Passengers who spread over two seats

[Phlip]

Why were you sat at a table of four if there was just you? Don't you think that's selfish?

What if you're 6' plus and there's insufficient room in 'airline' style seats for you to sit without having your knees rammed hard up against the seat in front?

That's the case for me on Northern 158s (which I commute on everyday), so I sit at a table.

 

[hymekboy]

"Ticket for the bag" Brilliant...must try that one myself! Thanks

 

[reb0118]

"Ticket for the bag"

You can find it in the Avantix. Set up a single fare for the journey required. There will be a selection for Adults, Children, and AAA (Animals & Associated Articles). Select AAA and issue as normal, it will print out a luggage ticket. The fare is set as a half up to the maximum of £5.

You can also issue a full adult single for the journey required if you think that will act as more of a deterrent.

 

[TUC]

I think its perfectly reasonable for people to use laptops on trains as long as they try their best to keep within their own space. After all, they're a normal part of everyday life and of course people are going to do work ,watch movies etc on long journeys.

What doesn't help is how tables on modern trains tend to be narrower on the aisle side, making it even more difficult to fit even a reasonable amount of things on the table.

 

[Flamingo]

You can find it in the Avantix. Set up a single fare for the journey required. There will be a selection for Adults, Children, and AAA (Animals & Associated Articles). Select AAA and issue as normal, it will print out a luggage ticket. The fare is set as a half up to the maximum of £5.

You can also issue a full adult single for the journey required if you think that will act as more of a deterrent.

If a ticket doesn't entitle a person to a seat, it certainly doesn't entitle a bag to a seat.

The two options are move it to a luggage space or remove it from the train. I don't allow any if's or but's.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I sat on a table seat on my own on a 377 the other day, with my hand luggage on the seat next to me. The carriage I was in had just five people come arrival at Milton Keynes Central, so I don't see that as being rude or anti-social et cetera.

To karmically balance it out, I did stand from Clapham Junction to after Berkhamsted!(I normally sit down after WFJ, but I fell asleep while standing nestled in the right hand set of doors).

 

[ValleyLines142]

I try and avoid table seats, purely because of the selfish little business types who whip out their laptop and convert what is supposed to be a table for FOUR (notice my emphasis on FOUR!!) into an office, where they have sheets, plugs, briefcases and jackets spread out across the whole table (and sometimes seats across) like a sandwich buffet. It gets right on my <insert crude part of the body>!!!

This has even happened on horrendously busy services, such as the 0730 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads and the 1654 return. It is a complete lack of respect and makes me ashamed that our society behaves as so.

CrossCountry are the only TOC who enforce seat reservations even if they are not displayed, for whatever reason. I have personal evidence of this in an email I received from them telling me this information.

If, however, I have a reserved seat on another TOC's service and there is no label, am I really entitled to compensation? If so, I'd have been a millionnaire months ago!!

 

[sng7]

Definitely scotrail have that in the passenger charter entitling you to a refund of about 5% (if I remember correctly) if you have a reservation but cannot get a seat

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If a ticket doesn't entitle a person to a seat, it certainly doesn't entitle a bag to a seat.

Posting of the day....

 

[fowler9]

Posting of the day....

So then it entitles no one to anything. Back to square one. Ha ha.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So then it entitles no one to anything. Back to square one. Ha ha.

Can you imagine a RPI approaching the bag on the seat and asking to see the ticket it purchased..

 

[StoneRoad]

Some years ago I was a guard on a narrow-gauge railway.
Several times the overcrowding was made worse by enormous back-packers expecting seats for their rucksacks. If they would not put them into the van, or otherwise out of the way, then I'ld expect them to pay for a child fare ! That usually resulted in another seat becoming accessible.
On more than one trip I had to "reserve" at least part of the non-corridor stock for bikes / rucksacks - my best score was over a dozen "mountain" bikes into one carriage.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Had a trip to London yesterday and the biggest woman I've ever seen (honestly) lumbered onto the 378 I was on. Now, my wife has a couple of horses and their rear ends looked positively pert compared with this lady. Needless to say the two seats that she needed to accommodate her just disappeared under her sheer bulk. I'm not a nasty person (usually) but any compassion I might have felt for her "condition" totally disappeared as she put her skanky trainers up on the opposing seat. Disgusting.

