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1915 from Paddington skipping the Pick up only call tonight

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Greenback

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Something else no-one has commented on is the effect on passengers planning to join the train and travel west. If I was planning to catch that train I wouldn't be amused to see it speed through the station without stopping.

I know the train was supposedly full (albeit there would probably been a lot get off at Reading) but what about anyone with a seat reservation?

As someone who was formerly a resident of Reading I agree! However, if the train is already too full to allow anyone to board, then there wasn't really any alternative.

Maybe FGW should put a team of RPI's on this service once a week on different days? That'll do the trick! Or be more fussy to what is full and standing a little bit more and skip reading a few more times...

If there are any RPI's available, maybe they should be deployed to check tickets on the platform, at the doors to the nearest standard class coach as that's where Reading passengers traditionally like to get on!

Passengers for Reading can then be politely informed that they have another train in 3 minutes time.

I'm assuming Swansea passengers can get to Cardiff and change to a local ATW service though which are more frequent.

Swansea passengers will just catch the next service half an hour later, will likely be annoyed at the delay.

-I would suspect that the decision was made on the back of the TM saying it's too crowded, I'm not taking it, and sticking to his / her guns.
-I would also be pretty damn sure announcements would have been made on board before departure.

I think you are spot on there.

As a dyslexic person I can quiet easily see how someone might board the train. A commuter who usually works from home on a Friday. Given the numbers traveling 6 over carries could easily be people who made a mistake rather than knew the risks.

I do have some sympathy due to the fact that the pick up only stop is only on a Friday. I think it's more likely to be the regular travellers who don't check the boards. They may forget about the Friday changes, not be aware of it at all, or simply not thinking when they arrive at Paddington.

That said, I'm sure there will be some who know it only too well and choose to disregard it, as they know they can normally alight without any problem.
 
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A-driver

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As a dyslexic person I can quiet easily see how someone might board the train. A commuter who usually works from home on a Friday. Given the numbers traveling 6 over carries could easily be people who made a mistake rather than knew the risks.

I was once was a train from Portsmouth where I was going to change at Woking. What I hadn't noticed was that the service was one of the very few not to stop at Woking. Most 17 minutes passed the hour services from Guildford stop at Woking but the 18.17 doesn't. I don't remember hearing an announcement saying it doesn't stop at Woking but there may have been one.

Some might say why should there be an announcement, given it lists the calling points. Well I'm dyslexic and mistakes can be made.

I was laughing at people stupidity until I read the train stops there Monday to Thursday. I though all Monday to Friday services would have the same stopping patterns these days.

In the past say 50 years ago, there were often different changes depending on which day it is but I thought things had become more standardised.

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But announcements would have been made so what has that got to do with dyslexia? Ok you may read the board wrong but when the train is announced as calling at Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea or whatever the stops are why would one think they are on a reading train?!

A while back I travelled to Devon on a train calling at first stop Exeter from paddington. An announcement was made at paddington saying it was the whatever time departure to Penzance calling at Exeter then stations to Penzance. The guard then went on to say that the train would not stop at reading and that reading pax needed to get the whatever time train boarding on platform 8. Once in the move another announcement was made saying that we would be stopping at reading to take on passengers and asking people to keep seats free of bags. 5 or 6 people in my coach got off at reading so despite reading never being advertised and the guard specifically saying that we would NOT call there people still chanced it. Had the train decided not to stop there then those who alighted would have ended up in Exeter without a leg to stand on.
 

infobleep

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But announcements would have been made so what has that got to do with dyslexia? Ok you may read the board wrong but when the train is announced as calling at Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea or whatever the stops are why would one think they are on a reading train?!

A while back I travelled to Devon on a train calling at first stop Exeter from paddington. An announcement was made at paddington saying it was the whatever time departure to Penzance calling at Exeter then stations to Penzance. The guard then went on to say that the train would not stop at reading and that reading pax needed to get the whatever time train boarding on platform 8. Once in the move another announcement was made saying that we would be stopping at reading to take on passengers and asking people to keep seats free of bags. 5 or 6 people in my coach got off at reading so despite reading never being advertised and the guard specifically saying that we would NOT call there people still chanced it. Had the train decided not to stop there then those who alighted would have ended up in Exeter without a leg to stand on.

