Revenue Protection Inspectors at Cardiff

[ValleyLines142]

That does sound rather small - Leeds has far more (but then they're funnelling into a smaller gap and have the information screens just after them so people seem to go through and stop immediately).

It is way too small. There are the other two barriers on the left-hand side, with the elevators, but even so it's still not enough really.

 

[Hyphen]

It would be unfortunate timing as well, given the money spent on refurbishing the lifts roughly two years ago.

I didn't know that!

I was just throwing ideas about for improving capacity - I wasn't going to write to ATW to suggest it

 

[Clip]

I agree with this point. On the Underground where Revenue Inspectors are present the gateline is configured to accept the ticket/pass in the usual manner but also display a light where supporting documentation (e.g. Railcard/photocard/etc.) is required. This means that they are not creating undue congestion at the gateline, or delaying customers as much (for instance if the Inspectors are busy dealing with other customers then you pass through unimpeded). The Inspectors can also come to you rather than you having to go to them stood at the side, and it is much easier to spot and prevent those who pass through the gateline without putting any sort of ticket through whatsoever from doing so. In my opinion a much better strategy in terms of customer service, congestion control AND revenue protection!

I have only ever encountered them whilst entering the system - not on leaving it. During peak times anyone would be off like a shot if they saw an RPI after they had left the barriers approach them(the proper eveaders).

And whilst others have already mentioned this too you Dan, we are all busy people and we all have things to do and places to go but we also have the right to try and protect our fares from those who try to evade paying it. If that means we inconvenience you then sorry for that but blame your fellow man not the railway.

 

[ValleyLines142]

And whilst others have already mentioned this too you Dan, we are all busy people and we all have things to do and places to go but we also have the right to try and protect our fares from those who try to evade paying it. If that means we inconvenience you then sorry for that but blame your fellow man not the railway.

There is, however, a clear difference between having things to do and taking an age to do something. In other words, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they hurried up!

Regardless, I cannot be blamed in any way in this particular situation.

 

[Llanigraham]

There is, however, a clear difference between having things to do and taking an age to do something. In other words, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they hurried up!

Regardless, I cannot be blamed in any way in this particular situation.

They have a job to do, end of.

If every passenger bought the correct ticket every time they traveled and some didn't try to defraud the railway then there would be no need for these checks. Unfortunately not everyone is honest and therefore checks have to be made.

As you get older you will have to realise that the world isn't fair and sometimes you will get inconvenienced. Accept that now and life will be a lot easier for you.

 

[bb21]

They way I understand it is that you are moaning because you are regularly inconvenienced in revenue protection exercises?

Things are unlikely to change any time soon. So instead of moaning why not just plan these into your daily routine and treat it as a necessary part of travelling on the railway? That way you will be less likely bothered by it.

Until things change, I don't see any other way which would help you in the long run.

 

[gswindale]

There is, however, a clear difference between having things to do and taking an age to do something. In other words, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they hurried up!

Regardless, I cannot be blamed in any way in this particular situation.

There is also a clear difference between doing half a job and doing things in a thorough and methodical manner.

In other words, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they did it less thoroughly

I work in a service industry and I can tell you now that, every time we come across somebody who is demanding things are done faster, we find ways to put their needs down the queue and deal with those who are more polite and respectful. Worth bearing in mind?

 

[Gareth Marston]

They way I understand it is that you are moaning because you are regularly inconvenienced in revenue protection exercises?

Things are unlikely to change any time soon. So instead of moaning why not just plan these into your daily routine and treat it as a necessary part of travelling on the railway? That way you will be less likely bothered by it.

Until things change, I don't see any other way which would help you in the long run.

Interestingly no one with experience of the railcard barrier refusal is mentioning witnessing people being caught at Cardiff Central. Is this tactic now causing inconvenience rather than catching fraudulent travellers? No doubt this will be excused as deterrence but a balance must be struck. ATW will be shelling out to pay for the extra RPI presence this exercise entails as a Manager the financial considerations of ensuring a tight system will no doubt have to be weighed against the estimated leakage.

