Stopped by Northern Rail Revenue Protection

[JamesHeath]

Hi,

I'm just looking for some help/advice. I live in Buckshaw Village and commute most days to Preston for University, which is a 10 minute Northern Rail Journey.

A couple of days ago I went to Buckshaw Parkway station early in the morning and bought 2 return tickets to Preston, as I had to go into Preston, return home and then return to Preston again later that day.

So i went into Preston quickly, then came back home. When I got home I took everything out of my pockets, including the tickets, and left them on the side.

I then went back to Buckshaw Parkway station later on and got on the train back to Preston without realizing I hadn't picked up the tickets from my house. While I was on the train I realized I didn't have them and thought i'd just buy them from the guard if he came along, but he didn't.

So i got to Preston and walked towards the exit through the subway. The Revenue Protection people were stood at the door and asked for my ticket. I explained the situation that I had left the ticket at home and told him that I would have bought another on the train but no guard came along. He wrote everything down and asked me to sign. He seemed decent enough about everything. He asked if i had ever been stopped before, i said no, he then said i would get a letter in about 6 weeks that I would need to respond to and he said I would need to buy another ticket for my return journey.

So I bought a return ticket an hour or two later, meaning i now have 3 return tickets from Preston to Buckshaw for this one day.

I've been reading around on here and heard I could either get a fine or a court summons. If I get a court summons, which knowing my luck I probably will, would I have a case of pleading not guilty because I had bought the tickets previously and just didn't have them with me, I can obviously prove this.. And I paid again for the return. But what do you think is likely to happen?

Thanks for your help!

James

 

[bb21]

If a prosecution is brought under the Railway Byelaws, you have no defence, since you were unable to present a valid ticket on demand, despite passing an opportunity to pay at your origin station. The fact that you have left the ticket at home does not provide a defence.

If a prosecution is brought under the Regulation of Railways Act, then you may have a defence.

Do you still have all three tickets?

 

[JamesHeath]

Thanks for the fast reply.

Yes I've got all 3 tickets, as well as all 3 receipts and can have a bank statement printed.

What exactly is the difference between the Railway Byelaws and Regulation of Railways Act in terms of a criminal conviction coming from this? Can a criminal conviction come from both?

 

[najaB]

So i got to Preston and walked towards the exit through the subway.

Unfortunately, this may count against you since fare dodgers tend to use the subway rather than the bridge.

 

[cuccir]

Northern tend to offer a £80 out of court settlement to first time offenders. However they may well write to you v first, asking for your account of the incident. Furthermore they do not have to offer this and if for any reason they suspect you are lying, they may seek to prosecute

 

[JamesHeath]

Unfortunately, this may count against you since fare dodgers tend to use the subway rather than the bridge.

But if it goes to court surely there going to have a hard time trying to convince a judge i'm 'fare dodging' when i'd already bought the tickets in the morning and just didn't have them with me.. I have all 3 tickets and can obviously prove this. What if someone buys a ticket and genuinely loose's it? Do they face a criminal record as well?

There's a bylaw that states you need to be able to hand over a ticket when asked so I suppose they could prosecute me under that, but if i'm prosecuted under a bylaw that doesn't come with a criminal record right?

 

[bb21]

Byelaws shouldn't result in a criminal record. RoRA will, but the latter requires intent which you may have a defence for.

 

[najaB]

But if it goes to court surely there going to have a hard time trying to convince a judge i'm 'fare dodging' when i'd already bought the tickets in the morning and just didn't have them with me.. I have all 3 tickets and can obviously prove this. What if someone buys a ticket and genuinely loose's it? Do they face a criminal record as well?

Others are better placed to fill in the detail, but my understanding is that TOC's are generally open to out of court settlements. They will only proceed all the way to court with a Regulation of Railways prosecution where there's clear evidence of fare evasion and a reasonable chance of a guilty verdict. IANAL, but my opinion is that they wouldn't be likely to do so in this case if you still have an unused ticket that was purchased earlier (especially if you bought it using a card that's in your name).

There's a bylaw that states you need to be able to hand over a ticket when asked so I suppose they could prosecute me under that, but if i'm prosecuted under a bylaw that doesn't come with a criminal record right?

That is correct. As far as the Byelaws are concerned, it doesn't matter what you did before or after the fact - if you don't have a ticket when there was an opportunity to buy one then you are in violation. You are also correct that a byelaw prosecution does not carry the risk of a criminal record.

 

[JamesHeath]

Ok, thank you all for your replies!

Yes all 3 tickets were bought on a card in my name, i have the original tickets, banking receipts, bank statement, everything to prove that..

Obviously an £80 out of court settlement would be the best outcome but if that doesn't happen and it goes straight to court, have you heard success stories of people calling Northern in particular and offering them an out of court settlement?

If they do take me to court under the Regulation of Railways Act then I will plead not guilty as I can't understand how I could be convicted as having intent to not pay when I had already paid.. Can anyone recommend any solicitors who have experience in railway law that would be able to help me with that?

Thanks again!

 

[najaB]

Before you call the solicitors, wait and see what Northern do. It's not impossible that they just let you off with a warning and costs.

 

[455driver]

You are getting way ahead of yourself, stop, step back and take a deep breath.

They will send you a letter in a couple of months asking for your side of the story, put down what actually happened and wait for them to process it, 99.999% of the time they will offer a settlement of an £80 admin charge and a warning to be more careful. The other 0.001% of the time they will prosecute but I cannot in any way see that happening in this case unless you have been careless in the past.

 

[JamesHeath]

Ok well thank you, I can only wait to see what they do I suppose