Oyster maximum fare for a long journey?!!!

[teo113]

Hi I'd like some of your words of wisdom on this scenario:

Yesterday evening around 8pm I boarded a train from Waterloo to Clapham Junction where I was to change for a fast train to Twickenham.

I tapped in at Waterloo with about £7 on my card, got on my train, arrived at Clapham junction where I proceeded to the correct platform to twickenham. i had a 15-20min wait (with hindsight, I should have waited for a fast train from waterloo, not Clapham Junct. Silly me). For reasons you don't need to know, I fell asleep on a bench at the end of the platform! Anyway I woke up a few hours later and boarded a train to Twickenham.

When I tapped out there, the red light on the machine lit and beeped: 'Seek assistance: 36'.

I believe error code 36 means- out of money. this led me to believe I had been charged a penalty maximum fare on my card which took the balance into minus figures.

1. why didn't it show the minus balance on the machine when i tapped out? why did it do an error instead?
2. Why did I get a penalty fare in the first place! is there a max journey time limit? which is pretty stupid...
thanks

 

[yorkie]

For clarirty, you are charged a "maximum" fare (which is not the same as a Penalty Fare) when you enter, and are refunded the difference between that, and the fare due, when you touch out, providing you're within the maximum journey time.

If you do not touch out within the maximum journey time, then you won't be refunded any of the maximum fare charged on entry, and the system will also attempt to charge you another maximum fare on exit! This is also known as an "unresolved journey" (or two).

You can try contacting the Oyster Helpdesk, explaining what happened, and they may be able to help. Providing you don't make a habit of this, for a one-off, I'd be hopeful they would be able to "resolve" the journey so that the correct amount is charged. If so, you could then pick up a refund next time you travel.

Note that you could have been issued with a Penalty Fare; you can avoid this in future by enabling "auto top-up".

 

[teo113]

ok thanks for the clarification. but... i have now registered my oyster online and see a balance of £1.50. this suggests i was simply charged a normal fare for that long journey. maybe their systems figured it out?

either way isnt this 'max journey time' limit a bit silly considering people could be delayed mid journey?

 

[bb21]

Yes, the system automatically recognises some situations and refunds the maximum fare at the end of the day.

The maximum journey time is sufficient for most people, even with some delay allowances built in. It is there to stop people going a massively long way round (which may require additional fare) or spending all day in the system for the price of a single fare. If there are severe delays, the system should recognise it and refund automatically at the end of the day, or you could seek a refund by ringing Oyster Helpline.

It is not silly because you don't understand it or because you don't agree with it.

 

[MikeWh]

ok thanks for the clarification. but... i have now registered my oyster online and see a balance of £1.50. this suggests i was simply charged a normal fare for that long journey. maybe their systems figured it out?

either way isnt this 'max journey time' limit a bit silly considering people could be delayed mid journey?

When you touched out at Twickenham, were you using gates or a platform validator? If it was a platform validator then the system will have assumed you were trying to enter. When entering you must have the minimum required fare for a journey from that station, in the case of Twickenham that is £1.60. You claim to have had about £7 at the start. If you touched in at 8pm it would have deducted £5.10 as the unfinished journey charge. I therefore think you may have had £6.60 as that would leave you with £1.50.

I concur with yorkie, if you call the helpdesk and explain what happened they should arrange a refund of £2.10 so that you have paid the correct £3 fare for Waterloo to Twickenham off-peak.

 

[hassaanhc]

When you touched out at Twickenham, were you using gates or a platform validator? If it was a platform validator then the system will have assumed you were trying to enter. When entering you must have the minimum required fare for a journey from that station, in the case of Twickenham that is £1.60. You claim to have had about £7 at the start. If you touched in at 8pm it would have deducted £5.10 as the unfinished journey charge. I therefore think you may have had £6.60 as that would leave you with £1.50.

I concur with yorkie, if you call the helpdesk and explain what happened they should arrange a refund of £2.10 so that you have paid the correct £3 fare for Waterloo to Twickenham off-peak.

I believe there are both barriers and standalone validators at Twickenham, depending on the entrance/exit used. Anyway, I'm more surprised the OP wasn't woken by a member of staff, many platforms do have dispatch staff on them!

 

[455driver]

Hi 2. Why did I get a penalty fare in the first place! is there a max journey time limit? which is pretty stupid...
thanks

Yes there is a time limit.
So what do you propose instead to charge people who try and take the p155 out of the system?

Why catch a train from Waterloo to Clapham jn to change onto another train which started at Waterloo? That is stupid!

What time did you travel because i find your-

I proceeded to the correct platform to twickenham. i had a 15-20min wait

hard to believe as there are frequent trains to Twickenham from Clapham jn (about 12 an hour in the evening) with nop bigger gap than 8 minutes.

 

[londonboi]

There was severe disruption all night last night 455 driver due to the signal problems at clapham junction in the afternoon SWT cancelled ALLOT of services last night to the OP is possibly telling the truth about the wait time at calpham junction

 

[455driver]

RTT doesnt seem to show anything (as in no trains reported, not that there wasnt disruption) so Icannot check, I wasnt working yesterday so cant check anyhow.

20 minutes is still a very long wait for a train to Twickenham bearing in mind the Readings, Windsors, Hounslows and Kingstons all call there, 20 minutes means there must have been serious disruption which would normally have been reported on this forum.

