Will the class 68 loco oprerate on the GOBLIN line

[electrolux]

Hi I would like to know if the class 68 locomotive is likely to operate on the Gospel Oak to Barking Line this is because it's my local line that's most convenient for me, or perhaps it is unknown where it will operate.

 

[455driver]

The class 68 is an express passenger loco, why would it operate on a little branch line?

They might cover the line when working a railroad or an ECS move etc but I don't see any reason they would routinely work over the line.

 

[47802]

The class 68 is an express passenger loco, why would it operate on a little branch line?

They might cover the line when working a railroad or an ECS move etc but I don't see any reason they would routinely work over the line.

Didn't you know they are going to be the solution to the TPX problem, Push pull 68's using 2 cars from a 442, will release 172's to LM which will in turn release 170's back to TPX.

 

[swt_passenger]

The class 68 is an express passenger loco, why would it operate on a little branch line?

Is that why all the videos so far have it storming along the WCML at the head of container trains?

 

[Tubeboy]

The class 68 is an express passenger loco, why would it operate on a little branch line?

It is a mixed traffic loco. So it could well work on the Goblin hauling intermodals.

 

[Domh245]

Are there lots of intermodals over the goblin? There are quite a few over the NLL, and the WLL, but those will probably utilise 88s if they are DRS at all.

 

[samuelmorris]

I thought the electrification of this branch was primarily intended to enable electric-hauled freight?

 

[Beveridges]

Anywhere where there are DRS intermodals will no doubt get 68s!!

 

[Domh245]

Having looked at Realtime Trains, there would appear to be a fair number of Freights (although still less than the WLL)

 

[RichmondCommu]

From my experience the vast majority if not all of the intermodal freight running through North London tends to be in the hand of Freightliner. In which case I would suggest that the appearance of DRS locos is likely to be limited. Just saying!

 

[455driver]

It is a mixed traffic loco. So it could well work on the Goblin hauling intermodals.

It might be classed as a mixed traffic loco but it is primarily aimed at the passenger side of things, it hasn't got enough axles or the gearing to be a decent freight engine so although it can haul freight (just like any other loco can) it won't be replacing any of the 59s, 60s or 66s on the heavyweight stuff anytime soon. A lightweight freight yes but a heavy one? No chance.
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Is that why all the videos so far have it storming along the WCML at the head of container trains?

What is the weight of that container train?
I bet it isn't over 2000tonnes.

 

[The Planner]

If it ran on 4S44 on Friday then 1173 tonnes trailing.

 

[electrolux]

It is a mixed traffic loco. So it could well work on the Goblin hauling intermodals.

what does 'intermodals' mean?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

what does 'intermodals' mean?

Containers. They are designed to transported by multiple modes of transport (sea, rail, road) hence the name.

 

[electrolux]

Are there lots of intermodals over the goblin? There are quite a few over the NLL, and the WLL, but those will probably utilise 88s if they are DRS at all.

Iv'e never seen an 88 but there are plenty of DRS 66's, yeah I know it's common but I still like it, who doesn't?

 

[455driver]

So a lightweight freight then, thank you "The Planner".

To all the 'but it is a mixed traffic loco'-
If it is a proper mixed traffic loco when is it going to be used out of Westbury on a 3000 tonne stone train then?
Why did BR decide that mixed traffic locos are jot the way to go and opted for locos designed for specific duties?
56 and 58 for freight etc?
All the previous 'mixed traffic' locos were okay at everything but not good at anything!

 

[Oswyntail]

....
Why did BR decide that mixed traffic locos are jot the way to go and opted for locos designed for specific duties?....

That is fine if you have a large enough business base, and the ability to have a large enough fleet to specialise. Obviously DBS do, but DRS is much smaller and needs stuff that can cope with the lower end of freight work and passenger. Hence a mixed-traffic engine. The idea of them being used out of Westbury is, frankly, another straw man.:roll:

 

[ac6000cw]

So a lightweight freight then, thank you "The Planner".

To all the 'but it is a mixed traffic loco'-
If it is a proper mixed traffic loco when is it going to be used out of Westbury on a 3000 tonne stone train then?
Why did BR decide that mixed traffic locos are jot the way to go and opted for locos designed for specific duties?
56 and 58 for freight etc?
All the previous 'mixed traffic' locos were okay at everything but not good at anything!

The quoted starting tractive effort for the '68' is 317 kN - this is about 3/4 of that of a '66' (at 409 kN), so the 68 is hardly a puny 'passenger only' locomotive. It also uses modern AC traction drive, so it it should have better wheelslip control (and no minimum continuous speed, like DC drive EMD's usually have).

DRS have always said that they see the 68's primarily as 'fast-freight' locos with passenger capability, and the higher power rating c.f. a 66 will enable a 68 to maintain high tractive effort at higher speeds to give better acceleration - important when you are 'mixing it' with passenger trains on the WCML.

...and a quote from http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../class-68-uklight-locomotives-take-shape.html :

"The Class 68’s mixed-traffic capability means that it is likely to undertake a wide variety of duties for the operator. DRS says it would be capable of ‘at least matching’ the performance of its EMD Class 66 fleet on intermodal services, which include daily time-sensitive flows between southern England and Scotland over the West Coast Main Line operated in partnership with logistics group WH Malcolm."

 

[al.currie93]

Iv'e never seen an 88 but there are plenty of DRS 66's, yeah I know it's common but I still like it, who doesn't?

I see you joined yesterday so welcome to the forum!

