Opening new ticket offices at unstaffed stations

[davetheguard]

I wonder what sort of level passenger numbers have to reach before opening a ticket office (or installing a ticket machine for that matter) at an unstaffed station becomes cost effective?

On the Cotswold Line (Worcester - Oxford), station entries and exits for 12/13 at unstaffed Hanborough have risen to 172,684 and overtaken staffed Kingham (where they've also grown but at a slower rate) at 169,496.

I believe Burnley Manchester Road is about have a ticket office for the first time since the station was re-opened in the 80s: usage there last year was 247,488. The ticket agency at Chester le Street station operates with station usage at only 174,968; yet, conversely Hilsea at 287,638 is unstaffed!

Presumably, issues such as length of journey time between adjacent stations (for the Guard to collect fares) come in to the equation; as well as provision (or otherwise) of ticket gates at the destination.

What presently unstaffed stations ought to have a ticket office (re)opened and why?

 

[cjmillsnun]

I wonder what sort of level passenger numbers have to reach before opening a ticket office (or installing a ticket machine for that matter) at an unstaffed station becomes cost effective?

On the Cotswold Line (Worcester - Oxford), station entries and exits for 12/13 at unstaffed Hanborough have risen to 172,684 and overtaken staffed Kingham (where they've also grown but at a slower rate) at 169,496.

I believe Burnley Manchester Road is about have a ticket office for the first time since the station was re-opened in the 80s: usage there last year was 247,488. The ticket agency at Chester le Street station operates with station usage at only 174,968; yet, conversely Hilsea at 287,638 is unstaffed!

Presumably, issues such as length of journey time between adjacent stations (for the Guard to collect fares) come in to the equation; as well as provision (or otherwise) of ticket gates at the destination.

What presently unstaffed stations ought to have a ticket office (re)opened and why?

Hilsea has TVMs though.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't think new ticket offices will be generally opened. Generally where ticket sales have risen at staffed stations they haven't increased staffing levels or made the ticket office open for longer but introduced a TVM alongside the ticket office. At unstaffed stations where passenger numbers have risen a new TVM has appeared - no new ticket office.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I wonder what sort of level passenger numbers have to reach before opening a ticket office (or installing a ticket machine for that matter) at an unstaffed station becomes cost effective?

On the Cotswold Line (Worcester - Oxford), station entries and exits for 12/13 at unstaffed Hanborough have risen to 172,684 and overtaken staffed Kingham (where they've also grown but at a slower rate) at 169,496.

I believe Burnley Manchester Road is about have a ticket office for the first time since the station was re-opened in the 80s: usage there last year was 247,488. The ticket agency at Chester le Street station operates with station usage at only 174,968; yet, conversely Hilsea at 287,638 is unstaffed!

Presumably, issues such as length of journey time between adjacent stations (for the Guard to collect fares) come in to the equation; as well as provision (or otherwise) of ticket gates at the destination.

What presently unstaffed stations ought to have a ticket office (re)opened and why?

Hilsea was destaffed around 2006 I believe, certainly quite an oddity as no other stations anywhere went with it - perhaps a SWT employee or Portsmouth native can shed some light on it.

Anyway, I doubt it will happen generally ever again. The only time it has generally ever happened (since privatisation at least) is either as a result of local enterprise (Chester-le-Street, Ludlow etc), or considerable development (Burnley Manchester Road and the Toddy Curve or Bathgate and A-B). I think with the rise of TVMs and mobile ticketing etc, booking offices, certainly from the cost needed to set one up initially, are very unlikely to be reopened almost anywhere. That said, from the example you give down in the Cotswolds, FGW have a slight habit of making some provision for it - Worle gained a bloke in a plastic box with an Avantix last year, which I suppose could be classed as 'staffed' - perhaps something might happen soon!

 

[TEW]

Digby and Sowton could probably do with a member of staff. 742,622 entries and exits in 2012/13. Up from 120,505 in 2002/03. It has just a single TVM at the moment.

 

[northwichcat]

One thing to remember when quoting usage figures is some stations have a lot of people making return journeys to rather than making return journeys from, so a ticket office at one with 400,000 make generate more ticket sales than a ticket office at one with 600,000.

 

[ianhr]

I would have thought that one factor might be the potential demand for complex journeys, advance sales, information etc. (which cannot be easily handled by TVMs), in addition to purely local tickets on the line of route, and so staffing only becomes justified at stations in larger towns e.g. Burnley Man Rd. & Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[davetheguard]

Digby and Sowton could probably do with a member of staff. 742,622 entries and exits in 2012/13. Up from 120,505 in 2002/03. It has just a single TVM at the moment.

Three quarters of a MILLION enties and exits and no ticket office!

Surely, with this sort of growth in usage, someone ought to be considering expanding the facilities. New airport stations aside, this must be one of the most successful new stations in the Country outside of London?

I don't know the place myself, do people commute to Exeter from it, or is it surrounded by a business park that brings people to it - or a bit of both? Even so, it has three times the usage of Burnley Manchester Road which is getting a new facility.

