What's going on at Northern Rail today?

[northwichcat]

There's been a lot of cancellations or truncated services today due to 'a member of staff being unavailable'. They don't seem to have affected just one depot as services operated by Piccadilly, Victoria and Leeds crews have all been affected. Is there actually a different reason or is it just coincide or poor planning?

 

[Jonny]

There's been a lot of cancellations or truncated services today due to 'a member of staff being unavailable'. They don't seem to have affected just one depot as services operated by Piccadilly, Victoria and Leeds crews have all been affected. Is there actually a different reason or is it just coincide or poor planning?

It's most likely to either be several incidents at the same time or knock-on effects from a single incident.

 

[87015]

World Cup + decent weather = less likely to be keen on working rest days?

 

[northernchris]

Leeds has been struggling for a few weeks now, it was once very rare for anything Leeds operated to be cancelled due to a lack of crew whereas it is now a seemingly daily occurrence. The Nottingham, Blackpool and Manchester Victoria (both routes) services seem to be bearing the brunt as well as some of the peak extras. I'm wondering if the Tour de France is also behind the reasoning as supposedly staff leave has been suspended over that weekend

 

[MartinsR]

3 days on the trot I've tried to get the 1700 from Buckshaw Parkway to todmorden. 23 24 and 25 cancelled. Terrible. Just gone for my return home at 2057 from Adlington to Buckshaw. Cancelled. Another hour in the rain.

 

[LowLevel]

Leeds has been struggling for a few weeks now, it was once very rare for anything Leeds operated to be cancelled due to a lack of crew whereas it is now a seemingly daily occurrence. The Nottingham, Blackpool and Manchester Victoria (both routes) services seem to be bearing the brunt as well as some of the peak extras. I'm wondering if the Tour de France is also behind the reasoning as supposedly staff leave has been suspended over that weekend

Between that and their fleet of decidedly ropey 158s EMT have been calling at Langley Mill and Dronfield far more than usual of late.

 

[ECML180]

All Doncaster - Leeds trains short formed with class 158s that I saw today, not sure if it was every service though.

 

[Greybeard33]

A particularly bad day on the Mid-Cheshire. 13:17 Piccadilly to Chester, 14:59 Chester to Piccadilly, 16:58 Stockport to Chester and 22:44 Piccadilly to Chester all cancelled due to lack of crew.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Don't think it would be Picc Guards as we are full compliment maybe Vic is suffering from a shortage of Drivers?

 

[northwichcat]

14:59 Chester to Piccadilly

That one being one of the busiest services of the day in school term-time. The 15:59 ran as a 150+142 but given the 15:59 usually has more passengers than seats and the 14:59 is booked as 150+150, so would likely meant something like 100 standing passengers even with the 4 car formation.

 

[Bill Stanier]

Judging by the many 'wannabe' posts on this site, what excuse can Northern have for not employing enough train staff?

 

[northwichcat]

Don't think it would be Picc Guards as we are full compliment maybe Vic is suffering from a shortage of Drivers?

I didn't think there that many Mid-Cheshire services worked by Victoria drivers in the afternoon. I know the Stockport-Chester services are though.

Some Southport-Airport services were affected to the extent they were partially cancelled.

 

[Bill Stanier]

I didn't think there that many Mid-Cheshire services worked by Victoria drivers in the afternoon. I know the Stockport-Chester services are though.

Eh? Stockport - Chester IS the Mid Cheshire line.

 

[northwichcat]

Eh? Stockport - Chester IS the Mid Cheshire line.

Do you know what the difference in meaning is between 'many' and 'all'.

 

[Bill Stanier]

I do. Do you? Apart from the occasional freight train, what Mid Cheshire service is not a Stockport-Chester service?

 

[northwichcat]

I do. Do you? Apart from the occasional freight train, what Mid Cheshire service is not a Stockport-Chester service?

What point were you trying to make in post 13 then?

I said I don't think there are many Mid-Cheshire services worked by Victoria drivers but pointed out that I knew the 2 x Stockport-Chester services (i.e. the services which start at Stockport not the Manchester-Stockport-Chester services) are worked by Victoria drivers. The reason for that is they involve an ECS move between Newton Heath and Stockport and Piccadilly drivers don't sign the Denton line. No Manchester-Stockport-Chester services change crews at Stockport.

 

[DownSouth]

Judging by the many 'wannabe' posts on this site, what excuse can Northern have for not employing enough train staff?

They might want their staff to be competent?

 

[Bill Stanier]

What point were you trying to make in post 13 then?

I said I don't think there are many Mid-Cheshire services worked by Victoria drivers but pointed out that I knew the 2 x Stockport-Chester services (i.e. the services which start at Stockport not the Manchester-Stockport-Chester services) are worked by Victoria drivers. The reason for that is they involve an ECS move between Newton Heath and Stockport and Piccadilly drivers don't sign the Denton line. No Manchester-Stockport-Chester services change crews at Stockport.

Ah! I think you should have made clear in your original post you were differentiating between Mid Cheshire trains that start at Stockport and those that start at Picc. As you posted it, it is self-contradictory which is why I couldn't understand its point.

 

[Bantamzen]

All Doncaster - Leeds trains short formed with class 158s that I saw today, not sure if it was every service though.