The class 88s haven't been built yet work will start on them once the 68s are complete, but they'll probably look like a 68 with a pantograph :P

With regards to seeing 68s, I'd say that the GOBLIN is probably a less likely place to see them on freight with DRS, but I'm not too familiar with freight paths so I could be wrong! However, while freight locomotives have their usual stomping grounds, they can (especially with DRS and Colas who have varied fleets) appear anywhere, so it's entirely possible that you could see them on the GOBLIN on freight, if not then the nearby North London Line is another possibility. Passenger workings with DRS will likely be charters, so they could be anywhere.

However, as the GOBLIN is your local line, you should be able to easily get to Marylebone, where you will definitely be able to see Class 68s with Chiltern Railways when they start using them in the next year or so so that's probably your best bet to see the 68s locally

 

[electrolux]

I see
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Containers. They are designed to transported by multiple modes of transport (sea, rail, road) hence the name.

I see
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I see you joined yesterday so welcome to the forum!

The class 88s haven't been built yet work will start on them once the 68s are complete, but they'll probably look like a 68 with a pantograph :P

With regards to seeing 68s, I'd say that the GOBLIN is probably a less likely place to see them on freight with DRS, but I'm not too familiar with freight paths so I could be wrong! However, while freight locomotives have their usual stomping grounds, they can (especially with DRS and Colas who have varied fleets) appear anywhere, so it's entirely possible that you could see them on the GOBLIN on freight, if not then the nearby North London Line is another possibility. Passenger workings with DRS will likely be charters, so they could be anywhere.

However, as the GOBLIN is your local line, you should be able to easily get to Marylebone, where you will definitely be able to see Class 68s with Chiltern Railways when they start using them in the next year or so so that's probably your best bet to see the 68s locally

Well I did A Google for 'class 88 loco' but I must have miss typed because it came up with some other train that I didn't recognise
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The quoted starting tractive effort for the '68' is 317 kN - this is about 3/4 of that of a '66' (at 409 kN), so the 68 is hardly a puny 'passenger only' locomotive. It also uses modern AC traction drive, so it it should have better wheelslip control (and no minimum continuous speed, like DC drive EMD's usually have).

DRS have always said that they see the 68's primarily as 'fast-freight' locos with passenger capability, and the higher power rating c.f. a 66 will enable a 68 to maintain high tractive effort at higher speeds to give better acceleration - important when you are 'mixing it' with passenger trains on the WCML.

...and a quote from http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../class-68-uklight-locomotives-take-shape.html :

"The Class 68’s mixed-traffic capability means that it is likely to undertake a wide variety of duties for the operator. DRS says it would be capable of ‘at least matching’ the performance of its EMD Class 66 fleet on intermodal services, which include daily time-sensitive flows between southern England and Scotland over the West Coast Main Line operated in partnership with logistics group WH Malcolm."

Ah, my chance to ask another question, what exactly is 'kn'?

 

[Beveridges]

The 68 will probably be a bit slower than a 66 to get up to about 10mph on a heavy load due to the lower starting tractive effort, but once it's got going, it's acceleration from 10mph up to 75mph should be better.

 

[Marklund]

KiloNewton. A measurement of Force.

 

[Yew]

Ah, my chance to ask another question, what exactly is 'kn'?

Its the amount of force a man can exert before going 'knnnnnn' the next level up is going '1, 2, 3, hurrrghh' and below is 'ooft'


However, kn actually means Kilo newtons, ie; a thousand newtons

 

[ac6000cw]

Well I did A Google for 'class 88 loco' but I must have miss typed because it came up with some other train that I didn't recognise

Some info on the Class 88 here - http://www.modern-railways.com/view_article.asp?id=6788

Ah, my chance to ask another question, what exactly is 'kn'?

I wondered at the time if I should quote the modern SI units or old Imperial units for force ('tractive effort' is the force that a loco exerts at the coupling hook to move the train, basically). Yes, that science stuff you learnt (are learning ?) at school is relevant to the real world of the railway - Newton's laws of motion do have their uses

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, kn actually means Kilo newtons, ie; a thousand newtons

To be slightly pedantic, I think it should really be kilonewtons or kN (the unit is named after Sir Issac Newton, the famous physicist/mathematician, so the symbol is a capital 'N', but SI rules mean it's newton, not Newton, when written out in full - and it's always lower-case 'k' for kilo)

 

[edwin_m]

What is the weight of that container train?
I bet it isn't over 2000tonnes.

Is there a container train over 2000 tonnes running anywhere? The heaviest I have found is 1600.

 

[455driver]

Is there a container train over 2000 tonnes running anywhere? The heaviest I have found is 1600.

Havent got a clue but what I do know is a 4 axle loco will struggle in low adhesion scenarios no matter how clever the electronic bits are at controlling the wheelslip.

What is the route availability of these locos?
Is it 6 or 7?

So these 68 thingys are medium weight freight locos which will also haul passenger trains then! Potayto potahto!

 

[The Planner]

68s are RA7, heaviest container trains hit around 1800 tonnes.

 

[Beveridges]

The heaviest container trains use higher end power than 66s.

Usually 70s, 86s, 90s and 92s.

The 68s will simply be used on the currently 66 hauled stuff.

 

[ac6000cw]

Just as a quick 6-axle DC drive versus 4-axle AC drive performance comparison, currently the biggest US diesel loco supplier, GE, is offering a version of their normal 6-axle AC drive freight loco with only 4 axles powered (A1A-A1A axle configuration) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Evolution_Series#ES44C4

The idea is that these cost (and perform) about the same as their DC-drive, 6 powered axle equivalents. The jury is probably still out on the relative real-world performance, but one of the big US railroads is amassing a sizeable fleet of them, so they are presumably convinced.

 

[Bevan Price]

If it ran on 4S44 on Friday then 1173 tonnes trailing.

Class 68 ran only as far as Crewe on both Friday & Monday. Train continued northwards behind a Class 66 (which had been "dead in tow" south of Crewe)