 

[Hadders]

One of the reasons for the increase in usage at Digby & Sowton is the nearby Exeter Chiefs rugby ground.

Since their promotion to the Premiership there's usually 2 or 3 FGW members of staff marshalling passengers, checking tickets and selling them via Avantix Mobile machines at the extrance.

 

[swcovas]

Cardiff Bay? Don't think it has TVM either.

 

[Mojo]

Filton Abbey Wood (0.892 Million journeys per year) had a ticket office that was staffed in the evening peak only, which closed shortly after First Great Western took over. It was reopened about two, or possibly three, years ago, in the afternoon from 12.30 - 18.30, although is still just a man with an Avantix machine in an Olympic hut meaning that Advance tickets/reservations and anything longer than weekly seasons are not available.

Not wishing to start a trivia thread, but whilst there are loads of morning peak-only ticket offices; how many afternoon-only ticket offices are there?

 

[TEW]

Three quarters of a MILLION enties and exits and no ticket office!

Surely, with this sort of growth in usage, someone ought to be considering expanding the facilities. New airport stations aside, this must be one of the most successful new stations in the Country outside of London?

I don't know the place myself, do people commute to Exeter from it, or is it surrounded by a business park that brings people to it - or a bit of both? Even so, it has three times the usage of Burnley Manchester Road which is getting a new facility.

It's probably a bit of both. There are some industrial buildings around, and a retail park. There's also the Exeter Chiefs rugby ground. But there's also a lot of new houses in the area. I'd be surprised if it's entirely coincidental that the usage figures soared quite so much shortly after ticket barriers were installed Exeter Central. 374,496 to 742,622 seems a little high to be down to growth solely. Increased collection of fares is probably partly the reason too.

 

[Hassocks5489]

Cardiff Bay? Don't think it has TVM either.

One was installed in mid-2013.

 

[3141]

At Overton in Hampshire, operated by SWT, there was a small plastic hut ticket office that was staffed from early in the morning till just after 10.00. Hours were then reduced to finish at 9.00. With general talk about closing ticket offices, and the retirement of the part-time booking clerk, we were surprised when, about two years ago, SWT constructed a new larger ticket office which also includes a disabled toilet. Opening hours remain the same (and I think the toilet is only available when the ticket office is staffed), but as they've built this new one they presumably they intend to continue to run it and not rely entirely on the ticket machine.

 

[Hassocks5489]

...Not wishing to start a trivia thread, but whilst there are loads of morning peak-only ticket offices; how many afternoon-only ticket offices are there?

I remember seeing one or two somewhere in the various lists and stuff I keep ... I'll see what I can find in the general clutter of my hard drive! London Midland springs to mind, in particular.

EDIT: well, according to the "London Midland ticket office opening hours from 31st March 2013" proposal document (I found that surprisingly quickly ), Jewellery Quarter was to be closed except for Fridays 1600-1800 and Saturday 1100-1300 and 1500-1700. Also, among Adderley Park's wacky proposed opening hours* were Saturday 1200-1400.

*Closed Mondays, open 3 hours Friday, 2 hours Sat and 5 hours every other day including Sunday!

 

[Quakers Yard]

I notice that Treforest Estate now has a TVM in the platform shelter which is unstaffed.
Abercynon's TVM is open to the elements though...also unstaffed.

 

[swcovas]

One was installed in mid-2013.

That's good......not been there for about a year. Noticed in January this year that one installed in Tenby.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I think there may be a number of elements at play here, basically commuter stations have very quiet daytimes and may appear to the TOC that they are unnecessary, importance of customer contact varies between TOCs and some just want to remove the cost [LM] I feel it unlikely we will see many (re)openings due to growth. The Adderly Park opening hours may be due to revenue protection duties on Birmingham City match days perhaps?

 

[Hassocks5489]

Arriva Trains Wales undertook a programme to equip many stations, especially in the Cardiff Valleys area, with TVMs from mid-2013. A quick look at my lists shows more than 60 have been installed, in two tranches: circa May 2013 to September 2013, and from March 2014 to date. They're card-only Shere FASTticket machines. (Oops - that was meant to be a multi-quote reply @Quakers Yard and @swcovas - must have clicked the wrong thing!)

 

[GatwickDepress]

Ore could do with a TVM these days, having 130,782 usage for 2012/13.

It's been unstaffed and without ticketing facilities since a fire destroyed the booking office in the late 1980s. I wonder if that lead to the footpath leading up to Halton becoming disused and boarded off... But that's off topic.

 

[Hassocks5489]

I notice that Treforest Estate now has a TVM in the platform shelter which is unstaffed.
Abercynon's TVM is open to the elements though...also unstaffed.

That's good......not been there for about a year. Noticed in January this year that one installed in Tenby.

Ore could do with a TVM these days, having 130,782 usage for 2012/13.

It's been unstaffed and without ticketing facilities since a fire destroyed the booking office in the late 1980s. I wonder if that lead to the footpath leading up to Halton becoming disused and boarded off... But that's off topic.