As a side thought....I'm still wondering how she got through the barriers - gate job I suppose......

Her feet reach the seats on the other side of a 378? How tall was she?!

 

[tsr]

Can you imagine a RPI approaching the bag on the seat and asking to see the ticket it purchased..

The solution with regards to bikes requiring reservations is mandatory attachment of the ticket to a visible part of the article in question.

I see no reason why a bag taking up a substantial space should not be required to have any ticket attached & visible to a guard.

Anything like this can also have potential to reduce any lost property location issues. For example, it is possible to say that a bag was likely to have been left behind by Station X if it was part of a booking with a mandatory reservation.

Note that I am not actually saying it is advisable to allow a bag to take up a seat.

 

[fowler9]

I would be interested to know if since your ticket doesn't entitle you to a seat would any conductor try and charge you for putting your bag on a seat anyway which some people seem determined should happen? Ha ha.

 

[Parallel]

Laptops and paperwork taking up a whole table really does annoy me, not so much on light loaded services, but on medium-heavily loaded services, it's just rude and inconsiderate. Luckily due to I live in a part of FGW land that has no plug sockets and definitely no Wifi, we don't tend to see to many laptops, and if we do, they don't tend to stay out for long!

Intercity services are a completely different kettle of fish though, I understand if someone has work to do but there's no need to sigh or tut at people when they ask to sit in a seat they're rightfully allowed to!

 

[Techniquest]

Good golly gosh there's some misery on this thread! I think the one comment, aside from Paul's anecdote aboard a 185 - I've never met the gentleman, but have an image in my head of him quietly sitting there then turning into an Evil Manager-style guy for some reason! - that made me go for the Post Reply button quicker than anything else in the first 4 pages was one where someone complained about people who hammer away on their keyboards.

For what it's worth, I've tried typing with a feather touch but it's just not possible. Like walking slowly, unless my feet and legs are cramped up it's just not possible, and even in the dire circumstance of severe cramp I can't walk that slowly anyway! Clearly I'm not the only person in the universe with this sort of problem after all, which pleases me somewhat, but jeez what a reason to get miffed with a fellow passenger! :roll:

I got right proper miffed off with a chap who was on my commute to work the other week. Thankfully he got off in the first village 6 miles away, but all the way he wouldn't stop staring at me, apart from a short stare at someone else for a few seconds. Very creepy and made for a less than comfortable journey, fortunately I had my MP3 player on so it didn't bother me as much as it would have done.

Some of these examples of people getting miffed off with other passengers, well they're things I end up doing often too. Spreading out my notebook, moves book, laptop, NREA, ST Publications book, coffee, food, phone, laptop charger, phone charger ticket wallet and pens takes up a fair bit of room at the table seat. I will try to leave some of it in the bag and rotate what I've got on the table but sometimes this is not possible. I don't do it very often, more so if I've got a long journey ahead and got plenty of bookwork to do. Which incidentally I'm supposed to be doing now, not being on here...Most often it's on the last move of the day, or to an extent during the day on long moves. The latter definitely applied to the ALR adventures, I recall writing up the trip report into my A4 book at the time of the 2012 ALR was well behind at various points, I think I was up to 2.5 or 3 days behind with the writing it up on some of the days. Doesn't help when you end up on trains with no room to move, or on a lengthy series of quick leaps!

Anyway, one thing that gets on my wick very quickly? Sitting opposite couples who insist in swapping saliva for lengthy periods of time and/or being overly soppy with their conversations. Especially when it encompasses most of a long journey, you're tired, irritated and generally fed up with no other place to sit on the train!

