Acton Town [LU] - Kings Langley (KGL) season

[rww100]

Hello All,

I am helping a friend find a season ticket (or combination thereof) for a commute they will soon be commencing from Acton Town [LU] to Kings Langley (KGL).

They will travel every weekday and will need to arrive at KGL by 9am, returning at around 6pm.

They have the following:

• 18+ Student Oyster Card (click here for fares)
• 16-25 Railcard

I expect the railcard to not be relevant due to the time of travel in the morning, and the use of season tickets.


At present, they are only familiar with the route via Euston:

1. Acton Town - Green Park (Piccadilly Line)
2. Green Park - Euston (Victoria Line)
3. Euston - Kings Langley (London Midland)

For this route, the best I can find is the following ticket combination:

• Zone 1-7 Travelcard (£43.50)
• Carpenders Park (CPK) - Kings Langley (KGL) 7DS (£31.60)
• Total: £75.10

Note that I have shown weekly prices for the sake of comparison. They will probably end up buying monthly or longer tickets in the end.


I have suggested that they can avoid Zones 1 and 2 by walking to South Acton and starting from there:

1. South Acton - Willesden Junction (London Overground)
2. Willesden Junction - Harrow & Wealdstone (London Overground/Bakerloo Line)
3. Harrow & Wealdstone - Kings Langley (London Midland)

The best ticket combination I can find for this is:

• Zone 3-6 Travelcard (£21.80)
• Hatch End (HTE) - Kings Langley (KGL) 7DS (£35.70)
• Total: £57.50

My recommendation is that they get the Zone 1 ticket for the first week which will allow them to try both routes and decide which they prefer before settling on longer term tickets for either route.

These ticket combinations that I propose involve switching between tickets at stations where the London Midland service does not call. I understand that this is permissable under NRCoC Condition 19c and that they will not need to 'touch out'. I have a concern with this though in that the stations in question (Carpenders Park and Hatch End) only have platforms on the Watford DC Line and the London Midland service they will use runs on the WCML and will therefore technically not pass through these stations. Is this a problem?

Also, if anyone has any other ticketing or routeing suggestions, they would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks!

 

[hassaanhc]

.

These ticket combinations that I propose involve switching between tickets at stations where the London Midland service does not call. I understand that this is permissable under NRCoC Condition 19c and that they will not need to 'touch out'. I have a concern with this though in that the stations in question (Carpenders Park and Hatch End) only have platforms on the Watford DC Line and the London Midland service they will use runs on the WCML and will therefore technically not pass through these stations. Is this a problem?

Also, if anyone has any other ticketing or routeing suggestions, they would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks!

For Condition 19c only one of the tickets used are allowed to be a season, not any more, so you'd then have to go for a simple 19b split where the train must call.

 

[rww100]

For Condition 19c only one of the tickets used are allowed to be a season, not any more, so you'd then have to go for a simple 19b split where the train must call.

Thanks for bringing that up - looks like I didn't read it very carefully!

With that in mind, there is the following ticket combination via Zone 1, which meets Condition 19b as the LM service calls at Bushey:

• Zone 1-8 Travelcard (£51.30)
• Bushey (BSH) - Kings Langley (KGL) 7DS (£24.10)
• Total: £75.40

Similarly, avoiding Zone 1:

• Zone 3-9 + Watford Junction Travelcard (£38.60)
• Watford Junction (WFJ) - Kings Langley (KGL) 7DS (£21.50)
• Total: £60.10

Anything wrong with these/any better options?

Of course, they may prefer the cheaper options in my original post if they are happy with the slightly longer journey time involved by spending more time on London Overground services, necessary for the original splits to be valid - I would need to check with my friend.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Marginally cheaper for the second option would be five Anytime Day Returns from South Acton to Kings Langley, at £11.10 each. That would come to £55.50 per week in July and August when there's no minimum fare, and £60 in the rest of the year.

Not really worth the 10p saving because you lose the benefits of the travelcard (e.g. use at weekends and on buses anywhere in London).

 

[Tetchytyke]

With that in mind, there is the following ticket combination via Zone 1, which meets Condition 19b as the LM service calls at Bushey

During the day, most Kings Langley trains call at Bushey, but this is not necessarily the case at peak time.

If they are happy to get to Shepherds Bush, they could avoid zone one or get a point to point by taking the Southern service and change at Harrow or Watford Junction.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If your friend doesn't mind going from South Acton then it's doable for under £54 per week - check your PMs

 

[rww100]

Marginally cheaper for the second option would be five Anytime Day Returns from South Acton to Kings Langley, at £11.10 each. That would come to £55.50 per week in July and August when there's no minimum fare, and £60 in the rest of the year.

Not really worth the 10p saving because you lose the benefits of the travelcard (e.g. use at weekends and on buses anywhere in London).