Yes, that's a good call. Southern has had several bursts of TVM-installing over the years, and I fully expected Ore to get one when the likes of Rye, Ham Street, Ockley and Ford were done (i.e. the smallest stations were filled in), which was early 2012. There are very few Southern stations without at least one Shere FASTticket m/c now. I can probably put a list together. I suspect fear of vandalism might have something to do with it, although South Bermondsey (another notorious spot for vandalism, I believe) got one in late 2011. Incidentally that one was vandalised and went out of service for several months! Back in Network SouthEast days, South B. was one of the very few stations to have a ticket office but no Quickfare (Ascom B8050) TVM, allegedly because of the vandalism problems.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Since the regeneration of the former EMU depot and goods yard into a housing estate (imaginatively named "The Sidings") the area around the station has seen a lot less anti-social behaviour.
If a TVM was installed, I'd fully expect it to either be at the footpath junction by the newsagent, which is always lit and open late at night, or close to the big "Platform 1 for Ashford / Platform 2 for Hastings/Eastbourne/Brighton" sign.

 

[Hassocks5489]

OK, here are all the Southern stations without TVMs: I have grouped them into three parts. Seaford branch; East Coastway; Uckfield branch.

Southease, Newhaven Harbour, Bishopstone; Pevensey Bay, Normans Bay, Ore, Three Oaks, Doleham, Winchelsea, Appledore; Ashurst (Kent).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's been unstaffed and without ticketing facilities since a fire destroyed the booking office in the late 1980s. ...

Exactly the same fate struck Moses Gate and Kearsley (both between Bolton and Salford Crescent), in the same period of time too.

Hassocks - what's the nature of all these lists if you don't mind me asking? You seem to know a lot and I'm quite interested in provision (or lack of) like that.

 

[Hassocks5489]

Exactly the same fate struck Moses Gate and Kearsley (both between Bolton and Salford Crescent), in the same period of time too.

Hassocks - what's the nature of all these lists if you don't mind me asking? You seem to know a lot and I'm quite interested in provision (or lack of) like that.

No worries I have collected modern railway tickets for the past 25 years, and since New Generation (post-APTIS) systems came out I have maintained various lists of all known machine installations, machine numbers etc., based on observation of tickets collected by me or other "colleagues" (so to speak!) around the country. Most collectors of modern-day tickets collect by machine number, so when installations take place we may well travel to the station in question to buy ticket/s to go straight in the collection. Little by little, a full picture is built up, and my lists get more comprehensive! Of course, the power of the internet can help ... I regularly search for e.g. press releases ("XYZ TOC is pleased to announce it has signed a contract for the installation of 238 self-service machines at its stations") to find out future plans and to know what to look out for. Recently, Northern changed its ticket office machines from Cubic FasTIS to Fujitsu STAR. This became apparent when a couple of stations were changed and one of my north of England-based fellow collectors let me know. I guessed correctly that because there had been about 220 Cubic FasTIS (cunningly numbered 0003-0225, plus a few outliers), there would be about 220 Fujitsu STAR appearing in the near future

My lists are primarily to tell me what I have and what I'm still missing. So for each type of system, I record each known machine number, 16-character location name (if known; for a system such as Avantix WebTIS, where a ticket will be issued at a central office from/to any station, it relies on somebody getting hold of something like a Receipt or Card Sales Voucher, which has the location name printed on it), National Location Code and window number, number of tickets I have from it and the date and serial number of the earliest - which helps give me an idea of when the machine was installed, if I haven't found out from e.g. a press release or news story. I also record when a machine is removed, but finding that out is a whole lot more tricky.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Fair enough, sounds like a decent project. My kind of area of interest is staffing and destaffing (basically threads like this!): I once found a list of Aptis and Portis machine locations, including installation and removal date, allowing destaffing dates to be calculated. It's still the most comprehensive list I've ever found anywhere of such dates.

 

[Hassocks5489]

Fair enough, sounds like a decent project. My kind of area of interest is staffing and destaffing (basically threads like this!): I once found a list of Aptis and Portis machine locations, including installation and removal date, allowing destaffing dates to be calculated. It's still the most comprehensive list I've ever found anywhere of such dates.

Would it be from here, by any chance? http://www.stannsulyn.dsl.pipex.com/machines/intro.htm Let's say, I know those lists very well...

 

[Matt Taylor]

The ticket agency at Chester le Street station operates with station usage at only 174,968; yet, conversely Hilsea at 287,638 is unstaffed!

Traffic at Hilsea consists almost entirely of workers going to and from the local factories etc, they buy their tickets at their origin station which is usually Fratton. The remaining passengers are mostly chancers who won't buy a ticket unless challenged so a ticket office is useless. There is a small number of people travelling in the early morning on seasons to London but they generally travel before 0700.

 

[Harpers Tate]

18 months ago the Daily Express were reporting the exact opposite; mass closures
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/269382/675-rail-ticket-offices-face-axe

 

[thelem]

I wonder what sort of level passenger numbers have to reach before opening a ticket office (or installing a ticket machine for that matter) at an unstaffed station becomes cost effective?

I struggle to understand how a station can be popular enough to warrant its existence, but not popular enough to justify installing what is basically a touch screen PC, printer and card reader.