Isle of Wight class 483's

[ExRes]

Why bother, it's already got 3rd rail?

And I thought we were coming into the 21st century way of doing things, DC is old fashioned on todays standards, therefore it should be done away with as quickly as possible whether it's efficient or not

and I forgot about the 3rd rail

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could some floodgates be installed at either end of the tunnel or would that not be financially viable?

 

[40129]

Re any tramway proposals. IIRC the maximum gradient that trams can handle is around 10% (1:10)

No idea of gradients on the island

 

[Monty]

I wonder if the money was ever there for new build, if a modified S stock design would meet the clearance restrictions?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I wonder if the money was ever there for new build, if a modified S stock design would meet the clearance restrictions?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/richardandgill/4125576418/

Looking at that if they would fit it'd probably be a very close fit. Wikipedia doesn't list the height of the s stock but lists the height of the current IoW stock 9 ft 5 1⁄2 in (2.883 m)

 

[sprinterguy]

I wonder if the money was ever there for new build, if a modified S stock design would meet the clearance restrictions?

If by “modified” you consider something similar to the Victoria line 2009 stock (Also a part of Bombardier’s Movia family of trains) then it might work. They’re the same height as the 1938 stock, at least. S-stock in their current form would be a no-go as the 1938 stock are former deep tube stock built to a more restrictive loading gauge while the S-stock take advantage of the far more generous loading gauge of the surface lines: The A and C stock that preceded them were reportedly 3.68 metres in height, compared to 2.883 metres for both the 1938 and Victoria line 2009 stock.

 

[jopsuk]

I wonder if the money was ever there for new build, if a modified S stock design would meet the clearance restrictions?

Assuming S-Stock are the same height as the A-Stock, they're all of 10cm shorter than a Class 378 (or any other electrostar)

 

[colchesterken]

Whoever is in charge seems to have missed the boat, loads of underground stock has gone for scrap.
thay could have picked the best of the victoria line or northern line stock and converted them in the same way as they have done before, and in view of the cheap price (scrap price) they could have kept some spares
Why do we always seem to miss chances

 

[dosxuk]

Whoever is in charge seems to have missed the boat, loads of underground stock has gone for scrap.
thay could have picked the best of the victoria line or northern line stock and converted them in the same way as they have done before, and in view of the cheap price (scrap price) they could have kept some spares
Why do we always seem to miss chances

IIRC the Victoria line 67 stock was deemed inappropriate because of the ATO, right hand driving and age / condition - the decent remaining bits already retained by LU to supplement the Bakerloo.

The Northern 59's likewise were in very poor condition, and not much younger than the 38's that are already on the island.

The plan seems to have been for 73 stock for a while, the replacement of which on LU has been planned for years now. I'm sure early 2010's were mentioned originally, which would have fitted in quite well with the need to replace the 38's, coupled with the 73's reputation for reliability.

 

[Chris125]

I wonder if the money was ever there for new build, if a modified S stock design would meet the clearance restrictions?

It's possible, they are not dissimilar in length and width to the 503s but they look a little tall - anyone have a figure?

Chris

 

[Dstock7080]

Assuming S-Stock are the same height as the A-Stock, they're all of 10cm shorter than a Class 378 (or any other electrostar)

'38 - height 2883mm; width 2604mm
A - height 3683mm; width 2946mm
C - height 3687mm; width 2920mm
D - height 3620mm; width 2850mm
S - height 3686mm; width 2920mm; DM 17439mm, others 15434mm.

IIRC the Victoria line 67 stock was deemed inappropriate because of the ATO, right hand driving and age

1967 Stock were left side driving position.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Getting back to the 483's themselves what is the current fleet status?

Of the nominal 7 units still listed are they all still serviceable or not? When I was last over in the summer it looked like 002 (raptor) was being used for spares.

Am I right in thinking 6 cars have been scrapped since arriving on the Island and also how many units minimum are actually needed to maintain the service?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok of the nominal 6 units left..........?

 

[aylesbury]

I visited the island last year and thought the line was in a rundown state but the rolling stock looked in excellent condition. It was a shortsighted decision to truncate the route and if there is enough political will maybe it could be reinstated ? Only ex LU stock is suitable for running here as no track modification would be required and the staff at St Johns RD depot have the experience to maintain them. Has anybody got any news on the replacement dates that has come from SWT trains ?

 

[12CSVT]

Getting back to the 483's themselves what is the current fleet status?

Of the nominal 7 units still listed are they all still serviceable or not? When I was last over in the summer it looked like 002 (raptor) was being used for spares.

Am I right in thinking 6 cars have been scrapped since arriving on the Island and also how many units minimum are actually needed to maintain the service?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok of the nominal 6 units left..........?

004, 006, 007, 008, 009 are in service although only two units are usually in service on any one day.
002 has been stored for about 10 years despite being listed in the 'Platform 5' books as in service.

 

[Chris125]

Has anybody got any news on the replacement dates that has come from SWT trains ?

IIRC there are no official plans for replacement, at least for now, despite previous talk of the 73TS being looked at - this is probably a result of the Piccadilly upgrade being pushed back.

Chris

 

[BestWestern]

What came of the (pair of?) 03s that used to live on the Island? I seem to recall that one of them appeared to be dumped in a fenced off siding on an old platform face for years somewhere along with a handful of wagons.

Come to think of it, what do they use for p-way over there now?