 

[LowLevel]

I would be interested to know if since your ticket doesn't entitle you to a seat would any conductor try and charge you for putting your bag on a seat anyway which some people seem determined should happen? Ha ha.

I have known it happen - easier way to deal with incorrectly stowed or ridiculously oversized rammel is to threaten to remove it from the train (into lost property) as per the bye laws - refusal to carry only requiring the 'opinion' of a 'likelihood' from the train guard. As I may previously have mentioned, going back some years now I am aware of both bags and in one case a full sized bicycle being thrown out of moving trains by overzealous train crew, the bike following refusal to pay the charge and commenting 'what're you going to do' when such things were mandatory! Probably wouldn't get away with it now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone remember the days when trains had a sectionalised area of a certain carriage where prams, cycles, etc, could be stored for the journey ?

 

[Buttsy]

Does anyone remember the days when trains had a sectionalised area of a certain carriage where prams, cycles, etc, could be stored for the journey ?

Do you refer to what was know as the guard's compartmnet or van, depending if it were a full BG, a BFO/BSO or a DMU? Ahhhhhhhh, happy days...

 

[Wyvern]

I've seen a couple of mentions of Arriva Crosscountry. A unreserved seat can become reserved at any moment and you will get turfed out.

This because anyone with an open ticket can reserve a seat at the booking office or by mobile phone as late as ten minutes before departure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you refer to what was know as the guard's compartmnet or van, depending if it were a full BG, a BFO/BSO or a DMU? Ahhhhhhhh, happy days...

I most certainly do. Some of our younger forum members will wonder what those iconic train sections are...

 

[Buttsy]

I most certainly do. Some of our younger forum members will wonder what those iconic train sections are...

They were also useful for extra standing space on crammed services, like the one to Sheffield after the Doncaster open day in 1984... (I think it was 84, it was the year there was a Hull section on a South coast-NE cross-country service).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Her feet reach the seats on the other side of a 378? How tall was she?!

Maybe she was using the tip up seats? Sit on one, feet up on the third in the row?:roll: I've seen it happen a few times myself...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Ah! That answers my next question about the armrest

 

[Mark62]

I had the misfortune to travel on the 16.28 cross country train from Derby to Tamworth. I am 6ft 4ins and of slim built. I sat in an airline seats. Cross country seem to removed most of the tables, which I presume is done to pack as many passengers in as possible. My knees were touching the seat in front. It was impossible to stretch my legs out. It was like sitting in a straight jacket. The seats are shockingly narrow even for some slim like myself. In front of my there was a chap sat at a table seat. He was tall and medium build, he was not overweight and his bottom was hanging over the edge of the seat. Not because he was overweight but because the seat was too small
When the guard came round for the tickets I told him that the seats were too and it was disgusting to expect passengers to travel like this. He looked at me like I was bonkers. I suspect he isn't used to the cattle having opinions. Thankfully I got out 15 minutes later. In just that short space of time i had already developed back ache. My neck was stiff and my knees hurt from the inability to move my legs. This was after only 15 minutes. That train had come from Scotland and wouldn't arrive in Penzance for another six hours. It was one of those dreadful voyager DMU's. An upmarket pacer or a downmarket 101 from yesteryear. Passengers are paying the highest prices in Europe for train travel. I can't think of another country in Europe.that gets away with running long distance trains with such low standards of comfort. Last year I travelled around Hungary by train. It was a sheer joy to travel in proper carriages without them vibrating from underfloor engines. There was ample leg room and plenty of carriages on the train. Yes most of the trains are relatively slow, but so what, they are comfortable. Passengers even take off their shoes before they put their feet on the seats. A civilised country with one of the best integrated transport networks in the world. Budapests transport system is simply a joy. A 100 mile journey cost less than a fiver. It costs that to get from belper to derby. And that's around 10 miles. Before we congratulate ourselves on our rail system we need to look at how other countries do it and treat their passengers. The way our TOCs treat treat passengers in this country is bordering on criminal negligence. And all they do is count their profits.
So back to the discussion. Some passengers have no choice to take up two seats. It doesn't make them "fat" or rude etc, in the majority of cases it is because the straitjackets are too small. Oops. The smaller they make the seats, the bigger the profit.