 

[Flamingo]

Oh, they are catching them ok...

 

[Gareth Marston]

Oh, they are catching them ok...

Got some stats? As someone who travels to Cardiff regularly on business I'm not aware of any incidences others may know different.

 

[Flamingo]

Just anecdotes from ATW staff. But there have been a few posts in this forum from the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on" brigade.

 

[DownSouth]

Just anecdotes from ATW staff. But there have been a few posts in this forum from the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on" brigade.

You're getting a bit lazy and forgetful on a Saturday, surely you're talking about the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on and I'm studying law" brigade.

 

[najaB]

Are they any relation to the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on and I'm studying law and the RPI used racist/sexist/abusive/threatening language" brigade?

 

[Mojo]

I have only ever encountered them whilst entering the system - not on leaving it. During peak times anyone would be off like a shot if they saw an RPI after they had left the barriers approach them(the proper eveaders).

They often stand on both sides of the gateline; in fact a recent court I was at the majority of people were caught on exiting - those on entry don't pay any compensation at the court; just a fine, victim surcharge and costs.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Just anecdotes from ATW staff. But there have been a few posts in this forum from the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on" brigade.

Shurely that's just normal behaviour up north and provides no clue as to possession of valid ticket or intent to defraud?lol:

 

[tony6499]

Are they any relation to the "I've never travelled without a ticket before and forgot where I got on and I'm studying law and the RPI used racist/sexist/abusive/threatening language" brigade?

...and I wasn't feeling well too

 

[Flamingo]

...and I wasn't feeling well too

Bless!

 

[radamfi]

Perhaps a future smartcard scheme could solve this issue by combining the railcard (or any other pass allowing a concession fare) and the ticket into one physical card - and removing the option to make a casual purchase of a discounted ticket.

You can already load certain railcards onto an Oyster card. On Dutch Railways, if you want discounted fares, you can now only get them by using the OV-Chipkaart smartcard with your photo on it.

 

[Flamingo]

I have to say, reading this thread, some of you are getting as cynical as me.

It's encouraging!

 

[34D]

...and I wasn't feeling well too

And would get sacked

 

[Flamingo]

Nobody said the anxiety issues yet!

 

[najaB]

Nobody said the anxiety issues yet!

Do you mean the issues caused by the sick/dying mother?

 

[ValleyLines142]

They have a job to do, end of.

If every passenger bought the correct ticket every time they traveled and some didn't try to defraud the railway then there would be no need for these checks. Unfortunately not everyone is honest and therefore checks have to be made.

As you get older you will have to realise that the world isn't fair and sometimes you will get inconvenienced. Accept that now and life will be a lot easier for you.

I'm not saying they don't, they just need to find a way of doing their job faster. You're making me out to be very unreasonable!

Accept that now and life will be a lot easier for you.

How have you come to that conclusion?

They way I understand it is that you are moaning because you are regularly inconvenienced in revenue protection exercises?

No, I'm complaining because they take a very long time to do so. I should not have to be delayed by this.

Things are unlikely to change any time soon. So instead of moaning why not just plan these into your daily routine and treat it as a necessary part of travelling on the railway? That way you will be less likely bothered by it.

It's when I'm exiting the station, so regardless of what time I arrive they're still going to be there. I can't decide when my train arrives sadly.

There is also a clear difference between doing half a job and doing things in a thorough and methodical manner.

In other words, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they did it less thoroughly

True, although there needs to be improvements. Simple as really.

I work in a service industry and I can tell you now that, every time we come across somebody who is demanding things are done faster, we find ways to put their needs down the queue and deal with those who are more polite and respectful. Worth bearing in mind?

Fair enough, although this isn't the case in my job and also not the case for an RPI.