Fuuny you should say that, as the 321 booked for the 16:11 BDQ - SKI yesterday was failed at Bradford & as a result the 16:16 BDQ - ILK was hijacked to run it, leaving the Ilkley passengers having to wait for the 16:44. The annoying bit was that originally the 16:11 was cancelled on the boards and any passengers already at the station advised to get the 16:01 LDS & change at Shipley. But as soon as that had left, the 16:16 was then cancelled an the 16:11 re-instated taking the 333 originally booked for the 16:16. Had they cancelled the Ilkley before they Leeds had left, I could have at least jumped on it to Shipley then waited in the Fox pub around the corner until the next Ilkley pulled in....

So are Northern having problems with the 321/322s, or are they hiding away at Neville Hill having a nice deep clean in time for the Tour de France next weekend...?

 

[34D]

When there was just three, if two were poorly they wouldn't send the third out in case it also failed (no other tight lock stock)

I can't imagine 7 units are in hospital at present?

 

[ianhr]

When there was just three, if two were poorly they wouldn't send the third out in case it also failed (no other tight lock stock)

I can't imagine 7 units are in hospital at present?

The 09.00 from Outwood (ex-Doncaster) to Leeds was a 3-car 158 yesterday, and running late needless to say as they cannot keep the EMU timings and station dwell times are longer because it takes passengers so long to get on and off them at peak times.

This is unusual since the arrival of the 322s and I cannot believe that Northern are short of EMUs in Yorkshire, as they now have 24 units (16 x 333, and 8 x 321/2) to cover only the Doncaster, Ilkley, Skipton and Bradford FS lines!

What on earth is going on?!

 

[Bantamzen]

The 09.00 from Outwood (ex-Doncaster) to Leeds was a 3-car 158 yesterday, and running late needless to say as they cannot keep the EMU timings and station dwell times are longer because it takes passengers so long to get on and off them at peak times.

This is unusual since the arrival of the 322s and I cannot believe that Northern are short of EMUs in Yorkshire, as they now have 24 units (16 x 333, and 8 x 321/2) to cover only the Doncaster, Ilkley, Skipton and Bradford FS lines!

What on earth is going on?!

It's just occured to me that the 16:11 BDQ-SKI was a 3 car 158 on Monday (at least I think it was Monday) afternoon too, and that's pretty much the first time I've seen a DMU at Forster Square since the 322s were put into service with Northern. Where are all the EMUs...?

 

[Clip]

When there was just three, if two were poorly they wouldn't send the third out in case it also failed (no other tight lock stock)

I can't imagine 7 units are in hospital at present?

Easily possible - 3/4 in for routine exams and a couple of failures... Doesnt take much for it to start stacking up

 

[Rail Ranger]

A conductor gets on these trains at Stockport as they come DOO from Newton Heath. The conductors normally come passenger from Piccadilly.

 

[northwichcat]

A conductor gets on these trains at Stockport as they come DOO from Newton Heath. The conductors normally come passenger from Piccadilly.

Yes which occasionally results in an ECS run from Newton Heath to Stockport and then another from Stockport to Chester if they are a conductor down and the depot doesn't get told in time.

 

[ianhr]

Easily possible - 3/4 in for routine exams and a couple of failures... Doesnt take much for it to start stacking up

I have noticed that the 322s quite often seem to be running with wheel flats.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yes which occasionally results in an ECS run from Newton Heath to Stockport and then another from Stockport to Chester if they are a conductor down and the depot doesn't get told in time.

That has happened very rarely in the past but unless there is a major sickness bug that wipes out about a 5th of the depot., it shouldn't be a problem in the near future as we have had about 20 guards start in the last 3-4 months

 

[northwichcat]

That has happened very rarely in the past but unless there is a major sickness bug that wipes out about a 5th of the depot., it shouldn't be a problem in the near future as we have had about 20 guards start in the last 3-4 months

Well Northern did manage to terminate a Preston-Buxton service at Manchester Oxford Road once by managing to not arrange a taxi for a guard to be taken to Oxford Road. Poor guard couldn't get to the train to do his job.

 

[Greybeard33]

I said I don't think there are many Mid-Cheshire services worked by Victoria drivers but pointed out that I knew the 2 x Stockport-Chester services (i.e. the services which start at Stockport not the Manchester-Stockport-Chester services) are worked by Victoria drivers. The reason for that is they involve an ECS move between Newton Heath and Stockport and Piccadilly drivers don't sign the Denton line. No Manchester-Stockport-Chester services change crews at Stockport.

Today the 142 that formed the 16:58 Stockport to Chester came ECS from Piccadilly instead of Newton Heath (maybe due to lack of a Victoria driver?) It departed Stockport only 3 minutes late at 17:01, still 2 minutes ahead of the scheduled arrival time of the following Virgin service to Euston.

This perhaps begs the question as to why this path could not be used to enable the service to start from Piccadilly instead of Stockport. Which would undoubtedly increase patronage.

 

[northernchris]

It's just occured to me that the 16:11 BDQ-SKI was a 3 car 158 on Monday (at least I think it was Monday) afternoon too, and that's pretty much the first time I've seen a DMU at Forster Square since the 322s were put into service with Northern. Where are all the EMUs...?

158758 spent last Thursday Friday and Saturday on the Airedale / Wharefedale lines after 321903 failed at Bradford on the Wednesday evening. Yesterday it was again 321903 which failed at Bradford. I think 5 of the 8 321/2s are required on a weekday so looks like they are going through an unreliable phase