I really don't think the punishment reflects the crime though.
Many perceive that failing to pay a fare that is only a couple of pounds means that there won;t be serious consequnces. That is an incorrect assumption!
Railway companies lose an awful lot of revenue through the non payments of fares, and it looks as though serious action is being taken by the industry to recoup some of that lost income.
Another issue raised is that were there no revenue protection present at LMS anybody in the same situation would not have had to buy a ticket.
Do you mean that people are only made to ticket if there are revenue staff at their origin station? That's clearly not the case, as many stations have no revenue staff at all, yet the majority of passengers manage to buy their ticket before boarding, either at the ticket office, via the machines or on the web.
Surely the guard could have inspected tickets during the journey of a 4/5 car train.
It's not always possible to do so, no. All that it needs is another problem needing to be dealt with, a long passenger enquiry or two, and the TM can't get through the train.
If my friend had been changing trains they would have more than likely encountered a guard and bought a ticket as they had originally intended. I have done it before in a similar situation, turned up for the COV-NUN and had 30 seconds to catch the train, during the journey (I know it is a single car) the guard has come down and happily sold me a ticket.
I am starting to read this as an 'it's everyone else's fault' approach. Sadly, the onus is on the passenger to purchase a ticket. No doubt the XC TM would also have been happy to sell a ticket, if they had managed to get through the train.
In these types of incident, even though there is no requirement to do so, it may be helpful; to try and find the TM on the XC train in order to prevent any unpleasantness at the station of arrival.
The rules are very black and white and it is great for those of us who are aware of it (i'm not saying ignorance to a rule renders it invalid) but many people still believe they are perfectly fine to buy on board- and why shouldn't they? If I had the choice right now between waiting an hour and risking not having a ticket I would happily hop on and seek the guard out. What happens when the guard is locked away in the rear cab?
This is where the sense of unfairness starts kicking in for me. There are too many different policies amongst all the TOC's. Some are perfectly happy to allow people to buy on board, and include discounted tickets in that, some will only offer undiscounted full price Anytime tickets, some will charge a penalty fare and others will officially or unofficailly try and charge an admin fee.
Ther eis no consistency at all, and things vary not only by TOC, but geographically too. I am not surprised that there is a lot of confusion, especailly as a minority of the public still think the trains are all run by British Rail!
As I've said before surely the railway should first seek the fare owed, refusal to pay that or repeat offence calls for a harsher punishment I agree, but a £4 or so fare not bought in advance suddenly they are expected to pay for what would be 20 journeys!
TOC's a re clearly trying to use the admin fee as a deterrent.
The penalty fare system does seem fare in these cases as a £20 slap on the wrist is deserved and the penalty/rules/expectations are very clear around stations.
But it isn't an effective deterrent to people who either deliberately avoid paying the fare, or only pay when challenged.
At what point does for example a casual user of the railways know that they are expected to buy in advance rather than from the guard? They could for example believe it operated like buses, the trams here have recently gone over to buy before you travel and they are making it abundantly clear with lots of posters whilst still providing you an opportunity to buy on board.
Everyone should be buying before boarding, except where there are no facilities to do so. The problem is that when people are travelling with a TOC that doesn't penalise this behaviour, it's natural to assume that there is no requirement to buy ahead of travelling, and that nothing will happen if you don't.
In fairness, though, in my area ATW have put posters all over the trains stating that passengers have to buy at the first opportunity, which includes on board the train if there were no facilities to do so at the station of boarding. I reckon, though, that most of the traveller son the trains never, ever, look at those posters!
Recommending to pay and then chase it up would in my eyes not work. Is it not an admission of guilt?
If it were me, I'd respond by apologising, saying I hadn't realised that there would be a problem buying on board with XC, and see what happens next.
If this were me and I had the money to take this to court- I think I would. Surely some sort of improvement is needed to prevent this happening to casual travelers?
I wouldn't recommend that solution!
Whilst I do appreciate your advice, without coming across offensive some are sounding as if you are on a high horse. Not everybody knows the rules, and as many have said time and time again they can be very confusing to interpret. I've spoken to a TOC and they were unsure if administrative fees could be applied- what does that say?
Northern Rail have been asking for money not to prosecute for a while now, seemingly with impunity.