Jus because they don't say Reading doesn't mean dyslexic person won't have thought the train stops at Reading. Dyslexia isn't just about spelling and reading [no pun intended]. It's also about planning; processing and following logical steps and yes that means you can hear something and still not take it in correctly. So you hear train doesn't stop at Reading but it doesn't register, given your train normally stops at Reading. When I say normally I mean Monday to Thursday.

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455driver

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To get them off the train, making space for people who aren't going to Reading.

So you think that if the announcement about jot stopping at Reading was made all the Reading passengers would get off do you?
You are more trusting than me!
I would put a months wages on them just sitting there thinking to themselves "this train always stops at Reading and FGW are just trying to be clever" (or something similar) ;)
 

Class 33

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On Fridays at roughly that time passengers for Reading can get the 1912 service to Oxford arriving Reading at 1941, or the 1918 also for Oxford arriving Reading at 1956. Or the 1922 service to Hereford arriving Reading at 1951. So they have a few other different services they can get on instead of that 1915 service which is not supposed to be for passengers travelling to Reading!
 

A-driver

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Jus because they don't say Reading doesn't mean dyslexic person won't have thought the train stops at Reading. Dyslexia isn't just about spelling and reading [no pun intended]. It's also about planning; processing and following logical steps and yes that means you can hear something and still not take it in correctly. So you hear train doesn't stop at Reading but it doesn't register, given your train normally stops at Reading. When I say normally I mean Monday to Thursday.

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I know all about dyslexia as I am myself but i would still state as I did above that regardless of the boards, the on train announcement would also confirm it dosnt stop there. What more could they do? The board dosnt list it, the announcement doesn't announce it, dyslexic or not if you just assume a train will stop somewhere without checking (and a dyslexic person could still spend longer reading the board or ask staff if it stops) you don't have any argument when it dosnt stop there!
 

infobleep

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I know all about dyslexia as I am myself but i would still state as I did above that regardless of the boards, the on train announcement would also confirm it dosnt stop there. What more could they do? The board dosnt list it, the announcement doesn't announce it, dyslexic or not if you just assume a train will stop somewhere without checking (and a dyslexic person could still spend longer reading the board or ask staff if it stops) you don't have any argument when it dosnt stop there!

I'm not saying there is much they can do, other than standardising the services across the whole week, which may not work for other reasons.

However just because they can't do anything, doesn't mean people won't make mistakes based on the current situation. I was purely pointing out why it might happen to people and that not everyone is doing it for the hell of it because they can.

Talking of trains not stopping, I think Woking should be a not stopping station on a few services that leaving Waterloo and stop at Clapham Junction in the evening. In particular the 18.27 from Clapham Junction to Exeter and the 18.46 Clapham Junction to Poole. Perhaps that will be less of an issue once they have more carriages. Not sure if the Exeter service is due more carriages or not.

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A-driver

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I'm not saying there is much they can do, other than standardising the services across the whole week, which may not work for other reasons.

However just because they can't do anything, doesn't mean people won't make mistakes based on the current situation. I was purely pointing out why it might happen to people and that not everyone is doing it for the hell of it because they can.

Talking of trains not stopping, I think Woking should be a not stopping station on a few services that leaving Waterloo and stop at Clapham Junction in the evening. In particular the 18.27 from Clapham Junction to Exeter and the 18.46 Clapham Junction to Poole. Perhaps that will be less of an issue once they have more carriages. Not sure if the Exeter service is due more carriages or not.

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Of course people will make mistakes-nothing to do with dyslexia, many reasons why people may mistake stopping patterns though their own fault or through other factors.

But I doubt that everyone over carried on the train in question was dyslexic or mistaken. Most were almost undoubtedly aware that it wasn't advertised to call at reading but regularly board it anyway as they know that it 'unifficially' does. Whilst perhaps wrong and unfair on others who couldn't travel to other destinations because selfish people were taking up the space I wouldn't go as far as to say 'serves them right' but that they knew they were chancing it and can't really complain that they got caught out on this occasion.