I agree with this point. On the Underground where Revenue Inspectors are present the gateline is configured to accept the ticket/pass in the usual manner but also display a light where supporting documentation (e.g. Railcard/photocard/etc.) is required. This means that they are not creating undue congestion at the gateline, or delaying customers as much (for instance if the Inspectors are busy dealing with other customers then you pass through unimpeded). The Inspectors can also come to you rather than you having to go to them stood at the side, and it is much easier to spot and prevent those who pass through the gateline without putting any sort of ticket through whatsoever from doing so. In my opinion a much better strategy in terms of customer service, congestion control AND revenue protection!

Now THIS is an excellent idea. Both parties benefit. See, the world is a happy place!

Suggestions such as changing my plans are not beneficial!

What if there was a queueing system so that passengers with railcards/discounts go straight to the RPIs, show them their railcard or whatever they have and exit through, with RPIs even calling passengers to the queue. Then anyone with a normal ticket can use the barriers as they won't be rejected. Simples!

Because at the moment, people are fannying around between gates and it's just chaos.

And whilst people are queueing to leave, they can fetch their railcards out of their bags, thus creating a steady flow!

 

[Greenback]

No, I'm complaining because they take a very long time to do so. I should not have to be delayed by this.

It's probably statements like this that cause you to come across to some as being unreasonable. It sounds as if you are simply too important and special to ever be delayed when travelling!

Suggestions such as changing my plans are not beneficial!

I'm sure that these are only intended to help you to cope with the situation rather than possibly get upset and stressed every time you pass through the station and have to wait for a bit to get through the barriers.

I can't see anything changing at Cardiff Central in the short term. ATW management are well aware of the problems of arriving passengers and they want to send out a clear message to passengers that they will be caught out if they try and defraud the railway.

 

[richw]

I have to agree with DanTrainMan185 a passenger should not be delayed by revenue protection if they have valid documents. Any different is poor customer service to somebody who has valid documentation for travel.
This could be resolved by a sign stating if you have a railcard discounted ticket you must go to a set gate. Such a sign would remove the inconvenience and delay of doing to a gate then having to push back through the queues to get to another gate at the back of a queue.
Revenue protection should not be inconveniencing customers with valid tickets.
A sign in one of those freestanding signs they normally have containing information about special events, saying if you have a railcard discounted ticket to have your railcard ready and to go to the assisted gate would resolve all of the issues mentioned. The passenger would then have no grounds for moaning when they go to the wrong gate and don't have their railcard ready.
I imagine DanTrainMan185 isn't the only passenger getting irritated by a poorly conceived problem that is easily resolved by a sign giving passengers with a railcard instructions to go through the assisted gate line.

 

[Greenback]

I have to agree with DanTrainMan185 a passenger should not be delayed by revenue protection if they have valid documents. Any different is poor customer service to somebody who has valid documentation for travel.

But by the very definition, there will be a delay in determining whether a passenger has valid tickets and documentation. It's not instantaneous!

This could be resolved by a sign stating if you have a railcard discounted ticket you must go to a set gate. Such a sign would remove the inconvenience and delay of doing to a gate then having to push back through the queues to get to another gate at the back of a queue.

Not a bad idea, and I expect it would work in most places. But Cardiff Central is problematic due to the layout and small number of gates.

I imagine DanTrainMan185 isn't the only passenger getting irritated by a poorly conceived problem that is easily resolved by a sign giving passengers with a railcard instructions to go through the assisted gate line.

It won't alter the fact that passengers with railcards will still have to wait while their documentation is inspected, which is what Dan appears to dislike most.

There is a well known problem with passengers easily buying discounted tickets online, or at TVM's, and the only way to try and eliminate this is for such people to know they have very little chance of getting away with it. It's a crackdown that is designed to permanently alter behaviour, and once you back down chancers will realise that they will be able to sneak through on the majority of occasions and we'll be back to square one!

I'm sorry but I strongly believe that inconveniencing people by a few seconds or minutes is a necessary evil until other methods are introduced to make it more difficult to buy discounted tickets without holding a railcard.