I simply assumed that a season would be less expensive than buying walk-up returns, but it looks like that's not necessarily the case, particularly with the summer relaxation of the railcard restrictions, which I also managed to overlook!

Prompted by your suggestion, I have managed to find the following combinations of Travelcards and walk-up returns for use during July and August:

Travelling via Zone 1:

• Zone 1-5 Travelcard (£37.30)
• Harrow & Wealdstone (HRW) - Kings Langley (KGL) 5x Anytime Day Returns (5 * £6.60 = £33.00)
• Total: £70.30

Avoiding Zone 1:

• Zone 3-5 Travelcard (£18.20)
• Harrow & Wealdstone (HRW) - Kings Langley (KGL) 5x Anytime Day Returns (5 * £6.60 = £33.00)
• Total: £51.20

This beats the five Anytime Day Returns from South Acton to Kings Langley you suggest, and also includes the Travelcard benefits such as inclusive bus travel.

Am I right in thinking that it's not necessary to get off the train and 'touch out' when you have a Travelcard loaded onto your Oyster, as would otherwise be necessary in these cases at Harrow & Wealdstone?

During the day, most Kings Langley trains call at Bushey, but this is not necessarily the case at peak time.

In the morning they will probably arrive at Kings Langley at either 08:35 or 08:59. In the evening they will probably depart at either 17:41 or 18:15. All of these services call at Harrow & Weadstone, Bushey and Watford Junction.

If they are happy to get to Shepherds Bush, they could avoid zone one or get a point to point by taking the Southern service and change at Harrow or Watford Junction.

I don't see the advantage of taking this route - a 7-day season ticket from Shepherd's Bush to Kings Langley costs £74.40. This is more expensive than other options avoiding Zone 1, and then there is also the added cost of getting to Shepherd's Bush from Acton (£14.50 for ten journeys on the bus, or £16.50 for a Zones 2-3 Travelcard), unless you had another ticket combination in mind?

If your friend doesn't mind going from South Acton then it's doable for under £54 per week - check your PMs

Thank you for your PM Fahad - that looks like a good option for after July and August when the £12 minimum fare will return for morning peak railcard tickets. I'm not convinced by its validity though due to it not being routed 'Any Permitted', and I can't seem to validate it with NRE. I will respond to your PM with more detail of my concern.

EDIT:

If non-season tickets are to be used for the second portion of the journey, then I guess NRCoC Condition 19c can be exploited after all by taking the fast(er) London Midland service, but using the following tickets with splits at stations where the service does not call:

Via Zone 1:

• Zone 1-4 Travelcard (£31.40)
• Kenton (KNT) - Kings Langley (KGL) 5x Anytime Day Returns (5 * £6.80 = £34.00)
• Total: £65.40

Avoiding Zone 1:

• Zone 3-5 Travelcard (£18.20)
• Headstone Lane (HDL) - Kings Langley (KGL) 5x Anytime Day Returns (5 * £5.95 = £29.75)
• Total: £47.95

This now brings me back to the question in my original post - are these splits valid seeing as the London Midland service doesn't technically pass through the stations where the splits occur, seeing as they don't have platforms on the WCML?

 

[hassaanhc]

Am I right in thinking that it's not necessary to get off the train and 'touch out' when you have a Travelcard loaded onto your Oyster, as would otherwise be necessary in these cases at Harrow & Wealdstone?

This now brings me back to the question in my original post - are these splits valid seeing as the London Midland service doesn't technically pass through the stations where the splits occur, seeing as they don't have platforms on the WCML?

With the travelcard there is no need to touch in or out inside the zones of your travelcard otherwise you wouldn't be able to use a 19c split! (Of course touching in/out be done wherever possible but that doesn't matter when using the LM train as part of 19c).

The tickets would still be valid, even if there are no platforms the train still passes through those stations.

I looked at "Boundary Zone" tickets, which are only valid in conjunction with travelcards and are where one end is replaced the zone number of the last zone your travelcard is valid in. In this case the Anytime versions work out more expensive than tickets from a named station! This is an advantage in a way as boundary zone tickets are not available online or from the majority of ticket machines and would require queuing at a ticket office every now and then, whereas the named station ones can be booked online and picked up from a machine.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There's no contractual answer as to whether a train on the slow line passes through Headstone Lane station. I wouldn't expect LM to try to argue in court that it doesn't.

 

[button_boxer]

With the travelcard there is no need to touch in or out inside the zones of your travelcard otherwise you wouldn't be able to use a 19c split!

But for completeness, if you're going to be travelling beyond the zones of your travelcard (e.g. you have a 3-6 TC and want to make a journey into zone 2 using PAYG to cover zone 2) then you do need to touch in before you leave zone 3.