As I said before- sure the majority took it in reasonably good humour and didn't see any point or justification in complaining. But those who did complain don't have any right to and anyone who made a genuine mistake (whatever the reason) needs to accept their mistake and get on with it without looking to pass the blame onto someone else-like the passenger who jumped on my train at kings x going to Finsbury park then tried complaining when I didn't stop until Hitchin despite me making a pre departure announcement stating that the train is for Hitchin, st Neots, Huntingdon & Peterbourgh. "But most FCC trains stop at Finsbury park" didn't get a sympathetic apology from me or give any right to a free ride back.
 

infobleep

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You right that they shouldn't complain as long as they announced that the train does not stop at Reading? I think that is useful thing to say every Friday full stop. It's not enough in my opinion to just not mention Reading. Saying that someone might misheard not stop at Reading as stop at Reading. Whatever one does will be wrong for someone. Can't win. Lol.

Having humour certainly is something that helps in these situations. If it was me, not sure I'd see the humourus side of it. However that would more likely be directed at myself for getting it wrong rather than others.

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Greenback

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Thinking back, I seem to recall being over carried to Didcot by a train that didn't stop at Reading back in the day. I had no fare issues because I was on my staff pass, but I believe that my experience shows that it's possible to make an honest mistake when you travel regularly. I simply didn't check the boards, and assumed that the train would call at Reading!
 

Andrewlong

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You right that they shouldn't complain as long as they announced that the train does not stop at Reading? I think that is useful thing to say every Friday full stop. It's not enough in my opinion to just not mention Reading. Saying that someone might misheard not stop at Reading as stop at Reading. Whatever one does will be wrong for someone. Can't win. Lol.

Having humour certainly is something that helps in these situations. If it was me, not sure I'd see the humourus side of it. However that would more likely be directed at myself for getting it wrong rather than others.

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Agreed and mention passengers travelling beyond Reading without valid tickets may be subject to penalty fares. Would it also be impractical to make it a fully reserved train?
 

A-driver

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Agreed and mention passengers travelling beyond Reading without valid tickets may be subject to penalty fares. Would it also be impractical to make it a fully reserved train?


If by making it fully reserved you mean deny access to anyone without a reservation then that wouldn't help as it would mean standees would be denied access and that will greatly reduce the number allowed to travel leaving hundreds who could have stood unable to travel at all.
 

Class83

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You right that they shouldn't complain as long as they announced that the train does not stop at Reading? I think that is useful thing to say every Friday full stop. It's not enough in my opinion to just not mention Reading. Saying that someone might misheard not stop at Reading as stop at Reading. Whatever one does will be wrong for someone. Can't win. Lol.

Having humour certainly is something that helps in these situations. If it was me, not sure I'd see the humourus side of it. However that would more likely be directed at myself for getting it wrong rather than others.

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When I've been on uplift only trains the guard often/usually makes a 'this train stops at X to uplift passengers only, please alight and catch the train on platform Y'. , I've seen a lot of people (including on occasion myself) ignore this and take the chance, however, if it doesn't stop then you have to take it on the chin. If we get into a position where guards are having to make announcements going, 'this train really, really isn't stopping at X' then nothing would ever leave. Just cancelling the stop probably kept everything moving a bit better. It's anyone trying to board at Reading heading west I feel for.

In the Reading case, the train 19.12 and 19.22 look reasonable alternatives, will Crossrail give capacity for non-stop Reading shuttles into the main station?
 

1D53

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Reading commuters took their chance, it backfired. Can't see any reason to complain about it!
 

Flamingo

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Apparently there were about 80 people on the train who were only going to Reading, and didn't get off after announcements were made it did not call at Reading.

Over a carriage full.

Probably enough that if they hadn't been so bloody selfish to get on the train that there would have been space to have allowed the people who wished to travel past Swindon from Paddington, and the people who were waiting at a Reading to board their booked train to travel.

It's a real shame that Revenue were not waiting at Swindon to charge every damn one of them a ticket back to Reading.
 
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jon0844

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Some commuters do feel themselves to be 'above the law' which is demonstrated by the stickers all over FCC 313s now to make it clear(er) you can't go into the area marked 'Private'...

I guess over carrying these passengers taking a gamble, who are causing massive inconvenience to those passengers who can't get on to travel further on the train, is hopefully punishment enough. Do it a few more times and those people who think they have a clever trick will stop.

I'm amazed any of these people would actually admit their selfishness on Twitter. Maybe some were genuine mistakes, but I doubt it was many.
 

infobleep

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Apparently there were about 80 people on the train who were only going to Reading, and didn't get off after announcements were made it did not call at Reading.

Over a carriage full.

Probably enough that if they hadn't been so bloody selfish to get on the train that there would have been space to have allowed the people who wished to travel past Swindon from Paddington, and the people who were waiting at a Reading to board their booked train to travel.