 

[sprinterguy]

What came of the (pair of?) 03s that used to live on the Island? I seem to recall that one of them appeared to be dumped in a fenced off siding on an old platform face for years somewhere along with a handful of wagons.

A quick Google search reveals that both were “repatriated” to the mainland sometime in the nineties: One now resides in preservation on the Derwent Valley Light Railway, and the other, being in the employ of NSE of course, went to Hornsey depot where it passed first to West Anglia Great Northern and is now under the control of First Capital Connect.

No idea what they might use in the present day though.

 

[Chris125]

Come to think of it, what do they use for p-way over there now?

Road-rail vehicles basically, which can be brought over from the mainland when needed.

Chris

 

[cav1975]

Road-rail vehicles basically, which can be brought over from the mainland when needed.

Chris

There is a very capable P W train on the adjacent Steam Railway, which I'm sure they could hire if they wanted to. It would need a track slew or a connection though.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What about 313's with their flattish roofs - or are they too wide?

 

[Monty]

What about 313's with their flattish roofs - or are they too wide?

Too long as far as I understand it.

 

[BestWestern]

Come to think of it, what do they use for p-way over there now?

Road-rail vehicles basically, which can be brought over from the mainland when needed.

Chris

Fair enough. Island Line are responsible for the whole operation over there are they not, track and trains?

Another interesting question that comes to mind; what is the situation regarding Ryde pier in terms of infrastructure? Would the railway be respnsible for the whole structure, or just the line on top?

 

[swt_passenger]

Another interesting question that comes to mind; what is the situation regarding Ryde pier in terms of infrastructure? Would the railway be respnsible for the whole structure, or just the line on top?

I think there are split responsibilities, as there are basically three separate parallel piers (including road/pedestrian, disused tramway, and rail). When the road access was closed a few years ago, and the timber deck was replaced I'm 99% sure that it and the pier head buildings etc were the full responsibility of Wightlink. Of course that doesn't mean NR aren't the freeholder, but they didn't seem to be mentioned as having any responsibility at the time.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Speaking off the pier, structurally what state is it in, does it need any major work doing on it within the next decade?

 

[cav1975]

I think there are split responsibilities, as there are basically three separate parallel piers (including road/pedestrian, disused tramway, and rail). When the road access was closed a few years ago, and the timber deck was replaced I'm 99% sure that it and the pier head buildings etc were the full responsibility of Wightlink. Of course that doesn't mean NR aren't the freeholder, but they didn't seem to be mentioned as having any responsibility at the time.

The pedestrian/vehicle pier, the closed tramway pier & the Pier Head buildings belong to Wightlink. The railway pier and the platforms belong to NR and are included in the Island Line franchise. Some work was done last year, but I don't know how extensive it was or how it was funded.

 

[Helvellyn]

It was a shortsighted decision to truncate the route and if there is enough political will maybe it could be reinstated?

Why was the line from Shanklin to Ventnor closed given the rest of the line from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin was modernised by BR over the Winter of 1966-67?

 

[AM9]

Why was the line from Shanklin to Ventnor closed given the rest of the line from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin was modernised by BR over the Winter of 1966-67?

So that they could grow mushrooms in the tunnel.

 

[Chris125]

Why was the line from Shanklin to Ventnor closed given the rest of the line from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin was modernised by BR over the Winter of 1966-67?

I believe the traffic beyond Shanklin was not thought sufficient to justify the costs involved, such as another sub station and associated power supply.

Chris

 

[GatwickDepress]

Why was the line from Shanklin to Ventnor closed given the rest of the line from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin was modernised by BR over the Winter of 1966-67?

Some reports claimed the Shanklin - Ventor line was carrying as many as 250,000 passengers a year as of 1965. Professor E.R. Hondelink claimed the line could be returned to profitability should every passenger be charged a supplementary fare for the journey along Ryde Pier. Being the time when the railway board was ripping up branches left, right, and centre... it fell on deaf ears and the Ministry elected to close the branches.

A private society was set up with the intention to operate a private service between Cowes, Ryde, and Newport, and it even had the support of the county council, but the Railways Board ripped up the track, destroying the scheme.

Despite being electrified, an apparent internal memo of British Rail's suggested they wanted to put the remaining track up for closure in 1975... obviously it didn't happen.

(Source: The Great Railway Conspiracy - David Henshaw)

 

[paul1609]

Some reports claimed the Shanklin - Ventor line was carrying as many as 250,000 passengers a year as of 1965. Professor E.R. Hondelink claimed the line could be returned to profitability should every passenger be charged a supplementary fare for the journey along Ryde Pier. Being the time when the railway board was ripping up branches left, right, and centre... it fell on deaf ears and the Ministry elected to close the branches.

A private society was set up with the intention to operate a private service between Cowes, Ryde, and Newport, and it even had the support of the county council, but the Railways Board ripped up the track, destroying the scheme.

Despite being electrified, an apparent internal memo of British Rail's suggested they wanted to put the remaining track up for closure in 1975... obviously it didn't happen.

(Source: The Great Railway Conspiracy - David Henshaw)

Its interesting that these conspiracys have grown up. They seem to be in direct conflict with the experience that many early preservationists had with the southern region of BR. I have heard many examples of unofficial assistance being given to the preservation societys sanctioned at the highest levels. Whilst BR would have much rather that we would have preserved the Hawkhurst Branch, if it hadnt been for BR assitance the K&ESR wouldnt be operating today.