An all-First Class/Pullman service

[gorgonwilliam]

Did such a thing ever exist back in the dim distant days of British Raliways? A train with no Second Class accommodation offered.

 

[yorkie]

I understand the original Blue Pullman formation included no second class seating, which was only added later.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Did you mean
all first class Pullman
or
all first class
or
all Pullman?

There were plenty of all-Pullman trains. Don't know if any were also all first class.
I used to see Motorail services (late 70s/early 80s) with all first class coaches. I think you got a first class compartment per car-load of passengers on some routes.

 

[gordonthemoron]

didn't some Manchester-Euston services have only first class?

 

[Harpers Tate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Belle

 

[Greenback]

The Blue Pullman trains were conceived as an all first class product, and introduced as such. Second class accommodation was added later, as Yorkie said.

I don't know of any other such trains that ever ran in Great Britain.

 

[eastwestdivide]

didn't some Manchester-Euston services have only first class?

Digging out my 1980 coaching stock book, all the Manchester Pullman coaches (the Mk2 design) were first class - 6x Pullman Parlour First with Kitchen, 11x Pullman Parlour First and 5x Pullman Brake First.
So yes!

At that time, they were vacuum braked, and were usually 86-hauled. Very occasionally with a Mk1 brake vehicle if there weren't enough of the Pullman Brakes available.
My 1978 timetable shows a £1.50 supplement to be paid for the Manchester Pullman.
Departures at 0800 and 1720 from Euston, and 0732 and 1643 from Manchester Picc, all calling at Wilmslow of course.

 

[Bill Stanier]

Indeed, and I used to use it from Wilmslow. It sometimes ran via the Styal line as it didn't stop at Stockport (of course! ). I understand drivers weren't keen as it was a short formation, 86 hauled, which ran fast but only had vacuum brakes.

It did have the best on-train breakfast ever, though!

 

[Western Lord]

The Blue Pullman trains were conceived as an all first class product, and introduced as such. Second class accommodation was added later, as Yorkie said.

Not quite correct. You have to distinguish between the six car London Midland Region sets which operated St. Pancras to Manchester Central, which were all first class, and the eight car Western Region sets which were always two class. After LMR electrification the six car sets were transferred to the WR and some of the 1st class downgraded to 2nd.

 

[30907]

The Night Ferry was nominally First Class sleepers only, but for most of its life carried a seated portion (sealed off for customs purposes from the sleepers and their restaurant car).
IIRC this changed in its last years so that the BR hauled stock could be dispensed with, and it became sleeper only (give or take a BCK for the guard - as the timings had changed the RC wasn't needed).

Apart from the Midland/Manchester Pullmans I think this is the only one that fits the definition (apart from race specials) - all other UK Pullmans were two-class until second class cars were replaced by ordinary stock in the 70's (the Liverpool Pullman was formed like this from the beginning).

The Golden Arrow was advertised as First Class only London-Paris but in fact 2nd class Pullmans ran in the train in the UK (whereas the Fleche d'Or in France really was First Class only). It only ran all-Pullman in summer.

 

[Taunton]

First Class Only was much more common in Continental Europe. All the initial TEE trains were, and so were a number of the fastest trains on various domestic networks.

The Blue Pullmans were built in 1960, the LMR on the Manchester run decided First Class would fill a 6-car train whereas the Western had Second Class from the start, as did the Brighton Belle and just about every other Pullman service.

The Great Western "Ocean Saloons" built in the 1930s were only First Class but the trains they were used on, from Paddington, were always specials - ocean liner trains to Plymouth and Newbury Races trains.

 

[Springs Branch]

Did such a thing ever exist back in the dim distant days of British Raliways? A train with no Second Class accommodation offered.

For a number of years BR regularly ran at least one all first-class sleeper train between Kings Cross and Scotland.
Oddly enough these trains seemed to convey first class sleepers only northbound, but had first and second class sleepers southbound (with no seated accommodation either direction).

This is mentioned in a current thread on All Sleeper car trains in BR days

Quoting from that thread . . . . .

In 1962, the Eastern Region had some interesting shunting of sleeping-stock.
The Night Scotsman [11.35pm Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverley and 11.05pm back] conveyed first class sleeping cars only on the down journey, but first and second sleepers on the up. Neither conveyed ordinary carriages, and both were shown in the timetable as non-stop, although obviously a stop would have been made somewhere for engine/crew change.

A decade or so later, the 1971-72 timetable showed the 01.00 Kings Cross-Edinburgh as First Class sleeping car passengers only.
The equivalent southbound train was noted as Sleeping car passengers only - indicating first & second class conveyed.

The next year's timetable 1972-73 showed the 01.00 KX-Edinburgh simply as Sleeping car passengers only, implying BR ended the exclusively First Class overnight train around 1972.

 

[Taunton]

Oddly enough these trains seemed to convey first class sleepers only northbound, but had first and second class sleepers southbound.

There was remarshaling during the day, because the demand did vary each way, both people doing overnight one way, daytime the other, and also because the intermediate stops gave different combinations of demand each way - for instance a 2300 from Kings Cross would suit some getting off early at Newcastle, but a 2300 from Edinburgh was too late to take people on at Newcastle.

If I am not mistaken the 0100 from KX only had a few sleepers (and not a lot of demand, most wanted earlier departure), but conveyed a lot of newspaper vans to places like Newcastle for those lesser newspapers which didn't print in Manchester as well. The newspaper traffic was of course the ultimate one-way only flow; the vans came back empty during the day so only one overnight circuit was needed, unlike sleepers.

 

[Springs Branch]

When BR operated its Motorail network, the daytime trains were generally formed of First Class Mk.I corridor vehicles.

Here's an example from 1979, seen near Springs Branch, Wigan.

Of course, Motorail were not "all-First Class trains" in the sense meant by the OP, as you paid the special Motorail fare to travel on them.
But it was a convenient way for BR to use surplus Mk.I First Class vehicles once all the premium business trains on the main lines had been upgraded to Mk.II and Mk.III stock. And it gave an enhanced level of comfort for travelers more used to the "luxury" of their 1960/70s car.

 

[Johnuk123]

Me and my mate at a very young age used to wait at Snow Hill and catch the Blue Pullman to Wolves, never paid once.

We must have looked quite unusual wandering amongst the posh people with our duffel bags and Ian Allen books in hand.