It isn't really much different to when I was a child. I remember shuffling along in a big queue when tickets were manually inspected and taken from you for accounting purposes on entering and leaving a platform area. It was only when BR introduced open stations that we were able to enter and leave unimpeded and without significant delay. Passengers were used to it in the old days and just saw it as part of travelling.

 

[jon0844]

I agree that if there aren't signs to tell people with railcards to go to the manual gate, and to have them ready for inspection, then perhaps staff should be calling out to approaching passengers periodically to ask.

It is silly when a ticket is set to be rejected, and people don't know. They aren't simply going to come back to seek help, which inconveniences those behind as it is, as they'll invariably try again and perhaps again - causing problems for them and the people tutting and getting frustrated behind. After all, the person knows their ticket IS valid so why not try again in case?

It can probably be quite stressful for some people too*, as if you suddenly get your ticket rejected, does that mean it isn't valid? Now you have to go and seek help and potentially get a penalty fare or worse?

What's more, posters saying to have railcards ready and that they'll be checked means speeding things up because people don't need to be asked when they're now blocking the gate - and, yup, there's the obvious benefit: the deterrent factor. Once it's clear that railcards are checked, you suddenly stop to think about whether there's any advantage buying a discounted ticket that isn't going to work.

* I can say this with good reason, as I once saw a school kid looking particularly worried when his ticket didn't work coming in (presumably worried about not being able to travel, and possibly not having enough money to buy a new ticket).

 

[Greenback]

It's a good point about it being worrying when a valid ticket is rejected. Although I'm not convinced that all of the suggestions made in this thread will work in Cardiff, I think that sings and announcements directing people to the manual gate will help to reinforce the ATW message that it will be very difficult to get away with using a discounted ticket without the appropriate railcard.

 

[richw]

It won't alter the fact that passengers with railcards will still have to wait while their documentation is inspected, which is what Dan appears to dislike most. .

I'd interpreted his main issue was going to one gate then having to go through the queue to get to another gate as being the cause for the main wait.
If a railcard holder is directed to the correct queue in the first place it will reduce this delay by potentially half as the queues seem to be the main cause of the delay. Hypothetically you've queued up for several minutes at a gate only to find you need to then queue at another gate for a few minutes you wouldn't be happy, and it would not happen in any other industry.

I've yet to encounter a RPI fully exam my railcard more than a look at the date and photo and given a thanks and off I go.

 

[Greenback]

I'd interpreted his main issue was going to one gate then having to go through the queue to get to another gate as being the cause for the main wait.

That was the case originally, however I read his more recent posts as being more along the lines that the RPI's are too slow.

In reality, it's probably both.

If a railcard holder is directed to the correct queue in the first place it will reduce this delay by potentially half as the queues seem to be the main cause of the delay. Hypothetically you've queued up for several minutes at a gate only to find you need to then queue at another gate for a few minutes you wouldn't be happy, and it would not happen in any other industry.

You don't queue for several minutes at the barriers in Cardiff Central. Although it can be slow, and cramped, we are talking more like 30 seconds in my experience. Not that I want to get bogged in semantics!

I accept that the delay could be longer once you reach the manual barrier, but again, when I have had to use this with my Valleys Day Ranger, it has only taken seconds. I concede it may take longer at busy times.

I've yet to encounter a RPI fully exam my railcard more than a look at the date and photo and given a thanks and off I go.

I imagine that is the most they do at Cardiff too, at least in the majority of cases. The purpose of the checks are to ensure that the person has a railcard, that it is in date, and, in the case of photocards, that they look a little like the person carrying the card.

Queuing for things, and being delayed is part of life. I can't always drive straight up to the pump when buying petrol, mostly I have to wait. I often think checkout operators don't go fast enough, but the fact is that they do their job properly and rushing causes mistakes. I don't always get served at the bar straight away, either, unfortunately!