hourly timetables being designed with their better acceleration and top speed in mind. Speculation or nothing announced, but everything is being designed around the Turbos including timetables, infrastructure and Long Rock upgrades, FGW & the relevant bodies are after the Turbos, so I think it's fair to say that the Turbos will be covering the Great Western down to the West Country within the next few years from Bristol to Penzance. Now I'd be very surprised if they didn't go there given the investment!

 

[Grumpy]

Perhaps they feel the type of person who travels to Cornwall doesn't like or need en-suit bedrooms. Perhaps the passengers prefer showers at the stations.

Perhaps if the West of England was about to vote whether to stay in the UK the London politicians might throw money away at it like they do for Scotland.

 

[terryc]

<snip>

£14.4m upgrade of car parking and public transport access at Newton-Le-Willows

<snip>
Can anyone put any meat on the bones as to what this actually means?
OK, there has been a recent car park built to the south of the station for (I think) about 80 spaces. That's now full by around 7-30am, and traffic is again parked on the surrounding streets. So where (and when) will the new parking manifest itself?
Also, what is meant by public transport access upgrade? Is this additional trains, buses or both?
Cheers

 

[fgwrich]

<snip><snip>
Can anyone put any meat on the bones as to what this actually means?
OK, there has been a recent car park built to the south of the station for (I think) about 80 spaces. That's now full by around 7-30am, and traffic is again parked on the surrounding streets. So where (and when) will the new parking manifest itself?
Also, what is meant by public transport access upgrade? Is this additional trains, buses or both?
Cheers

I'm not that familiar with the design of Newton station but it would presume that the public transport upgrade would cover anything from better bus access and interchange, disabled access upgrades, lifts and new bridges etc... As for the car parking, you might end up seeing a double deck Car Park being installed as what is happening to several stations down here in the south like Winchester for example.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Because details about the refurbishment were reasonably hard to find, and those details would indicate the length of time the refurbished carriages were expected to work (and thus if a CAF add-on order were likely), I asked the DfT and this is what they said:

Thank you for your enquiry of 1 August, to the Department for Transport, regarding accessibility improvements to the Riviera sleeper. I have been asked to reply.

I understand that the planned scope of works to the Riviera sleeper fleet includes carrying out the work necessary for these vehicles to operate after 31 December 2019, by which time all rail vehicles must be accessible. This includes the provision – for the first time – of wheelchair accessible sleeping accommodation, and wheelchair accessible toilets in both the sleeping and day coaches.

I do not believe that the fitment of power operated doors is within the scope of works – this is not a requirement of the Technical Specification for Interoperability for Persons of Reduced Mobility (PRM TSI), nor is it required before vehicles can operate after 2019.

While fitting power operated doors to similar vehicles has been carried out successfully elsewhere, this would add considerably to the cost of the refurbishment. You would need to approach Cornwall County Council, which I understand is funding the work to the sleeper, to establish whether power operated doors could also be included.

 

[TheWalrus]

How much is the time saving expected to be between Totnes and Penzance?

 

[class26]

How much is the time saving expected to be between Totnes and Penzance?

and how will it be saved ?

Will the re signalling allow more local services so making it possible for express trains to skip stops or will line speeds be raised ?
Maybe a bit of both ?

 

[fgwrich]

and how will it be saved ?

Will the re signalling allow more local services so making it possible for express trains to skip stops or will line speeds be raised ?
Maybe a bit of both ?

That is one of the eventual intentions, to make a hourly and potentially half hourly pattern along the Cornish mainline. One of the ways this will be done is with closer signalling spacing - some of the longest gaps at the moment along there are between St Erth and I think Par, with the longest being between Camborne and Truro. As much as I like the sight of semaphores, it's sadly time to go and allow modern methods to take control.

 

[Tomnick]

As above - the provision of IB signals would (relatively easily) split the longest sections in two. They've been installed on the Settle & Carlisle, with a similar threat of resignalling fairly soon - so full resignalling isn't the only answer, if the justification and will is there to do it sooner.