It's a real shame that Revenue were not waiting at Swindon to charge every damn one of them a ticket back to Reading.

They don't tend to want to charge large groups of passengers.

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A-driver

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They don't tend to want to charge large groups of passengers.

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Not so much don't want to but it's impossible in a situation like that. As a last minute alteration they couldn't send a single or small handful of RPIs there as it would be too dangerous-if a single RPI asked 80people to wait whilst he charged then or took their details they would laugh and walk all over him. In that situation they would need a lot of RPIs plus probably police assistance. That can't be achieved at such short notice.
 

Flamingo

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Not so much don't want to but it's impossible in a situation like that. As a last minute alteration they couldn't send a single or small handful of RPIs there as it would be too dangerous-if a single RPI asked 80people to wait whilst he charged then or took their details they would laugh and walk all over him. In that situation they would need a lot of RPIs plus probably police assistance. That can't be achieved at such short notice.

And as it would involve upsetting Reading commuters even more than they already had been, it would never happen...
 

Greenback

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I was annoyed with myself quite enough when I had to travel via Didcot and return to Reading without any financial penalty. I hope that the majority of the 80 will learn their lesson and I would still prefer RPI's to be on the departure platform at Padd and then travel to Reading changing random passengers who get off there to make sure that everyone learns it eventually.

But Flamingo is correct. FGW are very reluctant to upset the Reading crowd too much. When I worked there we were the most scrutinised station on the FGW network. Although that didn't extend to staffing the place properly. There was always lots of overtime going!
 

Philip C

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This whole discussion takes me back to the old Central Division of the Southern in the time prior to the 1978 Timetable changes. There was a standard service pattern but this was abandoned between about 1600 and 1900 to the main business of getting passengers home from work. The principal notion was that you filled your train up at Victoria or London Bridge, got it fast forty miles down the main line and then served a carefully selected number of stations thereafter. The whole service was put together with a series of ‘flights’ where a fast service led out of London, followed by another stopping short of the first one’s initial stop and so on. The most famous ‘flight’ was the ‘Three Fives’ from London Bridge. Here, in 1976, the first left at 1658 fast to Hassocks, Preston Park and Brighton; then came the 1700 for Burgess Hill, Hove and the West Coast and finally the 1704 for East Croydon, Haywards Heath, Wivelsfield and the East Coast. Prior to electrification this pattern had included slip coaches for the East Grinstead line at Three Bridges. In this way a fast service was provided and the loads were balanced between trains and, memory suggests, the service worked pretty well.

Now one consequence of this was that there were plenty of trains which called at East Croydon and plenty which didn’t. In the hour from 1700 there were five trains from Victoria and five from London Bridge non-stopping EC and seven of these were fast to Haywards Heath or beyond. Everybody seemed to know which was their train and would only rarely find themselves on the wrong one. The same, however, couldn’t be said for those hoping to alight at East Croydon. On a regular basis trains would slow coming through Windmill Bridge Junction; a passenger or two would arise from their seats, collect umbrellas from racks and move towards doors; the train would then accelerate through the station and head for open country. It provided a late dinner for them and some simple amusement for us; and everyday there would be new victims.

For various reasons the practice of decades came to an end in 1978 as the Central Division came to regard it as wrong for, all but the merest few, trains to omit stops not just at East Croydon but at Clapham Junction, Gatwick and Haywards Heath. What was lost were fast peak services, the companionship of travelling with the same people each day, balloons and streamers in the carriages before Christmas, the tipping of the ex-Belle stewards who brought class, white jackets and blue piping to the buffet cars and the sense of Sussex beginning at the carriage door at Victoria. What was gained was that there was no longer a need to engage eye, ear or brain before boarding and the conversion of part of the mainline journey into an extension of the joys of the Victoria Line ride into Victoria. A little elitist perhaps, but I know whether I preferred the old or the new ways!

Meanwhile on the South East Division we still have, for now, our non-stop trains from Waterloo (East) to High Brooms and, despite the best endeavours of the guards, late dinners are still supplied to those who imagine that all trains stop at London Bridge. Perhaps these are the next generation of passengers headed for East Croydon, genetically predestined for unwanted country travel?