 

[yorkie]

ok thanks for the clarification. but... i have now registered my oyster online and see a balance of £1.50. this suggests i was simply charged a normal fare for that long journey. maybe their systems figured it out?

Can you log into your Oyster Online account and save a screenshot of your journey history and upload it as an attachment here?

If you've not registered for Oyster Online, you'd need to obtain a printout at a station, and take a photo or scan of it. We can then take a look at it.

 

[MikeWh]

RTT doesnt seem to show anything (as in no trains reported, not that there wasnt disruption) so Icannot check, I wasnt working yesterday so cant check anyhow.

20 minutes is still a very long wait for a train to Twickenham bearing in mind the Readings, Windsors, Hounslows and Kingstons all call there, 20 minutes means there must have been serious disruption which would normally have been reported on this forum.

I think your line of thinking here is a little suspect. Have you never done something which with the benefit of hindsight turns out to be the wrong move? I know I have. I'm sure that the OP knows that they've been silly and don't need the likes of us to give them the spanish inquisition. Don't forget, this isn't an "I've been caught and threatened with court" thread. If the OP follows our advice (to call the helpdesk) they will be reimbursed and everyone will be happy.

 

[cjohnson]

20 minutes is still a very long wait for a train to Twickenham bearing in mind the Readings, Windsors, Hounslows and Kingstons all call there, 20 minutes means there must have been serious disruption which would normally have been reported on this forum.

Lightning strike at Clapham Jct (and also Vauxhall later on?) meant the Hounslow loop was suspended for a while yesterday, with some knock-ons to Windsors etc.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/76520.aspx

 

[455driver]

Lightning strike at Clapham Jct (and also Vauxhall later on?) meant the Hounslow loop was suspended for a while yesterday, with some knock-ons to Windsors etc.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/76520.aspx

Normally I would have got a text about stuff like that but didnt get anything yesterday (must give my sources a kick up the rear ) and that would also explain the lack of train reports!

Why does nothing like that happen when I am at work? :roll:

 

[hassaanhc]

RTT doesnt seem to show anything (as in no trains reported, not that there wasnt disruption) so Icannot check, I wasnt working yesterday so cant check anyhow.

20 minutes is still a very long wait for a train to Twickenham bearing in mind the Readings, Windsors, Hounslows and Kingstons all call there, 20 minutes means there must have been serious disruption which would normally have been reported on this forum.

Hounslow loop circular services both directions cancelled throughout when I used the line to Hounslow around 7-8pm (plus 1J91 1923 Waterloo-Surbiton only as well, which I was originally intending to use ). It was the Windsor side lines that appeared to be affected the most.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Normally I would have got a text about stuff like that but didnt get anything yesterday (must give my sources a kick up the rear ) and that would also explain the lack of train reports!

Why does nothing like that happen when I am at work? :roll:

The first I saw of it was after turning up at Waterloo and going to the subway to record some announcements, where I randomly heard the "We are sorry to announce..." announcement for the 1907 via Brentford & Hounslow*. Normally I check beforehand but there you go (1852 Weybridge departed some 15 late while 1922 Weybridge departed 5 late after showing "Expd 1930" :P)

*There was a manual announcement just before it which I didn't hear in the subway, only the echo from upstairs, and I reported this to them on Twitter

 

[455driver]

A lightening strike will f++k the job up a treat so a 20 minute wait is quite plausible.

 

[teo113]

wow thank you all for your sound knowledge! I was a bit annoyed after the incident but it's fine now.

to clear up,
-when i got to CLJ, I waited for the fast train to twicks (ie. the one that goes putney/richmond/twicks). which even on a good day, they leave every 20 mins or so (i believe?)

-I used the validator on exit at twicks as the gates are always inaccessible at night.

-since checking yesterday, my balance has gone from £1.50 to £1.25 without using my card at all since the time in question. anyone know why?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Real Time Trains shows that there were no delays to any services arriving AND departing Twickenham between 2000 and 2200. There are a few variations to the timetables on the Windsor and the Hounslow Loop services, but even so they still weren't delayed.

But even so, I agree with what MikeWh says about us all making mistakes. I certainly did when I first started using Oyster. Have a look at my experience on this thread!

 

[hassaanhc]

But even so, I agree with what MikeWh says about us all making mistakes. I certainly did when I first started using Oyster. Have a look at my experience on this thread!

I managed to have problems twice within a week after nothing for years, the first one was doing a circular journey starting at a standalone validator and touching again at same station more than 30 minutes later (plans changed to had to return), luckily I limited myself to one max fare by taking DLR one station and walking back. Next time I exceeded max journey time by less than 5 minutes, and it was there I found out that touching back in on barriers at same station within a short time continues the first journey. That included a 10 minute wait for train after first touch in, and the last touch was on a standalone validator so two max fares (one got automatically refunded although it did expire on first attempt as I didn't use nominated station for a week, the other I didn't bother with)

 

[bb21]

-since checking yesterday, my balance has gone from £1.50 to £1.25 without using my card at all since the time in question. anyone know why?

Can you post a copy of your usage statement? They can be obtained from any LU ticket office if you don't have an online one.

 

[455driver]

Real Time Trains shows that there were no delays to any services arriving AND departing Twickenham between 2000 and 2200. There are a few variations to the timetables on the Windsor and the Hounslow Loop services, but even so they still weren't delayed.

RTT (or C+++B) wasnt showing any information for trains running from about 1430ish to end of service (2S72 did report at 2243 though) on 13 May so where did you get the info from?