 

[overtonchris]

Maybe she was using the tip up seats? Sit on one, feet up on the third in the row?:roll: I've seen it happen a few times myself...

Just picked this bit up!!! Yep was that!!! Sorry folks didn't word that one very well! Just taken a hundred 100 lines....and six of the best!

 

[Deerfold]

When the guard came round for the tickets I told him that the seats were too and it was disgusting to expect passengers to travel like this. He looked at me like I was bonkers. I suspect he isn't used to the cattle having opinions.

The seats were too what?

Perhaps the guard was surprised you thought they had any say in the quality of the trains used.

I'd agree that the trains are dreadful - Virgin's original plan of halving the trains to double the frequency and then lengthening them again was quite a good one - if the DfT hadn't scuppered the second part. The trains they got have very little space per person and almost no luggage space - they're one of the few trains my wife will drive to avoid having to use.

 

[158747]

Do you refer to what was know as the guard's compartmnet or van, depending if it were a full BG, a BFO/BSO or a DMU? Ahhhhhhhh, happy days...

I remember back in the good old days (1984) I travelled from Plymouth to Bristol with my motorbike which was placed in the guards van.

 

[Aldaniti]

I had the misfortune to travel on the 16.28 cross country train from Derby to Tamworth. I am 6ft 4ins and of slim built. I sat in an airline seats. Cross country seem to removed most of the tables, which I presume is done to pack as many passengers in as possible. My knees were touching the seat in front. It was impossible to stretch my legs out. It was like sitting in a straight jacket. The seats are shockingly narrow even for some slim like myself. In front of my there was a chap sat at a table seat. He was tall and medium build, he was not overweight and his bottom was hanging over the edge of the seat. Not because he was overweight but because the seat was too small
When the guard came round for the tickets I told him that the seats were too and it was disgusting to expect passengers to travel like this. He looked at me like I was bonkers. I suspect he isn't used to the cattle having opinions. Thankfully I got out 15 minutes later. In just that short space of time i had already developed back ache. My neck was stiff and my knees hurt from the inability to move my legs. This was after only 15 minutes. That train had come from Scotland and wouldn't arrive in Penzance for another six hours. It was one of those dreadful voyager DMU's. An upmarket pacer or a downmarket 101 from yesteryear. Passengers are paying the highest prices in Europe for train travel. I can't think of another country in Europe.that gets away with running long distance trains with such low standards of comfort. Last year I travelled around Hungary by train. It was a sheer joy to travel in proper carriages without them vibrating from underfloor engines. There was ample leg room and plenty of carriages on the train. Yes most of the trains are relatively slow, but so what, they are comfortable. Passengers even take off their shoes before they put their feet on the seats. A civilised country with one of the best integrated transport networks in the world. Budapests transport system is simply a joy. A 100 mile journey cost less than a fiver. It costs that to get from belper to derby. And that's around 10 miles. Before we congratulate ourselves on our rail system we need to look at how other countries do it and treat their passengers. The way our TOCs treat treat passengers in this country is bordering on criminal negligence. And all they do is count their profits.
So back to the discussion. Some passengers have no choice to take up two seats. It doesn't make them "fat" or rude etc, in the majority of cases it is because the straitjackets are too small. Oops. The smaller they make the seats, the bigger the profit.

Excellent post. I'm not alone.

The mistake you made was even contemplating using Cross Country. I have cause to travel from Lancashire to Cornwall three times a year. When the HST's were running I always undertook that journey by rail. It got a bit busy a various points but it was by and large a fairly pleasant trip, particularly when travelling first. Then the Voyagers replaced the HST's and I've driven there ever since. I don't particularly enjoy the drive but for me its far better than being crammed into a Cross Country train for hours.