May I now add a couple of little anecdotes to this journey down memory lane? In the mid-1970s the off-peak service from Victoria to Preston Park offered a few options. The direct train left at xx44, called at all stations from Purley and took 90 minutes. Alternatively changing at Haywards Heath could get the journey down to 76 minutes. Or taking the xx00 non-stop to Brighton gave a decently reliable 3 minute connection and a 61 minute trip. One summer’s evening I was having a pot of tea at a table in the buffet car of what was probably the 2100 ex-Victoria when a particularly tall guard came through inspecting tickets. When he reached the wine and cigarette crowd by the buffet counter he took the opportunity to scandalise a goodly number of them by surcharging them a few pence for the excess on their Preston Park seasons. Such a thing had not happened before! Once he had gone the indignation soon turned to mirth as the funny side prevailed. The camaraderie of those travelling the line was a big part of all our lives.

Turning then to the late 1990s and the train which left, and still leaves, Charing Cross around 1800 for the Hastings Line. At a time of stock shortage only 4 cars, memory suggest a VEP unit, were available on this particular evening. “Control” decided that passengers for High Brooms and Tunbridge Wells were catered for by the following TW semi-fast and so announcements were repeatedly made on train and station that the train would run fast from Waterloo (East) to Frant. The concept of a train which passed through Tunbridge Wells without stopping was beyond the grasp of travellers taught from the cradle of certain certainties of life: as a result another plethora of reheated dinners and stories to be related to wide-eyed grandchildren. But the look on their faces as it became evident that TW was to be passed was wonderful – talk about a trip outside the comfort zone – it was as if the River Styx ran just beyond Grove Tunnel!

So I have little sympathy for those who make assumptions and ignore announcements. I am, however, reminded that I never managed to travel between Millers Dale and Matlock,. My mother inadvertently managed it, one day, by failing to change at Chinley en route from Manchester Central to Edale; and she got the return trip back to Chinley thrown in all for free.
 
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ExRes

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In the old days, when nobody knew how to run a railway properly, did they not have strange people in uniforms checking tickets before the passengers boarded the train ?

I believe the idea was to ensure that the correct and valid ticket was held for each particular train and that the passenger did, indeed, board the proper train

I know I'm just being silly but perhaps something could be learned from these old fashioned rituals
 

infobleep

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And as it would involve upsetting Reading commuters even more than they already had been, it would never happen...

That was more my point and the adverse publicity but yes I guess it wouldn't be practical at short notice.

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jon0844

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That was more my point and the adverse publicity but yes I guess it wouldn't be practical at short notice.

If the media stopped to think, it wouldn't give any time to those commuters who moaned about being 'kept hostage' on the train (a likely thing that would be written) because it would point out that these people were being incredibly selfish by even trying to use what they might see as an innocent 'loophole'.

Intercity trains should be allowed to reserve space for those going a long way, not have people unable to board because some people are getting off a 'few minutes up the line'. Pick up only solves this, while allowing people to travel a long distance from that station without having to first go into London and back out.

But how to get this through the thick skulls of those commuters who think they're better than everyone else? Hit them with penalties, or just expose them as selfish and ignorant, so they're shamed into compliance? I'd expect the latter would be more successful.
 

Flamingo

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Name & Shame only works if the person you are naming feels shame!
 

jon0844

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Name & Shame only works if the person you are naming feels shame!

Yeah, but in time they might. I am pretty certain that the reduction of drink driving was down to it becoming socially unacceptable - with those around the person drinking making it quite clear it wasn't acceptable - rather than enforcement.

Of course, now it's more likely drug driving - and the same needs to happen there too. But that's another subject!

Ultimately, they think they're being clever but are actually being downright selfish. Perhaps if someone boarded at a set down only station, it wouldn't be a problem but this way around, there will be people unable to get to where they want and need to go. And it can't just be the 'evil' TOCs having to explain this.
 

Aldaniti

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In the old days, when nobody knew how to run a railway properly, did they not have strange people in uniforms checking tickets before the passengers boarded the train ?

I believe the idea was to ensure that the correct and valid ticket was held for each particular train and that the passenger did, indeed, board the proper train

I know I'm just being silly but perhaps something could be learned from these old fashioned rituals

Don't be silly, such common sense would never catch on! :lol: Having said that, the last few times I've departed Euston, such checks were in place. I don't think many will ever realise the sheer volume of railway operating experience, built over decades, that was lost when BR was disbanded.
 
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